Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

It's more prevalent everywhere there are women with some spending power. Europe, America, Latin America, Asia, Armenia. And what kind of idiot overspends as a backlash?

You misunderstood. I meant ‘overspending’ would harm themselves and their family in the first place.

Sorry, which world are you living in? Here is a google search for you

By the way, your hypocrisy is so apparent. First you claim that you don't aim to paint men in a negative light, then state that men are obviously much more likely to molest. Whatever the actual percentage, it's a very very small figure in the population. Certainly much much smaller than the number of husbands falsely accused of molesting their children during custody battles.

Relax. I express my thoughts irrespective of the person's gender. When it comes to women I have and would continue to criticize them too (I just did in this thread) Any irresponsible, harmful act should be condemned. There certainly are men who have been falsely accused of it (I know one of them) and I didn't say there are no female molesters but chances of males engaging in such acts have proven to be higher. Try finding the statistics for men too.

Really? You mean women are patient? Like how when a woman is distress she lashes out then when reality hits, she cries and apologizes? If women are such good parents, why is it that single mother households constantly produce delinquent children.

Here are some statistics showing exactly how patient, and understanding parents women are.



So what does this mean?



Wow, statistics don't lie. Woman are obviously the safest possible place for children. Those molesting fathers should never be allowed to be close to kids.


You mean very few fields where very few women have proven to be competent.
Then there are very many fields where women have proven to be completely incompetent, such as Literature, Social Sciences, Art, Education. Again, remove the emphasis on women. Women should start considering themselves as people, not god's gift to man kind. When women lose their arrogance, things might work out much better

I seriously wonder who you are interacting with? Whatever I say doesn't count for you, world is not the black and white you have painted for yourself: women being unstable, impatient, unintelligent (at least less than men), paralyzed, abusive, arrogant beings and men being the all-time victims. Typical feminist approach.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

This may be more prevalent in America. When I look around I notice both men and women (of younger generations) who spend irresponsibly. Even if women overspend, it will be a backlash against themselves and their husbands.

It's more prevalent everywhere there are women with some spending power. Europe, America, Latin America, Asia, Armenia. And what kind of idiot overspends as a backlash?

I neither adhere to the feminist ideology nor do I like them painting men in a negative light and constantly whining.

No, you want privilege when it's hard, and equality when it's not.

But in the given case, it is not even needed to look at the statistics. Looking around, we know many many more male molesters than females.

Sorry, which world are you living in? Here is a google search for you

By the way, your hypocrisy is so apparent. First you claim that you don't aim to paint men in a negative light, then state that men are obviously much more likely to molest. Whatever the actual percentage, it's a very very small figure in the population. Certainly much much smaller than the number of husbands falsely accused of molesting their children during custody battles.

No, they complete each other. But women have shown/proved to be more patient, more attentive towards their kids and their caprices. Fathers do the parenting in their own unique/different way.

Really? You mean women are patient? Like how when a woman is distress she lashes out then when reality hits, she cries and apologizes? If women are such good parents, why is it that single mother households constantly produce delinquent children.

Here are some statistics showing exactly how patient, and understanding parents women are.

40% of mothers reported that they had interfered with the fathers visitation to punish their ex-spouse.
["Frequency of Visitation" by Sanford Braver, American Journal of Orthopsychiatry]

50% of mothers see no value in the fathers continued contact with his children.
["Surviving the Breakup" by Joan Berlin Kelly]

63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes.
[U. S. D.H.H.S. Bureau of the Census]

90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes.
85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes.
[Center for Disease Control]

80% of rapist motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes.
[Criminal Justice and Behavior, Vol. 14 p. 403-26]

71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes.
[National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools]

70% of juveniles in state operated institutions come from fatherless homes
[U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept., 1988]

85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home.
[Fulton County Georgia Jail Populations and Texas Dept. of Corrections, 1992]

So what does this mean?

What does this mean? Children from fatherless homes are:

4.6 times more likely to commit suicide,

6.6 times to become teenaged mothers (if they are girls, of course),
24.3 times more likely to run away,
15.3 times more likely to have behavioral disorders,
6.3 times more likely to be in a state-operated institutions,
10.8 times more likely to commit rape,
6.6 times more likely to drop out of school,
15.3 times more likely to end up in prison while a teenager.
(The calculation of the relative risks shown in the preceding list is based on 27% of children being in the care of single mothers.)

and ? compared to children who are in the care of two biological, married parents ? children who are in the care of single mothers are:

33 times more likely to be seriously abused (so that they will require medical attention), and
73 times more likely to be killed.

["Marriage: The Safest Place for Women and Children", by Patrick F. xxxan and Kirk A. Johnson, Ph.D. Backgrounder #1535.]

Wow, statistics don't lie. Woman are obviously the safest possible place for children. Those molesting fathers should never be allowed to be close to kids.

I can't wholly agree. In engineering, yea but I can name many fields where women have proved to be more competent.

You mean very few fields where very few women have proven to be competent.
Then there are very many fields where women have proven to be completely incompetent, such as Literature, Social Sciences, Art, Education.

I was speaking about being/working under equal conditions. Maybe some would demand such a thing but I do not and I don't think it's fair.

Nobody lives in an ideal world. Conditions are never equal. Under equal conditions employers pay the exact same amount. The difference is, women often don't work extra hours, take more time off but still claim they do the same work if not better. That's not equal conditions.

Okay, what do you suggest? How should women be treated so the balance would be preserved?

Again, remove the emphasis on women. Women should start considering themselves as people, not god's gift to man kind. When women lose their arrogance, things might work out much better.

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Let's look at facts. Walk into any department store and look around. 80% of the merchandise is tailored towards women. In department stores with more than one floor, the first floor is almost entirely tailored toward women.
I was in a Macy's in Chicago, where the first 7 floors were all woman's products. Man's and children department was on the last floor.
I think it's obvious who spends more (or rather for whom is spent more).

This may be more prevalent in America. When I look around I notice both men and women (of younger generations) who spend irresponsibly. Even if women overspend, it will be a backlash against themselves and their husbands.

40 years of feminist propaganda and everyone is convinced that men are vile and evil. Statistics don't indicate that men are any more likely to commit these acts than women.

I neither adhere to the feminist ideology nor do I like them painting men in a negative light and constantly whining.
But in the given case, it is not even needed to look at the statistics. Looking around, we know many many more male molesters than females.

We're not talking about switching roles here. Nor are we talking about a woman with children. Let's take children out of the equation for a second. Without children, why should a woman be considered biologically unfit for mining?
Plus, are you implying that mothers are better parents than fathers?

No, they complete each other. But women have shown/proved to be more patient, more attentive towards their kids and their caprices. Fathers do the parenting in their own unique/different way.

You do know that children from single mother households are much more likely to be delinquent than children from single father households.

I don't say the opposite is true but by such baseless statements you look like those feminists you criticize. Where is the proof?

If you mean science and engineering, then men are much smarter. In the last 40 years when women had all sorts of freedoms to pursue whatever careers they wanted, most engineers, mathematicians, inventors, etc are all men.

I can't wholly agree. In engineering, yea but I can name many fields where women have proved to be more competent.

Right, you are as good as your male colleagues, so you should get the same rewards. But, your are biologically different, so you should get some special treatment when you need it. Meaning, if you have children and cannot put 60 hours a week, and only put 30 hours, you should still get that promotion since you do as good a job as your male colleagues, even if you only work half as much.

I was speaking about being/working under equal conditions. Maybe some would demand such a thing but I do not and I don't think it's fair.

As long as women say "we do the same if not better work, so we deserve the same rights",

How is this statement unjust? Men and women working under equal conditions should earn the same.

but "we are biologically different so we need to be treated differently (better)" there can never be balance.

Okay, what do you suggest? How should women be treated so the balance would be preserved?

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

I know quite a lot of young men (around my age) who can't deal with money and spend much more than women, again I really don't know where you got that from? Maybe that's the way it is in America?

Let's look at facts. Walk into any department store and look around. 80% of the merchandise is tailored towards women. In department stores with more than one floor, the first floor is almost entirely tailored toward women.
I was in a Macy's in Chicago, where the first 7 floors were all woman's products. Man's and children department was on the last floor.
I think it's obvious who spends more (or rather for whom is spent more).

why do you think it's harder? Could it be that men in general tend to be more involved in similar acts? Maybe we should look at the statistics...

40 years of feminist propaganda and everyone is convinced that men are vile and evil. Statistics don't indicate that men are any more likely to commit these acts than women.

Would you send your daughter to work in a mine? We would adapt but at what cost?

I wouldn't send my son nor my daughter to work in a mine. Let's not use empathy in our discussions, it adds a bias.

Even if we suppose the woman goes to work in a mine, would you men take care of the children with patience, would you breastfeed the infant (or you'd take the baby to the mine ), would you help them later with their schoolwork or...? The list can go on...

We're not talking about switching roles here. Nor are we talking about a woman with children. Let's take children out of the equation for a second. Without children, why should a woman be considered biologically unfit for mining?
Plus, are you implying that mothers are better parents than fathers?
You do know that children from single mother households are much more likely to be delinquent than children from single father households.

No, it's not always nature dictating but for women to get 'privileges' (I don't like this word) but more often that not it is.

Like it or not, getting something just because one's a woman is getting privilege. Most women have been spoiled their whole life (cute ones at least). They expect to get things. Most mothers tell their sons they have to be nice to girls and treat them well. Nurture or Nature?

That was not how I said exactly. But do you think women are inferior intellectually?

If you mean science and engineering, then men are much smarter. In the last 40 years when women had all sorts of freedoms to pursue whatever careers they wanted, most engineers, mathematicians, inventors, etc are all men.

However, if you mean social intelligence, then an average woman is far smarter than an average man. I mean, women get men take care of them, take them shopping, spoil them, fight their battles, and men are still convinced they are better off than women. Who's the smarter one?

If I spend as much time and do the job as well as my male colleagues or sometimes even better than them, why shouldn't I have the same rights (in the realm we're talking about)?

Right, you are as good as your male colleagues, so you should get the same rewards. But, your are biologically different, so you should get some special treatment when you need it. Meaning, if you have children and cannot put 60 hours a week, and only put 30 hours, you should still get that promotion since you do as good a job as your male colleagues, even if you only work half as much.

I see what you mean but can you say/show how women should be treated so my argument would not be 'flawed' and the 'balance' would be preserved?

As long as women say "we do the same if not better work, so we deserve the same rights", but "we are biologically different so we need to be treated differently (better)" there can never be balance.

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

It's not about corruption. It's about consumerism. Women spend more, remove the husband, but still force him to work. She'll overspend, but he can't do anything about it.

I know quite a lot of young men (around my age) who can't deal with money and spend much more than women, again I really don't know where you got that from? Maybe that's the way it is in America?

Sure, but it would be kind of hard for a man to claim his wife beat him just so she can spend some time in jail while he files for a restraining order on her. Then, during the divorce case, use the allegations to win custody (A restraining order is the first thing most divorce lawyers recommend). A man would also have a hard time convincing anyone that his wife molested his children and so he should get custody (this happens often as well).

None of the allegations have to be substantiated, and no woman ever gets charged with any crime for using false allegations to win custody. It would be much harder for a man to do the same, because no custody-judge will believe him.

why do you think it's harder? Could it be that men in general tend to be more involved in similar acts? Maybe we should look at the statistics...

A top male athlete will always outdo a top female athlete; however, an average female athlete will always outdo an average male (who's not an athlete). It doesn't take an athlete to work in a coal mine, and most women will be able to adapt to the mine just as well as men.

Would you send your daughter to work in a mine? We would adapt but at what cost?
Even if we suppose the woman goes to work in a mine, would you men take care of the children with patience, would you breastfeed the infant (or you'd take the baby to the mine ), would you help them later with their schoolwork or...? The list can go on...

So, you're claiming that women should get privilege because nature intended it, and men should give privilege because nature intends this as well?

No, it's not always nature dictating but for women to get 'privileges' (I don't like this word) but more often that not it is.

So, women are not 'Inferior', but they should still get privilege because they are 'different'. Does this make sense to you? It's double-talk.

That was not how I said exactly. But do you think women are inferior intellectually?

Are you sure? Think hard. Have you ever taken advantage of being biologically different (but not 'inferior') and accepted privilege? And have you ever expected to be have the same rights as your male co-workers because as a woman you are not in any way 'inferior' to a man?

If I spend as much time and do the job as well as my male colleagues or sometimes even better than them, why shouldn't I have the same rights (in the realm we're talking about)?

Sometimes I'm completely confused as to how so many women, who are otherwise intelligent, fail to see the flaw in such reasoning? I mean you say you do not condone it, yet claim that women should get privilege but still be treated equal to men.

I see what you mean but can you say/show how women should be treated so my argument would not be 'flawed' and the 'balance' would be preserved?

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

I know.. this is not fair at all... but that�s how it works in the west, especially in America. The American law in itself is corrupt.

It's not about corruption. It's about consumerism. Women spend more, remove the husband, but still force him to work. She'll overspend, but he can't do anything about it.

Again in such cases like custody battles or divorce, each case is unique and cannot be resumed to a general statement saying 'men or women are victims'...

Sure, but it would be kind of hard for a man to claim his wife beat him just so she can spend some time in jail while he files for a restraining order on her. Then, during the divorce case, use the allegations to win custody (A restraining order is the first thing most divorce lawyers recommend). A man would also have a hard time convincing anyone that his wife molested his children and so he should get custody (this happens often as well).

None of the allegations have to be substantiated, and no woman ever gets charged with any crime for using false allegations to win custody. It would be much harder for a man to do the same, because no custody-judge will believe him.

Note that even in sports, women do not compete with men. A female footballer can in no way reach the functionality of her male counterpart... the same would apply to a miner, I can certainly do it but would it be the same job as a man does?

A top male athlete will always outdo a top female athlete; however, an average female athlete will always outdo an average male (who's not an athlete). It doesn't take an athlete to work in a coal mine, and most women will be able to adapt to the mine just as well as men.

Women have babies, isn�t it a risk?
What are the chances that an average man (especially those living in the West) would seriously risk his life? I mean how many men are miners or go to war or...?

The chances that an average man would seriously risk his life are much much higher than the chances that an average woman would.

What you call �privileges� are natural (for the reasons I have explained), they have always existed to my knowledge.

So, you're claiming that women should get privilege because nature intended it, and men should give privilege because nature intends this as well?

'Inferior' in what? biological differences do not result in an intellectual deficiency or maybe you think so?

So, women are not 'Inferior', but they should still get privilege because they are 'different'. Does this make sense to you? It's double-talk.

I do not condone it. In my view some men need the protection as well.

Are you sure? Think hard. Have you ever taken advantage of being biologically different (but not 'inferior') and accepted privilege? And have you ever expected to be have the same rights as your male co-workers because as a woman you are not in any way 'inferior' to a man?

Sometimes I'm completely confused as to how so many women, who are otherwise intelligent, fail to see the flaw in such reasoning? I mean you say you do not condone it, yet claim that women should get privilege but still be treated equal to men.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

levon and his friends at the dinner table...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXq0Ns69C8s&t=6m20s

(chicken pieces seen in the video are courtesy of KFC)

ahh, that was funny.

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Because one can choose who to trust, but often times love just happens.
But I'm not a realist. I take too many risks and act on impulse more than I should. I aim for the most I can do, then burn out. It's fun that way.

Ah, OK, I didn't think of that.

You mean treated that way? Man is most productive when he has a clear purpose. For as long as civilization has existed, for most men that has been wife and children, that's why a husband was actually respected back then. Now, governments have found better ways to accomplish the same thing: encourage divorce, give custody to the mom, then impose criminal charges if the man doesn't pay up. It's worth nothing that a much larger percentage of women default on child-support payments, but a much larger percentage of men get punished for the same deed.

I know.. this is not fair at all... but that’s how it works in the west, especially in America. The American law in itself is corrupt. Again in such cases like custody battles or divorce, each case is unique and cannot be resumed to a general statement saying 'men or women are victims'...

Are you sure? So then how is it that women can be in sports, but not in dangerous occupations? If a woman can compete in "Discus", she can work in a coal mine. It's true that an average man can become much stronger than an average woman; however, an average woman can still manage in a coal mine.

Women are exempt, because most women would never risk their lives for money. It's far easier to find a guy to take the risks.

Note that even in sports, women do not compete with men. A female footballer can in no way reach the functionality of her male counterpart... the same would apply to a miner, I can certainly do it but would it be the same job as a man does?
Women have babies, isn’t it a risk?
What are the chances that an average man (especially those living in the West) would seriously risk his life? I mean how many men are miners or go to war or...?

Some century and a half ago, in this country (US) women were considered to have the mind of a child, as such, her word was half as credible in court, and she usually received much lighter sentences than a man would for the same crime. So, in return for being thought of as "inferior" women received all sorts of privileges.

What you call ‘privileges’ are natural (for the reasons I have explained), they have always existed to my knowledge.

Now, women still want all the privileges, but want to be thought of as "equals." If a woman should be privileged because of "biological differences", then it's completely practical to consider her "inferior" because of these same "biological differences."

'Inferior' in what? biological differences do not result in an intellectual deficiency or maybe you think so?

It's one or the other, so if you ask for "privileges", be prepared to be "inferior." But, this double-speak is the best weapon of feminists, i.e.
"women are strong and independent, they need to fill more top positions", but
"women are victims, they need special protection from the government."

I do not condone it. In my view some men need the protection as well.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

How can you love someone you don't trust? If I'm not mistaken you're being a realist, the kind of person who is not stuck in the moment and leaves a little window open for the 'ifs', right?

Because one can choose who to trust, but often times love just happens.
But I'm not a realist. I take too many risks and act on impulse more than I should. I aim for the most I can do, then burn out. It's fun that way.

Why should they be treated in those particular ways? Aren't there other methods/things we can do?

You mean treated that way? Man is most productive when he has a clear purpose. For as long as civilization has existed, for most men that has been wife and children, that's why a husband was actually respected back then. Now, governments have found better ways to accomplish the same thing: encourage divorce, give custody to the mom, then impose criminal charges if the man doesn't pay up. It's worth nothing that a much larger percentage of women default on child-support payments, but a much larger percentage of men get punished for the same deed.

'Weaker' in what sense? The dangerous occupations cannot be handled properly by most women not because the society exempted them but due to their special physical, psychological or/and biological structure. On the other hand, there are occupations women can do better than men.

Are you sure? So then how is it that women can be in sports, but not in dangerous occupations? If a woman can compete in "Discus", she can work in a coal mine. It's true that an average man can become much stronger than an average woman; however, an average woman can still manage in a coal mine.

Women are exempt, because most women would never risk their lives for money. It's far easier to find a guy to take the risks.

Vaaay Levon, can you give some real-life examples please? Do you know women who cause trouble at the dinner table?

Some century and a half ago, in this country (US) women were considered to have the mind of a child, as such, her word was half as credible in court, and she usually received much lighter sentences than a man would for the same crime. So, in return for being thought of as "inferior" women received all sorts of privileges.

Now, women still want all the privileges, but want to be thought of as "equals." If a woman should be privileged because of "biological differences", then it's completely practical to consider her "inferior" because of these same "biological differences."

It's one or the other, so if you ask for "privileges", be prepared to be "inferior." But, this double-speak is the best weapon of feminists, i.e.
"women are strong and independent, they need to fill more top positions", but
"women are victims, they need special protection from the government."

It's +2 for women, and -2 for men, yet most men and all women agree that "women are victims, they need more privilege", and "women are strong and independent they can handle everything thrown at them"

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

that, a christian should know...

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...13&version=NIV

7 Is the most important.