Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Levon that was a long winded responce but the statement "Yes, no one disagrees that women play an important role in our society. They have the important role of being a wife and a mother, which is necessary for a society to progress. Without mothers there would be no new offspring and society will decay. As far as defending our homeland, yes, there have been some women who have done so, but they are the exception and not the rule." betrays your sexist nature. Basicly your saying women can do some things once in a while but are really only good for one thing-well ok two things according to you. That is still very hetamnats to say the least. There are so many women that can burry guys like you with their intellect that you will be left standing there with a long drewl hanging out of your mouth not knowing what to say. Men who have intellect, are not threatened by smart women just guys like you feel women need to be kept under control.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

There are so many women that can burry guys like you with their intellect that you will be left standing there with a long drewl hanging out of your mouth not knowing what to say. Men who have intellect, are not threatened by smart women just guys like you feel women need to be kept under control.

Thanks for your response Haykakan. Frankly, part of being a man is letting go of the attachment one feels to his mother and stop seeking approval from women. I've been given my intellect by God, and he so may chose to place me in front of another of superior intellect, be it male or female. That wouldn't phase me one bit.

I believe what I've said based on my experiences. I couldn't give a damn if some women is smarter than I am. For that matter, I couldn't give a damn if some man is smarter than I am. I am neither the smartest, the wealthiest, nor the most handsome man alive; however, that cannot stop me from pushing through life. I hustled when I was young and poor, and I hustle now. Life is too short and waits for no one to sit around and contemplate whether someone somewhere is more intelligent than he.

But thanks for reminding me that women aren't the only ones that try to make a point by inflicting personal attacks. Great job, try better though.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Ashot jan, axpers. I've merely responded to what you posted. Forgive me if I have misunderstood you; however, you forget to realize there is no shortage of opportunities for women in Armenia as there are for men. Everyone has to hustle through life, not just women. However, our society, the way it stands right now, cannot create a utopia of which you speak in a healthy way. It will lead to chaos.

Look at Sweden. Feminists there proposed a "man tax"
Look at Israel. There already IS a man tax, the equivalent of $400 per year. That's how much it costs to be a man in Israel. On the other hand, women get $400 per year in tax-cats. That's the privilege of being a woman in Israel.

Theories are good, but before you slam my ideas down, point me to a healthy society that has successfully eliminated the traditional male and female roles. I don't know of any, but please, do point me to one.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong in your saying that mothers create macho man. My mother never stopped giving me advice about women that would guarantee my virginity till my death. She tried to raise me to be the nicest most respectful boy around. The problem is I wanted to be grow up to be a man and not a boy. And a man cannot concern himself with the opinions of women around him. He leads, and women follow not the other way around. But hey, the modern definition of man is so convoluted that any one could pass for it, so why try right?

Also, most of the time girls WANT to play with barbie dolls, and boys WANT to play with action figures. Little boys get in fights when they are 3 years old, but little girls usually don't. I think genetic differences between men and women are so large that no matter how hard society tries, they will always be happiest in their traditional roles.

But what do I know. I am, as Haykakan pointed out, just a sexist bigot who is intimidated by intelligent women.

^
You obviously didn't understand me. But it's okay, I've read such quantity of nonsense all around I don't care anymore. I am not attacking anybody, I respect what people have to say, but I just won't shut up to some people here saying some of the things I've read. Yet again, they have the right to talk and if they want to F me...do it I will be happy to read it.

The only thing I am saying is that men and women should be equal and given the same opportunities to find their way in life, and no one can say whether that is right or wrong or what would it bring to society, we don't know that, what you say it's just mere speculations. If you believe we have a solid example by judging how it has turned out so far, then you are wrong. In order to judge what it would happen we would need centuries.

But yet again what you say is right, in order to be equal both men and women have to give up some things that are part of our millenarian society, and of course both will not be willing to do such things, so any chance to get "equality" in the entire sense of the word is very unlikely...but that does not mean that we cannot start by something or at least do some change.

I don't say we don't need women to be mothers and raise children, that's important for our society...but men can do as well. In fact, many men do as well. In the raising of the children, women commit a lot of mistakes, great part of men being such sexists and "machos" is because of the women's fault. Since we are children, specially if you have a sister, you will see how a mother treats the boy and the girl differently...since they are children, the female figure of the house will brainwash the girl so that she will play with Barbies (or dolls in any case) and be cute and girly, and while the boy has to play with trucks and action figures and be tough. The girls must learn how to cook, how to wash the dishes, you understand what I am saying? If the girl goes the other way around she's a 'tomboy' and if the boy goes the other way around he's 'nancy, and it doesn't necessarily has to be like that. Women are expected to marry and become mothers, and if they don't they are consider by everybody and by themselves they have not fulfilled their paper as women. This is how we are all raised up, and this is why society doesn't changes, we are brought up with wrong ideas, and in some cases prejudices, since childhood so what can we expect to be when we grow up?

Where I live we have a saying: (Spanish) "Machismo se escribe con M de Mujer" ("Machismo is written with M of Women" "Mujer" = "Women", I know it makes not a lot of sense when translated but the idea is there.)

And for your information I didn't have a "liberal-influenced Western education", I live in Ecuador, which geographically it's in the West hemisphere, but in the education you get is not liberal at all, it's very rooted to traditions and centenary customs, it resembles points of Armenian tradition when referring to men and women, saving the differences of course, not to mention it is also a very poor country.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Its funny that you admit women can be smarter then you but you still insist that their place is in a limited setting. Here is another one of your brillient assesments "See, the idea of respect is something invented by man, and thus man himself understands it much better than a woman. To a woman respect is something that revolves around her and her group of women. Not universal, but completely local to her surroundings. You can't use the same criteria for respect as hers are completely different from yours, and each woman will have different criteria" Here you imply women are incapable of comprehending respect the way men do which is the "right way" according to you. You burry yourself, there is no need for me or others to do it.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Its funny that you admit women can be smarter then you but you still insist that their place is in a limited setting. Here is another one of your brillient assesments "See, the idea of respect is something invented by man, and thus man himself understands it much better than a woman. To a woman respect is something that revolves around her and her group of women. Not universal, but completely local to her surroundings. You can't use the same criteria for respect as hers are completely different from yours, and each woman will have different criteria" Here you imply women are incapable of comprehending respect the way men do which is the "right way" according to you. You burry yourself, there is no need for me or others to do it.

Sorry to pludge your gravy train, but I'm merely rephrasing what has been said by several philosophers throughout history.

As I am not god and all knowing, I can only assume that there are people more intelligent than I; however, having intelligence is not the same as having the intellectual capacity to appreciate what respect is. It's a male concept created to be applied towards men. For men it's universal, for women its local. Please don't copy parts of my posts and take them out of context.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

I didnt take anything out of context. Now your saying women lack intellectual capacity. Just let me know when you run out of feet to put in your mouth. Being a philosopher doesnt mean anything, plenty philosophers have said both smart and dumb things but it takes intellect to distinguish the two.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Again, you're resorting to personal attacks. If you're going to argue with me please refrain from personal attacks, it's not a healthy communication method.

The existence of few women on par with men does not mean all women can meet the criteria. Social customs have been established for a reason. Before civilization there were no male and female values. There is a reason why things progressed the way they did. If men and women were truly equal then there would have been at least a few civilizations where women held more power than men.


And I'm assuming that you consider yourself on another intellectual level compared to me since you have so proudly proclaimed that it takes intellect to distinguish smart from dumb, and if I get the drift, you are implying that my ideas are dumb, therefore yours are smart.
Great way to start and end a discussion.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Come on guys, let's not make this a man vs. woman thing, we know that both are very capable of learning anything and accomplishing things when they put their minds to it. We (Armenians) also want the best for both our sons and daughters. The topic is about how Armenian women can be an asset in building a strong foundation that will help the country grow and prosper. Let's leave the western corruption out of this and build our own little utopia. So far the only female voice in the thread has been Siggie, I encourage any others to speak their mind since it is our future that we're discussing.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Again, you're resorting to personal attacks. If you're going to argue with me please refrain from personal attacks, it's not a healthy communication method.

The existence of few women on par with men does not mean all women can meet the criteria. Social customs have been established for a reason. Before civilization there were no male and female values. There is a reason why things progressed the way they did. If men and women were truly equal then there would have been at least a few civilizations where women held more power than men.


And I'm assuming that you consider yourself on another intellectual level compared to me since you have so proudly proclaimed that it takes intellect to distinguish smart from dumb, and if I get the drift, you are implying that my ideas are dumb, therefore yours are smart.
Great way to start and end a discussion.

I guess you didnt know so i will inform you. There have been civilizations based on matriarchy instead of patriarchy. There have been civilizations where women had more power. I am implying some of your ideas are dumb but that doesnt make me smart nor dumb. Men and women obviously are not truely equal, we have slight differences due to upbringing and a little due to genetics but non of this renders women incapable of thinking and doing things men do some do them even better. I take offence with you because you imply women are incapable, you state only a few women can actually do usefull things besides their traditional womenly duties. I know this not to be true and i can give lots of examples. I am mad at you and the other sexists here because of the sahmanapagutyun-closed midedness you display twords the subject despite living in a world full of proof that women can indeed compete with men on almost all levels given the opportunity. I will keep attacking your and other peoples ideas when they are based on dim witted ignorence which is on full display today. Chances are you wouldnt be here if foreighners were as racist as some of you are and shame on the women in this forum for standing by and doing nothing while being degraded into nothingness.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Uhm... haven't we been living under a matriarchy since like 1952?