Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Nope i know for a fact we havent caus neither you nor i were around in 1952

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Nope i know for a fact we havent caus neither you nor i were around in 1952

I meant the Queen of England... I know the USA isn't part of her majesty's umbrella but the UK and the US are like siamese twins.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Sorry to pludge your gravy train, but I'm merely rephrasing what has been said by several philosophers throughout history.

As I am not god and all knowing, I can only assume that there are people more intelligent than I; however, having intelligence is not the same as having the intellectual capacity to appreciate what respect is. It's a male concept created to be applied towards men. For men it's universal, for women its local. Please don't copy parts of my posts and take them out of context.

Actually, society's view of women has always changed, read carefully, some even thought women possesed higher intellect, and so far many a time this has been proven correct, there have been amazing female rulers, Hapshetsut, Catherine the Great, Nefertiti, how come these women ruled so well if women are these useless idiots.

Why this hatred of the female gender from people, surely as men we should stand in astonishment of beautiful, intelligent women, particularly if they are wise and able as well, it should add to our attractions. I don't want to spend my life with a woman that barely has a brain, sex is one thing, but I want someone who can rationally think and tell me when I am being irrational as well, I want someone with a logical working mind, otherwise you just marry a fuktoy and a maid.

If a woman excels at being a doctor, an actress or a worker, why should she be held back, because of false beliefs through cultural hypnosis?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Ugh... what you want is irrelevant to the future of the Armenian nation. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Haykakan, why don't you be more specific with your examples. You can take offense at me as much as you want. I don't give a damn.

The traditional view of women is as important to a healthy society as the traditional male role. You mix them up and you get the f'd up youth of America. Your post seems to imply that the traditional roles of women are so incredibly degrading that women should strive to enter areas of traditional male influence, because that's the only way they can feel useful.

I guess when I asked you to stop the personal insults it didn't get through your feminized skull. Besides calling me sexist again, your post implies that I'm a racist, and that's just too far. You're acting like a male feminist that hates the fact that he was born male. Just chop it off, will ya, and be happy with yourself and your gender. The reason this country wants me here is because it is lacking in educated people who can perform tasks most Americans shy away from. Given similar opportunities in Armenia, I'll say goodbye to this sh*t-hole as fast as a pretty girl says goodbye to a "nice guy".

You can create your social utopia outside of MY homeland. My uncle died in the war effort, my dad got wounded, my friend grew up without a father and still grew up a man (because his mom decided that the traditional female role of a mother was more important than crappy idealism and his uncle decided that the traditional male role of a provider was more important than crappy idealism so he didn't let his sister work, instead worked multiple jobs to support two families), and I saw many a veteran who had lost his legs and pretty Diaspora girls with Gucci bags would walk by and laugh at his misfortunes. Armenia is MY homeland. Go create your magical elf infested utopia where women are men, men are non-existent and brown-nosing women is the absolute necessity (and please, be more specific with the examples you bring up because any dumb-ass can create propaganda, just look at the Azeris).

Have fun there and let me know how it worked out. Oh, and please, don't stop with your personal insults, they really bring out fun times.

[gegev]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

I agree with your points Levon. Nothing left to talk about. Every unnatural behavior will be eradicated by nature – naturally: but it takes some time.

[levon]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

It takes brains to make a good wife and mother. You guys speak as though women in Armenia are uneducated, oppressed weaklings who are not allowed to do anything. How wrong you are. Stupid women don't make good wives, and they make terrible mothers.

Men lead, women follow and lean on men. That's what they want no matter how much you try to push them forward. Given the opportunity almost all women would chose to be a wife and mother (so long as her husband is well-endowed with money). Why else do you think early feminists emphasized that women should not be able to chose between homemaking and working as too many women will chose the former. Women want opportunities without the burdens, the rights without the responsibilities, they want privilege and equality.

Here is a little metaphor your all of you champions of the female cause.

He has a wife and he seems happy. Sometimes she complains that she hasn't enough to do at home, after all, they have yet to have kids, and frozen dinners don't take long to cook. One day he decides to surprise her and starts to give her 200$ in weekly spending money so she can go and do whatever she wants. She is happy. She thanks him every time for the first few months, then after that she stays quite. One day she decides to get a job. He thinks its a great idea, as it would benefit the family finances and take some of the stress from his shoulders. The second she starts working she demands that he do half the housework because working AND homemaking is too much for her, and he has to help her as well. He is rational, thinks about it and decides it's very fair. Why shouldn't he help out with housework, after all she'll be contributing to the family income so it's the right thing to do.
She gets a job, but to his surprise starts spending on herself. After all, the way she sees it, she worked for it, so it's her money. He's still doing half the housework, but the stress of money-stretching is still there. After a few months he gets frustrated with her and asks her to contribute some of her earnings into the family savings account.
She gets angry and rants "Why, it's my money, why should I share it with you, you have a job, you get money as well. Do you know how hard I have to work for my money. I want to treat myself."
He gets frustrated, but says nothing. Instead, he decides to stop giving her money weekly, as she now has a job.
The second he stops, she comes at him concerned and asks "Honey, is everything OK with our finances, I noticed you didn't give me my $200."
He says "Everything's fine, I just decides that since you just have a job and your own money, the $200 a month would do better in a savings account instead."
She grunts, complains, but says nothing more. A few weeks go by and she starts to miss the money she used to get. It just doesn't feel as good when she has to spend more of the money that SHE had earned.
So goes to him and out of nowhere explodes on her husband "You don't appreciate me enough, after all I do for you, you don't even want to treat me. Is that how much you care about me?"
Her husband responds "But I pay the mortgage, the car loan. I pay for our food, and all other costs associated with living. Isn't that enough?"
She responds "No, you're supposed to do that anyway, you're a man. I'm your wife, you're supposed to treat me sometimes?" It's a losing battle.


The moral of the story is rights come AFTER responsibilities. One must abandon all privilege to ask for rights, and rights cannot be granted until responsibilities associated with those rights are guaranteed to be performed.

If you truly want equality, then do everyone a favor and ask and convince every woman to give up the privileges traditional afforded to women. See how many of them say yes to that. Then, and only then start speaking about rights, as when one is not accustomed to privilege, one can start accepting responsibilities and asking for rights.

[Hye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

hi to all


reading the post posted by levon in page 3 saturday responding to ashod I understood what he is trying to say and I think Haykakan and Ashot should go and read tthat post carefully. As far as I understand and Levon please correct me if Im wrong you are critisizing the western society fo the way women are presented and given rights to her how women and the famisits movement taking the equality little bit too far to the point the balance is tilting towards women. He is just saying how things are right now and I agree with him. If we look at only the western society we will see that women really don't want equality they want more prevelages. In my opinon women if not now are getting more and more so called "rights" on men through lobbying and passing laws that make them stronger in court society I can give you a lot of examples how. Although there might be some examples where the opposite is true but in general there is a tendancy for the system to shift pro-women after it was pro-men for centuries.

in this sense I completely agree with you Levon women are organised and will get the upper hand but I don't think for so long because in the future we will see men not allowing that to the point the system will balance itself.

I would like to point out just for information in the beginning of civilisation it was matriarchal society. This is known scientific facts and if you go and read and analyse Gilgamesh you will come accross this. then little by little it became patriarchal society.

What I disagree with Levon is the idea that women should keep their traditional role meaning raising children and doing housework and men should work outside etc. talking in general as humanity no one has the right to restrict anyone what he or she wants to do. Even if there is only 1% of chance a woman can become a president she must have that chance. so in the end there should be created equal oportunities for everyone to do any proffesion they want. For example if you restrict women you are eliminating around 50% of the world population to create. only half of the population is working to find a cure for cancer and this is not acceptable. just like you as a man are free to chose any proffesion you want so is a woman is free to chose any proffession she wants. Don't compare humans to animals because animals LACK the capability to think.

I believe in general equality meaning if you put the rights of men and women on a balance the sum should be equal this is easy said than done for example an average man no doupt is stronger than a woman but I have read some reports that women have far better balance than men. I think it is some kind of a bargen give and take that happens between the two sexes wether we feel it or not and I believe the more we go on more and more we are taking the needle to the middle it is a process that will carry on in the future.


coming back to Armenia afterall we must be talking about Armenia. We must aproach this problem from our concerns and difficulties and goals. We must keep in mind our population. We can't afford to play with this factor no matter what we must insure a steady growth of Armenia's population. Now it is a common knowlage that educated woman who persue their career bring less children than uneducated one even if you pass laws of maternity to encourage the fact of the matter is uneducated women with no career bring more babies at least because they have more time to do so they get married around 18 years and start whereas women with careers tend to get married after 24 or so. This DOESN'T mean we have to keep our women uneducated because in the mean time women according to probability present 50% of the population if you are chosing a good president and you ignore the 50% of the population it is not smart thing to do there is a lot of chance you have made the wrong choice. So I suggest we must find our Armenian formula and the people who do this are our sociologists this is a delicate and complecated matter. I am completely against adopting the western system because that system in itself has a lot of flaws (even deadly flows to a small nation like Armenia, mostly population decrease) and not adopt the Eastern system where women are baby machines even our system now Im not fo at all. So proffesionals must do research and find the delicate balance and keep on working to correct this balance all the time because conditions change alot.

[Hye]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

hi gegev

your quote: "Every unnatural behavior will be eradicated by nature – naturally:"

Can you define what is natural? what is natural to you? Well in nature a female bears offsprigs from differnt male every time she is ready this is nature. Civilisation as itself is not nature. In the end we have brains we should think and find better ways.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian women: should play a bigger role in our economy, politics and military.

Hye i also think that women in the usa do have it pretty easy in the court system which maked divorce so easy and even a profitable venture for them. But that is not the only thing levon and his fellow sexists are talking about. They claim women are incapable and when you give them examples they claim those are the unnatural exceptions. You know levon i to want to go back to hayastan if i get the opportunity to do so but i sure hope i dont find you there cause men like you are the problem that armenia has. Your backwardedness along with your other dimwitted buddies here is the reason why people are rushing to leave hayastan. It is ignorence and intolorance that creates people who dont care about their fellow countymen and try to impose clan rule vs meritocracy. These matters are not unrelated to sexism because the root cause of both is "sahmanapagutiun". The only moral of your story mr levon is that you made the wife character a pathetic brainless wench just the way you percieve women to be so i guess the moral of the story is that your a sexist! Women are not that dumb and irresponcible but you keep proving that you are.