Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

The term "eagerly" is deceitfully used with mal-intent, and as a Kurd I am gravely offended to have my nation accused of genocide. There were two groups of Kurds who participated in the genocide: convicted criminals who were set free, and the Hamidiye-irregulars, who were assimilated into Turkish insanity. Both groups did not massacre Armenians for the benefit of our cause, and did certainly not represent Kurdish nationalism. They can compared to the Kurdish 'village guards' of the 90s, who were appointed by the Turkish government to kill their fellow Kurds. We call these people 'jash', because they have withdrawn themselves from our cause. We include the Hamidiye-irregulars in this category, and therefore it is unjust to hold the Kurds in general responsible for what some jash did. Furthermore, the Kurdish involvement in the genocide is always thrown WAY out of proportion, and I have earlier seen you falsely stating that the Kurds did all the actual slaughtering. Are you saying that the Hamidiye-irregulars were a massive, ultra-flexible force, capable of exterminating 1/1.5 million people in a short period of time? Such a biased statement is revolting, and is characteristic of the racist mentality among many Armenians. It's also an indication of how you've been affected by Turkish propaganda, which tries to put the blame on us, stating that it was a 'local initiative'.

I'd also like to point out that the region where I come from opposed the genocide and gave the Armenians shelter, risking their own lives in doing so. 30000 Armenians were saved in my region, and to see you spreading all that bullxxxx sickens me to the pit of my stomach.
And the Kurds who do want to reach out to the Armenians are wrong to. We're always spit on by the Armenians, especially the ones on this forum. You portray us as inferior mountain donkeys, not realising all the years of misery we've had to endure. Maybe your blind arrogance, brought on by your pathetic superiority complex, will be of a practical benefit when the opportunity for Northern Kurdish independence comes. And what is the Armenian definition of 'historic lands' exactly? It is based on the presence of some churches? Selectively-recorded population maps? The violent conquests of ancient Armenian kingdoms? Hayk's little fairytale? All this nationalistic rubbish is of utmost insignificance in a geopolitical context. You'll have to look at raw material like demographic density, genetics, multiple theories regarding ethnogenesis, etc. According to these peritmeters, it can only be concluded that the Kurds have been living in this area equally as long as the Armenians, and being the direct descendants of the Hurrians, possibly even longer.
The Kurds had already 'settled' in these regions prior to your genocide. It is their indigenous homeland. It's only the 20th century-style birth rate that makes you come to that biased conclusion.

Prior to posting here, I had already been haunting this forum for quite a while. And I am sickened by your narrow-minded, arrogant and patronizing stance towards my nation. Not to mention all these pathetic irredentist goals you pursue, which don't even limit themselves to eastern anatolia. You are a threat to every nation in your vicinity, and I will do my utmost to inform my fellow comrades of your filthy interests, so that you may fall victim to your own arrogance.

Cry me a river. What do you expect? With the role that your people played in oppressing Armenians even before the genocide, the huge role that they played during the genocide. A lot of the killing was done by Kurdish tribes man payed by the government in
Constantinople. Add to everything the fact that the Kurds living in Armenia chose the Azeris side and fought against Armenians in the Artsakh war, so you reap what you sow.

[HermanGerman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

persepolis ?

[Zulfiqar]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Given that Turks eagerly participated in the Armenian Genocide and betrayed their Armenian neighbours, I don't see how they can be trusted.

The term "eagerly" is deceitfully used with mal-intent, and as a Kurd I am gravely offended to have my nation accused of genocide. There were two groups of Kurds who participated in the genocide: convicted criminals who were set free, and the Hamidiye-irregulars, who were assimilated into Turkish insanity. Both groups did not massacre Armenians for the benefit of our cause, and did certainly not represent Kurdish nationalism. They can compared to the Kurdish 'village guards' of the 90s, who were appointed by the Turkish government to kill their fellow Kurds. We call these people 'jash', because they have withdrawn themselves from our cause. We include the Hamidiye-irregulars in this category, and therefore it is unjust to hold the Kurds in general responsible for what some jash did. Furthermore, the Kurdish involvement in the genocide is always thrown WAY out of proportion, and I have earlier seen you falsely stating that the Kurds did all the actual slaughtering. Are you saying that the Hamidiye-irregulars were a massive, ultra-flexible force, capable of exterminating 1/1.5 million people in a short period of time? Such a biased statement is revolting, and is characteristic of the racist mentality among many Armenians. It's also an indication of how you've been affected by Turkish propaganda, which tries to put the blame on us, stating that it was a 'local initiative'.

I'd also like to point out that the region where I come from opposed the genocide and gave the Armenians shelter, risking their own lives in doing so. 30000 Armenians were saved in my region, and to see you spreading all that bullxxxx sickens me to the pit of my stomach.

Of course they will want to be "friends" with us when they want to achieve their own goal

And the Kurds who do want to reach out to the Armenians are wrong to. We're always spit on by the Armenians, especially the ones on this forum. You portray us as inferior mountain donkeys, not realising all the years of misery we've had to endure. Maybe your blind arrogance, brought on by your pathetic superiority complex, will be of a practical benefit when the opportunity for Northern Kurdish independence comes.

Kurds in Turkey should understand that they are living in our historic lands

And what is the Armenian definition of 'historic lands' exactly? It is based on the presence of some churches? Selectively-recorded population maps? The violent conquests of ancient Armenian kingdoms? Hayk's little fairytale? All this nationalistic rubbish is of utmost insignificance in a geopolitical context. You'll have to look at raw material like demographic density, genetics, multiple theories regarding ethnogenesis, etc. According to these peritmeters, it can only be concluded that the Kurds have been living in this area equally as long as the Armenians, and being the direct descendants of the Hurrians, possibly even longer.

through what means they were able to settle there more.

The Kurds had already 'settled' in these regions prior to your genocide. It is their indigenous homeland. It's only the 20th century-style birth rate that makes you come to that biased conclusion.

Prior to posting here, I had already been haunting this forum for quite a while. And I am sickened by your narrow-minded, arrogant and patronizing stance towards my nation. Not to mention all these pathetic irredentist goals you pursue, which don't even limit themselves to eastern anatolia. You are a threat to every nation in your vicinity, and I will do my utmost to inform my fellow comrades of your filthy interests, so that you may fall victim to your own arrogance.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

The fact that Kurdish parties can't get majority in Kurdish majority regions proofs what I've said

So? and I told you the same happened in Iraq during saddam rule becuase he had money and our parties didn't! and the same can be applied to Turkey, the AKP has money which can be used to bribe and the Kurdish parties don't! the AKP has the army the BDP do not! the AKP has very powerful propaganda machines, the BDP do not! regardless the Kurds there are becoming more and more unified since the last election, and I posted evidence, you'll see in the elections.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Kurds in "Turkey" are becoming more and more united every day, I suggest you follow the news before you open your mouth, besides what were you expecting? this is nothing new, divided land = divided loyalty and we have the same problem in Iraq, trust me... Saddam had his own Kurdish divisions in the north that were 'Loyal' to him but in reality they were just afraid and needed money, and these 'loyal' quickly joined the rebellion as soon as America declared war on Iraq! and we know all of them, we know who was a traitor and who was not.. and it's funny how quickly they have become ultra-nationalists.

The same applies to Turkey: Members of Turkey's MHP resign, join pro-Kurdish party (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.p...rty-2011-05-23)

After all, people that are easily assimilated, are also easy assimilated back

P.S: We're not going to go with Iran becuase they have been independent for years and have a much bigger population so it would be stupid for us to compare our self to them as of this moment!

The fact that Kurdish parties can't get majority in Kurdish majority regions proofs what I've said

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Kurds in "Turkey" are becoming more and more united every day, I suggest you follow the news before you open your mouth, besides what were you expecting? this is nothing new, divided land = divided loyalty and we have the same problem in Iraq, trust me... Saddam had his own Kurdish divisions in the north that were 'Loyal' to him but in reality they were just afraid and needed money, and these 'loyal' quickly joined the rebellion as soon as America declared war on Iraq! and we know all of them, we know who was a traitor and who was not.. and it's funny how quickly they have become ultra-nationalists.

The same applies to Turkey: Members of Turkey's MHP resign, join pro-Kurdish party (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.p...rty-2011-05-23)

After all, people that are easily assimilated, are also easy assimilated back

P.S: We're not going to go with Iran becuase they have been independent for years and have a much bigger population so it would be stupid for us to compare our self to them as of this moment! besides, with a big of smart abuse of our religion sect we can get quite a few sunni states in on it too I'm sure suadia and other rich sunni Arab states wouldn't mind sparing a couple billion.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Turkey is the biggest threat to the republic of Armenia. The policy that Turkey pursues is one aimed at Armenia's total destruction. Can you grasp that simple concept? Turkey is not a small neighbor like Georgia or Azerbaijan, it is a huge Republic with a powerful and modern armed forces, and continually beefs up its military. The only thing preventing Turkey from invading Armenia (as it had planned doing so in 1993) is the absence of the right circumstances (perhaps that being the absence of Russian troops on Armenia's territory).

Regardless of the past, the Kurds today are a key ingredient in the fragmentation of Turkey. A smaller Turkey is a weakened Turkey, and less of a threat and more manageable for Armenia. It's as simply as that. A Kurdish state is an element in solving the armenian question that must be used.

Don't get ahead of yourself, kurds laying claim to western Armenia. Lets get it out of Turkish hands, and then worry about Western Armenia. Even in such a case, if the Kurds were to occup and build a state on lands of western Armenia, such a Kurdish state would be FARRRR easier to deal with(in terms of hopes for getting the land back) than we have today against the large and powerful Turkish republic.



What we could gain is the US dumping Turkey for it's new ally-Kurdistan- and awarding it lands from todays turkey.

Why would the US dump an ally that it has had for the last 60 years? A member of NATO and one of the strongest militaries in the region? Or do you think that the policy makers in Washington are that stupid to change a stable ally that they have had for for 6 decades for new ally that they don't know if they can trust them.

An independent Kurdistan will be in Northern-Iraq because Turkey will never give up an inch of land and the US will not go to war with its own ally. Or do you think the Kurds will have the power to take on the Turkish army?

The Kurds of Turkey are not even united as a single force, they are so fragmented that it isn't even funny, some of the clans support the government and others support the PKK, I don't see them ever taking on the Turkish army.

So tell me how an independent Kurdistan in Northern-Iraq will serve our interests? How will a new tool for NATO interests serve our interests?

@Armanen
One on one Iran can handle the Kurds any day but that is not how politics works and it is never one on one there are always others joining in.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Given that Turks eagerly participated in the Armenian Genocide and betrayed their Armenian neighbours, I don't see how they can be trusted. Just because we have a common enemy doesn't mean that they can't come back and bite us. Of course they will want to be "friends" with us when they want to achieve their own goal, but in the end I don't think we should trust them given the history. Kurds in Turkey should understand that they are living in our historic lands and through what means they were able to settle there more. We must always learn from history, not let false intentions get the better of us.

I'm confused, why do we need Armenian help? :S we have enough population and natural resources to help us achieve our goal.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

I think you answered that yourself:

That does not make any sense.

Though, to be living amongst Kurds is a situation I wouldn't wish on any minority population.

That's funny, I wonder why 200,000 Arabs have moved to Kurdistan and at least 50,000 Christians have moved too? the fact is our cities are developing on a very fast rate and we attract 2 million tourists each year.

[haysip]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

if kurds can somehow balance the forces with turkey, then we can fuk azergayjan and get the eastern part