Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

There are not going to be any slaughtering going on and we have no desire in attacking Turkey, it would be suicide to be known as the aggressors.

The the Kurds don't have a claim on Western-Armenia?

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

If Turkey was attacked they would come t its defense, it seems you don't realise how much money the US has invested in Turkey and how many projects are going on in Turkey sponsored by the West.

You do realise that US allies can do as they please look to SA, and all the xxxx it been up too and no one even mentions them. When it comes to their allies the US and the West don't care about public opinion and public opinion can be formed so easily by the media.

It sounds like a dream Kurds and Turks slaughtering each other. So please get started right now.

There are not going to be any slaughtering going on and we have no desire in attacking Turkey, it would be suicide to be known as the aggressors.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Do you honestly believe that NATO and the west will help Turkey in a war? which would effectively make Turkey more powerful? if you do then I feel sorry for you.

Also if the Turks are stupid enough to declare war on us, they will suffer greatly as it would unite us with Kurds in the North, that will be a nightmare situation for Turks as they will be the aggressive people that invaded another country, and also oppressing their own people, and a couple clever moves by the Kurds that will hold peaceful protests that will eventually be met with violence from the Turkish army and a clever propaganda campaign will give the Turks a bad image, and we all know how important public opinion is in the west, hence the western governments will be forced to act

If Turkey was attacked they would come t its defense, it seems you don't realise how much money the US has invested in Turkey and how many projects are going on in Turkey sponsored by the West.

You do realise that US allies can do as they please look to SA, and all the xxxx it been up too and no one even mentions them. When it comes to their allies the US and the West don't care about public opinion and public opinion can be formed so easily by the media.

It sounds like a dream Kurds and Turks slaughtering each other. So please get started right now.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Kurds have been living in the mountainous region of Anatolia for a long time, infact most 'Iranic' empires were protected by Kurds on the Anatolian border, and these mountanious people were mentioned by both the Greeks and Romans that failed to pass us.





Both are from a British book written by Brits.

[Mos]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

It doesn't matter whether they helped them or not. What matters is what our national intentions were, and the requirement for such intentions is that they are supported by the majority of the Kurds. These Hamidiye-irregulars did not belong to the Kurdish nationalist curriculum, and acted solely for the Turks. In this context, the term 'Kurd' should only be used to designate their ethnicity, and is should not be handled in a manner as if they represented the Kurdish nation. The fact that some Kurds gave them shelter supports this, so due to the heavy ideological fragmentation of the time, it is unjust to hold the present-day Kurds responsible for these atrocities. We owe you nothing.

I'm sorry but it wasn't just "kurdish bandits" but everyday Kurdish people betraying their Armenian neighbours. From covertly helping to Turks, to just leading the way for Turks to Armenian houses. It was pure betrayal and it just comes to show that Kurds cannot be trusted. As I said before, a few good apples doesn't justify all the bad apples. The only reason Kurds may seem to "reach out" to Armenians now is because they are against the Turks and want to use us.

It's our historic land too. If your nationalist perception of history is a reason to ridicule my nation, then you are a condemnable person.

Have Kurds created the amount of culture and history in that area like Armenians? Have they held magnificent cities like Ani? This area of Anatolia was with out doubt the cultural and ancestral homeland of Armenians, the only way that right now its your "homeland" is through ethnic cleansing and massacres of course supported by your once close friends Turks.

Facts? Let me get some 'facts' straight. You migrated to this region from the north-Caucasus around 700 BC, after which you assimilated the Urartians, who were living in Pontus and the southern Caucasus. As opposed to complete extinguishment of the Urartians by the Armenians, the Hurrians, who were living in most of what you refer to as 'western Armenia', gradually evolved into Kurds throughout Iranic interposition that occured around the same time. Considering that the Armenians posess an Urartian, and not Hurrian substratum, it is plausible that the Urartu kingdom(which you idolize so much) was established through violence and brutal extermination, because it annexed Hurrian lands. From a Kurdish perspective, this does not justify Armenian claim over eastern anatolia. The 'Armenian Highland' is just a designation of the region by pro-Armenian(western) entities.

It is possible? Well, we all know how today's Kurdish region was created - through massacre and genocide. Sure Kurds lived in the area before genocide, but you ignore the historical/cultural impact that was predominately, without question Armenian throughout the ages.

No, what you define as your 'ancestral land' was heavily fragmented prior to the genocide, and it's difficult to determine Armenia's boundairies. But surely overlapped ancient Kurdish land, and any self-proclaimed Kurdish nationalist will hasten to keep you out.

Leading up to the Genocide, more Kurds/Turks were populated in the area. There was intent in fragmenting the land.

Very funny. It's still sad that you arrogantly keep underestimating the importance that Northern Kurdistan has for us, and the level of intellectuality we'll enhance it with.

Honestly, I could care less. Both Turks and Kurds have been enemies to Armenians, one group planning it, the other group carrying it out. I really don't care when Kurds are suppressed in Turkey because in the same way Kurds were suppressing Armenians. What level of intellectuality are you going to enhance with it? What cultural contributions has the noble nation of Kurdistan brought to the area?

When you review history, you'll know that before the arrival of Turkic tribes to the region, we had some serious issues with the Greeks. And now, the only reason we are friendly with the Greeks is the Turkish threat!!! Are you proposing we not forget the "brave deeds" of the Greeks and consider the Greeks enemy as well, in addition to the Turks?

Okay, first off, Greeks like us were massacred by the Turks. The Kurds on the other hand massacred Armenians. The difference here is black and white, how can you trust Kurds? Just because we have common enemy right now, doesn't mean they should be trusted. Once they have their enemy taken care of, they will turn around and stab you in the back. Greeks are reliable friends because they haven't betrayed us like the Kurds, and are historically against Turks because of Genocide. Not to mention, they are also Christians.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

You know what NATO is right? It is a defensive alliance created to counter the SU. "NATO is committed to the principle that an attack against one or more of its member is an attack against all." Article 5.

The first time it was used was after 9/11 and every NATO member is committed in Afghanistan or are you going to deny that.
Iraq is not a NATO mission.

Do you honestly believe that NATO and the west will help Turkey in a war? which would effectively make Turkey more powerful? if you do then I feel sorry for you.

Also if the Turks are stupid enough to declare war on us, they will suffer greatly as it would unite us with Kurds in the North, that will be a nightmare situation for Turks as they will be the aggressive people that invaded another country, and also oppressing their own people, and a couple clever moves by the Kurds that will hold peaceful protests that will eventually be met with violence from the Turkish army and a clever propaganda campaign will give the Turks a bad image, and we all know how important public opinion is in the west, hence the western governments will be forced to act

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

If you bothered to check the wiki page all the sections have sources, and I'm not going to spoon feed you, you can easily click and check them all. their so called 'allies' of the joke that is NATO refused to help them in the Iraq war, so what makes you think they will help Turkey? Turkey is trieng to take more of an independent approach rather then being the puppets that they were until now and the west is not happy.

You know what NATO is right? It is a defensive alliance created to counter the SU. "NATO is committed to the principle that an attack against one or more of its member is an attack against all." Article 5.

The first time it was used was after 9/11 and every NATO member is committed in Afghanistan or are you going to deny that.
Iraq is not a NATO mission.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Quoting Wiki the high point of a debate

Still doesn't change the fact that they are allies and will rush to come to the help of one of their own or see the alliance fall apart.

Russia is not in NATO or an ally of Turkey.

If you bothered to check the wiki page all the sections have sources, and I'm not going to spoon feed you, you can easily click and check them all. their so called 'allies' of the joke that is NATO refused to help them in the Iraq war, so what makes you think they will help Turkey? Turkey is trieng to take more of an independent approach rather then being the puppets that they were until now and the west is not happy.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

The only reason Britain is friendly with the Turks is because British economy is run by 'services'' that they provide, one of that is their massive oil/gas production companies that they want to get to Europe, and that route is unfortunately via Turkey.

We all saw the comments their so called 'NATO' allies made during their invasion of Kurdistan.

Australia – Foreign Affairs Minister Stephen Smith called on Turkey to respect Iraq's sovereignty and withdraw as soon as possible.[7]

Germany – The Foreign Office urged Turkey not to escalate regional tensions.[26]

Iraq – The Iraqi government protested to the Turkish chargé d'affaires in Baghdad. An Iraqi government spokesman said, "Our position is Turkey should respect the sovereignty of Iraq and avoid any military action which would threaten security and stability."[27] On February 26 Iraq increased its criticism, saying the "unilateral military action was unacceptable and it threatened the good relations between the two neighbouring countries."[52]

Russia - The Russian Foreign Ministry expressed the hope that a political solution respecting Iraqi sovereignty and regional security could be found, though it also acknowledged the importance of not allowing "the territory of any state to be used as a staging ground for terrorist activities against their neighbours."[26]

United Kingdom – The Foreign Office stated, "We would urge Turkey to withdraw from Iraqi territory as early as possible and take the greatest possible care to avoid causing harm to the civilian population."[53] On February 23 Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan called British Foreign Minister David Miliband to update him on the operation's progress and exchange views.[54]

United States – In the months leading up to the incursion the US had repeatedly expressed concerns that large-scale military action in Northern Iraq had the potential to destabilize the region, although it supported Turkey's right to defend itself against insurgents.[55][56] It was seen as a "bitter defeat for American diplomacy" when Turkey launched the operation in defiance of this lobbying effort,[57] and although the US publicly expressed its belief that Turkey had the right to defend itself against insurgents[58] they maintained consistent pressure on Turkey to limit the length and scale of the operation throughout.[37][59] On February 24, for example, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said "I would hope that it would be short, that it would be precise and avoid the loss of innocent life and that they leave as quickly as they can accomplish the mission."[54]

Not to mention Irans Iraqi puppet al sader that was going mental and threatening Turkey with his militia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Tu..._northern_Iraq

Quoting Wiki the high point of a debate

Still doesn't change the fact that they are allies and will rush to come to the help of one of their own or see the alliance fall apart.

Russia is not in NATO or an ally of Turkey.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

The only reason Britain is friendly with the Turks is because British economy is run by 'services'' that they provide, one of that is their massive oil/gas production companies that they want to get to Europe, and that route is unfortunately via Turkey.

We all saw the comments their so called 'NATO' allies made during their invasion of Kurdistan.

Australia – Foreign Affairs Minister Stephen Smith called on Turkey to respect Iraq's sovereignty and withdraw as soon as possible.[7]

Germany – The Foreign Office urged Turkey not to escalate regional tensions.[26]

Iraq – The Iraqi government protested to the Turkish chargé d'affaires in Baghdad. An Iraqi government spokesman said, "Our position is Turkey should respect the sovereignty of Iraq and avoid any military action which would threaten security and stability."[27] On February 26 Iraq increased its criticism, saying the "unilateral military action was unacceptable and it threatened the good relations between the two neighbouring countries."[52]

Russia - The Russian Foreign Ministry expressed the hope that a political solution respecting Iraqi sovereignty and regional security could be found, though it also acknowledged the importance of not allowing "the territory of any state to be used as a staging ground for terrorist activities against their neighbours."[26]

United Kingdom – The Foreign Office stated, "We would urge Turkey to withdraw from Iraqi territory as early as possible and take the greatest possible care to avoid causing harm to the civilian population."[53] On February 23 Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan called British Foreign Minister David Miliband to update him on the operation's progress and exchange views.[54]

United States – In the months leading up to the incursion the US had repeatedly expressed concerns that large-scale military action in Northern Iraq had the potential to destabilize the region, although it supported Turkey's right to defend itself against insurgents.[55][56] It was seen as a "bitter defeat for American diplomacy" when Turkey launched the operation in defiance of this lobbying effort,[57] and although the US publicly expressed its belief that Turkey had the right to defend itself against insurgents[58] they maintained consistent pressure on Turkey to limit the length and scale of the operation throughout.[37][59] On February 24, for example, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said "I would hope that it would be short, that it would be precise and avoid the loss of innocent life and that they leave as quickly as they can accomplish the mission."[54]

Not to mention Irans Iraqi puppet al sader that was going mental and threatening Turkey with his militia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Turkish_incursion_into_northern_Iraq