Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

[Artsakh]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

STOP IT!

This isn't a thread about the origins of Kurds or Armenians.

All you people who are saying the Kurds took part in the killings of Armenians, and therefore we shouldn't collaborate with them on any matters are emotional, immature, and politically naieve. Politics has always allowed for strange bedfellows, that's the nature of the dirty game of politics. If we follow your logic, we shouldn't have relations with the Iranians (who drove our compatriots like sheep from their homeland AND who still occupy historial armenian lands), we shouldn't deal with the Russians (who cut a deal with the Turks and sold off Historial Armenia along with Mount Ararat) and many more examples.

For those of you who can't understand the simple fact that Turkey is the greatest threat facing Armenia, and that that threat must be dealt a serious blow, then you have no idea about the dangers facing Armenia, then you are as naieve as dirty.
It is Turkey who is behind all the plans to isolate Armenia. It is Turkey's plan to suffocate and squeez Armenia through blockade.

Greek, Armenian and Kurdish lobbies have collaborated in their anti-Turkish activities in the US. The same can take place in battle to liberate lands. We have a common interest with the Kurds: territorial issues against the Turks. It doesn't matter that Kurds in the past took part iin the killing of Armenians. This is an immature argument that any serious person understand politics would laugh at. We don't love the kurds, neither are the kurds crazy about us, but for our own best sake, we've got no choice but to collaborate until the monster is taken out.

There's no need to remind you: it's turks occupying western Armenia today, NOT the Kurds. It's Turks waging and funding a denial campaign against the Armenian Genocide, NOT Kurds. In fact, Kurds have come out, appologized, and acknoweleged the Genocide.

Kurds are not a puppet. Kurds are a national and are guided by national interests just like any other. That their and the west's interests coincide does not mean they're puppets.

To the contrary. In the long-term, Kurds could proove to become serious allies. It is no secret that Iran has long term interests in the caucasus as it always has had throughout history. They ultimately hope to bring the caucasus under their authority, including Armenia, azerabijaan, and possibly georgia. Knowning that Iran does have such an interest in the region which is undeniable, sometime in the future current strategic partner iran may become a enemy.

politics changes all the time, you never know. But what is certain is that Turkey is a great threat, and that threat was be dealt a serious blow and minimized.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

The average "Kurd on the street" in Turkey will often tell you that the Kurds are descendants of the Medes. I don't know whether this is some modern invention to give Kurds a longer and more glorious history, or if it is perhaps derived from the medieval Armenian chroniclers often referring to the Kurds as "Mar" (they also used the word "Mar" for real Medians). See V. Minorsky, Studies in Caucasian History, p127. The same Armenian manuscript about alphabets in which the lost alphabet of the Caucasian Albanians was famously rediscovered also contained an example of "the language of the Medians (Mar)". Minorsky describes it as "a prayer in Kurdish". I wonder what alphabet it was written in?

We are for the most part descendants of the medes, however as I stated, the medes conquered the local people whom are also our ancestors.

[Lucin]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Bell after reading these and others of yours I've got a request to make. Can you make a list of what in your opinion are the best books on Armenian history? Starting from the beginning till now.
I hope the rest of the members will join in as well and contribute.

Karo jan, humor es anum? Odar@ mez hyots patmutyan grkeri arajark ani?

[Armanen]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

It doesn't matter whether they helped them or not. What matters is what our national intentions were, and the requirement for such intentions is that they are supported by the majority of the Kurds. These Hamidiye-irregulars did not belong to the Kurdish nationalist curriculum, and acted solely for the Turks. In this context, the term 'Kurd' should only be used to designate their ethnicity, and is should not be handled in a manner as if they represented the Kurdish nation. The fact that some Kurds gave them shelter supports this, so due to the heavy ideological fragmentation of the time, it is unjust to hold the present-day Kurds responsible for these atrocities. We owe you nothing.




It's our historic land too. If your nationalist perception of history is a reason to ridicule my nation, then you are a condemnable person.




Facts? Let me get some 'facts' straight. You migrated to this region from the north-Caucasus around 700 BC, after which you assimilated the Urartians, who were living in Pontus and the southern Caucasus. As opposed to complete extinguishment of the Urartians by the Armenians, the Hurrians, who were living in most of what you refer to as 'western Armenia', gradually evolved into Kurds throughout Iranic interposition that occured around the same time. Considering that the Armenians posess an Urartian, and not Hurrian substratum, it is plausible that the Urartu kingdom(which you idolize so much) was established through violence and brutal extermination, because it annexed Hurrian lands. From a Kurdish perspective, this does not justify Armenian claim over eastern anatolia. The 'Armenian Highland' is just a designation of the region by pro-Armenian(western) entities.




No, what you define as your 'ancestral land' was heavily fragmented prior to the genocide, and it's difficult to determine Armenia's boundairies. But surely overlapped ancient Kurdish land, and any self-proclaimed Kurdish nationalist will hasten to keep you out.




Very funny. It's still sad that you arrogantly keep underestimating the importance that Northern Kurdistan has for us, and the level of intellectuality we'll enhance it with.

You can go peddle your pseudo history somewhere else. You claim kurds are evolved from Hurrians, when it is commonly known that kurds are an Iranic peoples. Even the Iranic theory has come under fire from certain academic circles. What is known about kurds is that they have never had a functioning kingdom, empire, or republic. What does that tell you about the people?

Urartu was the Assyrian name for the Armenian kingdom of Ararat. Armenians did not assimilate the Urartuians, Armenians were Urartuians and existed prior to it as well. I suggest you check out the site listed in my signature if you're truly interested in learning. Otherwise siktir!

[Armanen]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

@Armanen
One on one Iran can handle the Kurds any day but that is not how politics works and it is never one on one there are always others joining in.

The point is that the kurds can not take on turkey at this time let alone Iran and turkey. The kurds have better chances of getting lands from turkey than Iran. The lands the kurds claim in turkey is occupied mostly by kurds, while the lands they claim in north-western Iran is occupied by Azaris.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

No the medes were not Kurds... just a part of our history.. you need to understand that there are over 20 Kurdish dialects, some are very different that they could pass for different languages! the medes where European migrants that conquered the local people of the area they conquered, and so mixing began... so our ancestors were living there before the Europeans conquered them and forced the European language on them....

The average "Kurd on the street" in Turkey will often tell you that the Kurds are descendants of the Medes. I don't know whether this is some modern invention to give Kurds a longer and more glorious history, or if it is perhaps derived from the medieval Armenian chroniclers often referring to the Kurds as "Mar" (they also used the word "Mar" for real Medians). See V. Minorsky, Studies in Caucasian History, p127. The same Armenian manuscript about alphabets in which the lost alphabet of the Caucasian Albanians was famously rediscovered also contained an example of "the language of the Medians (Mar)". Minorsky describes it as "a prayer in Kurdish". I wonder what alphabet it was written in?

[haysip]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

I wouldnt be surprised if kurdman and persopolis are the same person. right after the "persian" left, the "kurd" came in

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Welcome to Kurdistan

Yes, it's amazing what an absence of American bombs and missiles (but a plentyfull supply of American dollars) will do for the appearance of a city.

[Mos]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Who told you we should pick sides?

It seemed to me that you were siding with the Kurds, I guess I misunderstood you.

[Eddo211]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

yes let them destroy each other, why should we pick a side?

Who told you we should pick sides?