Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Enjoy it while you can.

Ocalan controls PKK.....Deep State controls Okalan.

Right OK, genius... but anyway what's that got to do with the PKK? what is showed is southern Kurdistan and it's completely controlled by Kurds, not the PKK... but our own elected government.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

The true extent of Kurdish involvement in the Armenian genocide isn't going to be studied properly until Turkey ceases most of its state-level denying. Until that happens, the AG is always going to be more of a political issue that an historical subject. Armenians understate the Kurdish participation in the genocide (and the many historical precedents of Kurds commiting massacres) in order to gain political advantage against Turkey. And Kurds have a "fluffy cuddly oppressed ethnics" image that is ripe for pricking with some pointed truths. Kurds did commit most of the massacres - but, yes, they didn't do it for their national interests (most Kurds in 1915 were not concious of having a Kurdish identity). Their motives were much worse: They did it for the immediate financial gain and for the pleasure of doing it. The Kurdish involvement in the Armenian Genocide was just normal Kurdish behaviour, but on a far larger scale than ever before and with nobody around to restrain them.

This is what I meant when I said that Kurdish historiography is worse even than that of Azerbaijan. The Carduchi mentioned by Zenophon were not Kurds. There were almost no Kurds at all in Anatolia 1000 years ago - even if you use the fake modern Turkish meaning of Anatolia. Early Armenian texts talk about "Medes", long after real Medes vanished from history - it is thought that they are actually referring to Kurds, but those "medes" did not live in Anatolia, they lived to the south of Armenia, in what is now present-day northern Iran and Iraq. Some tribes also lived near Ararat, and those tribes were where the ancestors of Saladin came from. Kurds only really started to enter Armenia after the Seljuk Turkish invasions, and over centuries the migrations increased and they were the ones chiefly responsible for the devastation and desertion of Armenia and the widespread collapse of civilisation there, a process that culminated in the Armenian genocide - it was only after the genocide that the Kurds became the majority settled population for the first time.

Bell after reading these and others of yours I've got a request to make. Can you make a list of what in your opinion are the best books on Armenian history? Starting from the beginning till now.
I hope the rest of the members will join in as well and contribute.

[Eddo211]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Enjoy it while you can.

Ocalan controls PKK.....Deep State controls Okalan.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

I never knew there was a Kurdish state or a place called Kurdistan in history that can be used as justification to these ridiculous claim of Kurdish ancestral lands…..our friends the Iranian laugh at you, we try not to but its very hard.

The Kurd will do good if they would support The treaty of Sevres which has legal grounds against Turkey and even a place for an independent Kurdish state. Armenia lays no official claim on all of ancient Armenian lands.

Trust me man, the feeling is mutual

In just 5 years we've completely transformed our main cities to point that it's starting to look very modern, our government today is formed out of many Kurds that returned from the west, many of them are professors that were leading high profile scientific research teams.

We will have the last laugh

Welcome to Kurdistan

[Eddo211]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

I never knew there was a Kurdish state or a place called Kurdistan in history that can be used as justification to these ridiculous claim of Kurdish ancestral lands…..our friends the Iranian laugh at you, we try not to but its very hard.

The Kurd will do good if they would support The treaty of Sevres which has legal grounds against Turkey and even a place for an independent Kurdish state. Armenia lays no official claim on all of ancient Armenian lands.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

The term "eagerly" is deceitfully used with mal-intent, and as a Kurd I am gravely offended to have my nation accused of genocide. There were two groups of Kurds who participated in the genocide: convicted criminals who were set free, and the Hamidiye-irregulars, who were assimilated into Turkish insanity. Both groups did not massacre Armenians for the benefit of our cause, and did certainly not represent Kurdish nationalism. They can compared to the Kurdish 'village guards' of the 90s, who were appointed by the Turkish government to kill their fellow Kurds. We call these people 'jash', because they have withdrawn themselves from our cause. We include the Hamidiye-irregulars in this category, and therefore it is unjust to hold the Kurds in general responsible for what some jash did. Furthermore, the Kurdish involvement in the genocide is always thrown WAY out of proportion, and I have earlier seen you falsely stating that the Kurds did all the actual slaughtering. Are you saying that the Hamidiye-irregulars were a massive, ultra-flexible force, capable of exterminating 1/1.5 million people in a short period of time? Such a biased statement is revolting, and is characteristic of the racist mentality among many Armenians. It's also an indication of how you've been affected by Turkish propaganda, which tries to put the blame on us, stating that it was a 'local initiative'.

The true extent of Kurdish involvement in the Armenian genocide isn't going to be studied properly until Turkey ceases most of its state-level denying. Until that happens, the AG is always going to be more of a political issue that an historical subject. Armenians understate the Kurdish participation in the genocide (and the many historical precedents of Kurds commiting massacres) in order to gain political advantage against Turkey. And Kurds have a "fluffy cuddly oppressed ethnics" image that is ripe for pricking with some pointed truths. Kurds did commit most of the massacres - but, yes, they didn't do it for their national interests (most Kurds in 1915 were not concious of having a Kurdish identity). Their motives were much worse: They did it for the immediate financial gain and for the pleasure of doing it. The Kurdish involvement in the Armenian Genocide was just normal Kurdish behaviour, but on a far larger scale than ever before and with nobody around to restrain them.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

This is what I meant when I said that Kurdish historiography is worse even than that of Azerbaijan. The Carduchi mentioned by Zenophon were not Kurds. There were almost no Kurds at all in Anatolia 1000 years ago - even if you use the fake modern Turkish meaning of Anatolia. Early Armenian texts talk about "Medes", long after real Medes vanished from history - it is thought that they are actually referring to Kurds, but those "medes" did not live in Anatolia, they lived to the south of Armenia, in what is now present-day northern Iran and Iraq. Some tribes also lived near Ararat, and those tribes were where the ancestors of Saladin came from. Kurds only really started to enter Armenia after the Seljuk Turkish invasions, and over centuries the migrations increased and they were the ones chiefly responsible for the devastation and desertion of Armenia and the widespread collapse of civilisation there, a process that culminated in the Armenian genocide - it was only after the genocide that the Kurds became the majority settled population for the first time.

Yes yes, and pigs can fly.. I for one do not care what you think and say, all the evidence is in front of you, from neutral sources.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Kurds have been living in the mountainous region of Anatolia for a long time, infact most 'Iranic' empires were protected by Kurds on the Anatolian border, and these mountanious people were mentioned by both the Greeks and Romans that failed to pass us.

This is what I meant when I said that Kurdish historiography is worse even than that of Azerbaijan. The Carduchi mentioned by Zenophon were not Kurds. There were almost no Kurds at all in Anatolia 1000 years ago - even if you use the fake modern Turkish meaning of Anatolia. Early Armenian texts talk about "Medes", long after real Medes vanished from history - it is thought that they are actually referring to Kurds, but those "medes" did not live in Anatolia, they lived to the south of Armenia, in what is now present-day northern Iran and Iraq. Some tribes also lived near Ararat, and those tribes were where the ancestors of Saladin came from. Kurds only really started to enter Armenia after the Seljuk Turkish invasions, and over centuries the migrations increased and they were the ones chiefly responsible for the devastation and desertion of Armenia and the widespread collapse of civilisation there, a process that culminated in the Armenian genocide - it was only after the genocide that the Kurds became the majority settled population for the first time.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Couple pics of our army transformed quite a bit since it's rebel days.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

The the Kurds don't have a claim on Western-Armenia?

Not that I know off, we have a claim on northern Kurdistan, and that can be achieved by other means and not necessarily by war, first step is autonomy, and when we have autonomy re-assimilation of Kurds can begin just as we did in Iraq, once that's complete Turkey will not be able to do anything to counter us.