Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian policy)

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

It's far better to ban foreign donations altogether, than to seek to improve compliance or oversight in this regard.

Yes, That's the way to do it! Make Armenia know that beggers can't be choosers. Within a month, Armenians everywhere will be crawling back to their erstwhile donors, pleading for renewed help - and the obnoxious Tigranakert and Mos will be at the head of that queue of pleading beggars.

[Mos]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

France is definitely not an enemy, the problem lies with people thinking it is an ally (there is an important difference between these notions). Furthermore, Soviet Union is not Russia, and Russians also suffered a lot under the Soviet Union.

Europe can be very useful to Armenia, and in a lot of things, I am "pro-European". The only thing which bothers me, is that a large portions of Armenians think (or are being brainwashed) that everything European is good, or that Europe will support us, or that European integration is all that matters. One always has to think in form of self-interests, and as much as I would wish for Europe to have important interests in Armenia, this is simply not the case. For the West, Armenia is a nuisance, Armenians don't have anything significant to offer for the capitalist West.

One has to understand this, as it will be potentially very dangerous to be dependent on an entity which would love to sell our country if they had the chance to do so, because it will be in their interests. Their interests currently are more aligned with the Turkic world and are fiercly anti-Russian, which is the only reason they pay the minimum of attention to Armenia, because their only goal is to annoy Russia by trying to drive a wedge between Russia and Armenia, it's not even about Armenia itself, we're a pathetic tool.

If one day something miraculous happens and Armenia suddenly becomes an immense important country for the West, in their self-interest point of view, then indeed we can develop more strategic relationships with them etc.

Well same argument can be made for the modern day Turkey and the predecessor Ottoman State when it comes to Armenian Genocide. We still hold accountable modern day Turkey for the Genocide. Modern day Russia has sold weapons unfortunately to Azerbaijan and still does so, but even with all that we should still view Russia as a strong ally, because in the end of the day, their alliance with us has saved us at some crucial points in history and serve as an anti-Turkish weight in the region. No alliance is flawless.

The reason that the West is not hostile to Armenia like it is to other Russian allies (adversaries) is our diaspora and thus heavy lobbying power. Our situation would be much worse if we didn't have that lobbying power as West would be even more pro-Turkish/Azeris since the Turks represent Western interests in the region. We should always keep this in mind, but also work to have normal relations with the West, and use some Western ideals like regarding governance to reform and better our country. I am much more sceptical of the influence of certain Western liberal ideals, such as multiculturalism that could degrade our society.

It is thus in our interest to have an active Turkish-Russian rivalry. If they ever became close friends, or even allies, that could have very bad consequences for Armenia. We have to be vigilent and make sure that doesn't happen. Because in the end of the day, we need to be on the side that is against Turkish interests.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

Well same argument can be made for the modern day Turkey and the predecessor Ottoman State when it comes to Armenian Genocide. We still hold accountable modern day Turkey for the Genocide. Modern day Russia has sold weapons unfortunately to Azerbaijan and still does so, but even with all that we should still view Russia as a strong ally, because in the end of the day, their alliance with us has saved us at some crucial points in history and serve as an anti-Turkish weight in the region. No alliance is flawless.

You can't compare the Ottoman Empire - Turkey to the Soviet Union - Russia. This is not about if an alliance is or is not flawless. The difference is that modern day Turkey is responsible for the Armenian genocide, as the genocide continued under their rule, and as a matter of fact, most of the people who were (and are) guilty of the genocide during Ottoman years also had ruling positions in "modern-day" Turkey. The Ottoman Empire served Turkic interests, and Turkey serves Turkic interests. The Soviet Union did not serve Russian interests (hell, tens of millions of Russians got executed, their own culture and traditions forgotten, etc.), modern day Russia finally does serve Russia's interests.

The reason that the West is not hostile to Armenia like it is to other Russian allies (adversaries) is our diaspora and thus heavy lobbying power. Our situation would be much worse if we didn't have that lobbying power as West would be even more pro-Turkish/Azeris since the Turks represent Western interests in the region. We should always keep this in mind, but also work to have normal relations with the West, and use some Western ideals like regarding governance to reform and better our country. I am much more sceptical of the influence of certain Western liberal ideals, such as multiculturalism that could degrade our society.

The power of our lobby is a big imagination, even local gay factions are more successful than our defective Diaspora in the West. I wouldn't say the West is more hostile to other allies of Russia, just every country has it's own unique way to be conquered (taking into account it's history, culture, traditions, mindset, and geopolitical factors).

It is thus in our interest to have an active Turkish-Russian rivalry. If they ever became close friends, or even allies, that could have very bad consequences for Armenia. We have to be vigilent and make sure that doesn't happen. Because in the end of the day, we need to be on the side that is against Turkish interests.

It's never in Russia's interest to abandon Armenia, as it is their stronghold in the Caucasus. If Armenia ever comes under Turkic control, Russia will have difficulties controlling Southern-Russia. Anyways, even if you describe a utopia in which Turkey and Russia become strategic allies, this means that Armenia will be in the interest of the West, and thus we can become strategic allies with Western countries. The whole game will be turned around (and all the same arguments will apply).

The current reality is, Armenia is a nuisance for the West, yet an important ally for Russia (from the self-interest point of view), thus for the foreseeing future, our strategic alliance should lie with the Russian Federation.

Actually, I am a supporter of increasing Turkic-Russian relationships, as we have enormous potential to use this for our own benefit, but this will new topic as it's a long discussion.

[Mos]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

You can't compare the Ottoman Empire - Turkey to the Soviet Union - Russia. This is not about if an alliance is or is not flawless. The difference is that modern day Turkey is responsible for the Armenian genocide, as the genocide continued under their rule, and as a matter of fact, most of the people who were (and are) guilty of the genocide during Ottoman years also had ruling positions in "modern-day" Turkey. The Ottoman Empire served Turkic interests, and Turkey serves Turkic interests. The Soviet Union did not serve Russian interests (hell, tens of millions of Russians got executed, their own culture and traditions forgotten, etc.), modern day Russia finally does serve Russia's interests.

Well you make a valid point and many were led primarily by the Communist ideology rather than for Russian interests. That being said, us being part of the Soviet Union in my view was very crucial. As a soviet state we were able to refine and advance our culture, create a city that would serve as the capital for Armenian culture, government, and country. It was a relative era of peace that led us to refine and establish more the Armenian identity and lay the groundworks for a unified Armenian state. Though I still hate many of the Bolsheviks that sold us, especially the ones involved in giving our lands to Azerbaijan.

The power of our lobby is a big imagination, even local gay factions are more successful than our defective Diaspora in the West. I wouldn't say the West is more hostile to other allies of Russia, just every country has it's own unique way to be conquered (taking into account it's history, culture, traditions, mindset, and geopolitical factors).

Well, in US, Armenian lobby given Armenia's size does have a good amount of power. Of course Turks are strong as well, but the Armenian lobby has been able to make crucial influence. In Europe, our lobby is les prominent, though in France our lobby is naturally strong. The West is anti-Armenian, strategically, because their interests, especially energy, in the S. Caucasus aligns with the Turkish/Azeri interests.

It's never in Russia's interest to abandon Armenia, as it is their stronghold in the Caucasus. If Armenia ever comes under Turkic control, Russia will have difficulties controlling Southern-Russia. Anyways, even if you describe a utopia in which Turkey and Russia become strategic allies, this means that Armenia will be in the interest of the West, and thus we can become strategic allies with Western countries. The whole game will be turned around (and all the same arguments will apply).

Not to mention, relations with Georgia would take a whole new level. Of course, it's an unlikely scenario, but something to keep in mind as Turkey has been trying to drift away from the West and Russia warming ties with them.

The current reality is, Armenia is a nuisance for the West, yet an important ally for Russia (from the self-interest point of view), thus for the foreseeing future, our strategic alliance should lie with the Russian Federation.

We have no other choice than to be allies with Russia and at the same time have warm relations with Iran. Any other alignment will be against our interests.

Actually, I am a supporter of increasing Turkic-Russian relationships, as we have enormous potential to use this for our own benefit, but this will new topic as it's a long discussion.

I think that would be a risky relationship for us. Firstly, we would have to decide at the right time when it is time to reject Russia as an ally and if we did it too late we could be sold to the Turks. Even if we got that timing right, we would be even more enclosed by enemies, as the West is not really in the neighbourhood. We can never trust the Turks. This should be the motto of our foreign policy. If we fall into Turkish traps that can be the end for your country. Turkey-Azerbaijan are united and are intent on having a turkic empire from sea to sea, we stand in the middle and we hinder their western supported economic projects.

[Vahram]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

"Armenians everywhere will be crawling back to their erstwhile donors, pleading for renewed help - and the obnoxious Tigranakert and Mos will be at the head of that queue of pleading beggars"

What if I stand here and pet the little kiddy instead?

Now what?

Let me guess the toork mod is going to kill my post?

http://www.youtube.com/user/johnkkkj?feature=mhee#p/f/47/T9Vcf3WJKVY

I should run? Where too? I mean if I run who is going to invent things? Some cat?...LOL

[Tigranakert]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

I think that would be a risky relationship for us. Firstly, we would have to decide at the right time when it is time to reject Russia as an ally and if we did it too late we could be sold to the Turks. Even if we got that timing right, we would be even more enclosed by enemies, as the West is not really in the neighbourhood. We can never trust the Turks. This should be the motto of our foreign policy. If we fall into Turkish traps that can be the end for your country. Turkey-Azerbaijan are united and are intent on having a turkic empire from sea to sea, we stand in the middle and we hinder their western supported economic projects.

We can maintain our strategic relationship with Russia, even if they expand their relationship with Turkey. Russia will never become a strategic ally with them, as they have been historical enemies and have other interests, but making Turkey economically dependent upon Russia, and if Armenians were united they could have significant influence within Russian politics, such that there would be a potential for us to control Turkey indirectly. If Turkic-Western relationships deteriorate, we can make the West to support us more (economically and military) and use the huge Armenian Diaspora in Russia so that Russia will also support us, by which we get best of two worlds actually.

In any scenario there are possibilities for us Armenians (Western-Turkic relations, Turkic-Russian relations, Turkic-Arabic, etc.), the only prerequisite for us is to be united and have a clear long-term goal, never be emotional and only think in terms of self-interest.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

Does someone know who owns Zhoghovurd Daily in Armenia and who funds them?

[Tigranakert]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

You have violated the forum rules dozens of times, somehow you have immunity from the moderators. I again ask the moderators to remove the posts of bell-the-cat as they are all off-topic and provocative.

[Mos]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic

Why does Bell even care about Armenia? Isn't he a foreigner?

[Tigranakert]

Re: Western-financed Armenian "human rights activists" (and their anti-Armenian polic



When you have some time please access the link located at the bottom of this page. It is to a panel discussion sponsored by the "Carnegie Endowment For International Peace" proctored by John Evans, the former ambassador to Armenia. Of the four Armenian participants, Richard Giragosian, Emil Danielyan, Levon Parseghyan and Alexander Iskandaryan, the only normal individual present at the event was Alexander Iskandaryan. Besides Iskandaryan, who painfully tried to remain nuanced, they all took their turns enthusiastically spewing poison against Armenia.

Emil Danielyan who writes for the CIA operation known as Radio Liberty and ArmeniaNow, claimed at one point during his propaganda assault against Armenia - "...unfortunately, I am not an optimist... there is no such change on the horizon... and I think it would take some major upheaval, some kind of a revolution to put Armenia on a really democratic path..." Not to be seen outdone on his home turf by his colleague's words, one of Washington's main servants in Armenia, agent Richard Giragosian, went a step further. Replying to an Azeri audience member who was apparently under the hopeful impression that Armenia is politically descending into chaos and isolation (thanks to how the republic was portrayed by panel participants), agent Richard Giragosian said - "If it's chaos [in Armenia], then I like chaos, because it may threaten entrenched power".

Major upheaval! Revolution! Chaos! All this simply to set Armenia on the wonderful path to "democracy", as envisioned by Washington of course...

Like I have been saying, these self-destructive peasants are the Armenian version of Libya's self-destructive NTC. These filth (and we have a lot of them in the homeland and in the diaspora) would be the ones on CNN and BBC enthusiastically explaining and excusing the NATO bombing of Armenia if God forbid that day ever arrives. And believe me, that day would arrive the very next day after Armenia is deprived of its Russian military presence.

Western agent Giragosian's fear-mongering rhetoric and Western mercenaries Emil Danielyan's and Levon Barseghyan's utter pessimism were interesting to observe. These shameless servants of the Western alliance obviously felt confidant and empowered that they are speaking on behalf of the empire within the empire. They voluntarily arrived in the imperial court to publicly kiss the emperor ass. I'm sure they were wined and dined and their pockets lined, as a result as well. Only persons missing from the panel were Raffi Hovannisian and Paruyr Hayrikian.

Nevertheless, the only thing the panel group accomplished was to simply air Armenia's dirty laundry for Washington, the holy and anointed one that decides who is good and who is bad in this world. This is one of the manners with which the empire politically exploits against Armenia. These proud Armos participated in the information war against Armenia. Gatherings of self-destructive peasants such as this is how Western powers organize, inspire, fund and sometimes arm opposition groups similar to what they have done in Libya, Syria and Iran. Having said that, the only ones I blame here are the Armenian participants.

The entire premise under which these types of discussions take place is fundamentally flawed. I am all for civil society and human rights, but what's going on here goes well beyond promoting "democratic values" in Armenia. What we have on our hands here is a persistent and powerful information war against Armenia. The Western world, including the United States, took hundreds years to reach where it is today. [They are where they are today due to wars of plunder, genocide and human exploitation, but that's another story.] Under what authority does the political West criticize and attack nations that are not as developed? What right does the West have to impose its system upon others? What right does it have to rate/label/categorize nations?

Similar to what imperial powers did in the past with religion, the very notion of democracy and human rights today have been weaponized by Washington. This is causing the leadership in developing nations to go on the defense and in the process curb some societal freedoms that are being used by Western powers to undermine the developing state.

Think of it this way: A highly advanced extraterrestrial power descends to earth and forcefully imposes its "values" on us earthlings. Those who accept this highly developed force are enslaved by it, those who oppose it are marked for destruction.

I am being a bit dramatic to make a valid point: Washington has no right to tell nations such ash China, Russia, Iran and Armenia how to conduct themselves. For all intents and purposes, the aforementioned nations are fledgling nations that similar to Western nations will require generations to fully develop. Armenians need to learn to stop participating in their destructive games. Armenia needs political evolution, not a Western sponsored revolution.

Moreover, this should also finally put to rest the idea that John Evans is one of the "good guys" from Washington. What happened with John Evans several years ago was staged so that he could become the overseer of the empire's Armenian community. John Even is how Washington control its subjects. The panel discussion you are about to watch was titled "Lessons Learned From 20 Years of Independence and Statebuilding". I would like to add that the only real lesson that should have been learned during the past twenty years was to stay as far away from Washington as possible.

Lessons Learned From 20 Years of Independence and Statebuilding: Armenia: http://www.carnegieendowment.org/201...g-armenia/7w0z

Arevagal
------

Whenever an American or European mentions that "these are independent people for sure", we know that it's the contrary... look at the video in the above link. Even in two minutes you see their biasedness. Disgusting people. Lying and deception is their weapon, "March 2008, peaceful demonstrations", of course, just ignore the grenades the demonstrators were throwing and the weapons they were using. I can't even continue watching, because of disgust, knowing that Armenians are willingly for money and other stupid means, want to destroy their country. Somehow, all these disgusting propaganda war and information is sponsored by the US, and the irony is, even though they are working against Armenian interests, Armenians naively believe in their "peaceful" intentions; it's because their propaganda and media campaign is successful.