My Reservations with the Dashnaks

[Serjik]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

Bro dont know who u are but No Armo has the right to be disillusioned with Armenia. Thats cheep excuse, face it money will be wasted like everywhere else on Gods world, not only in Armenia. Even if 1/4 of the money reached it targeted that its good for me. But yeah we need to work on it to improve it not abandon it like xxxxxs. Instead of talking nonesense show us all here what exactly the ARF has spent on in Armenia. I remember once an article I saw that said ARF had sent three hundred AK-47 to Karabagh in the early 90s and they were making it look as if the country was being saved from death by them No wonder they cant get more than five % of votes!

This is so gross.

I'm not a member of the ARF, but maybe the reason so many are disillusioned with Armenia is because they have poured so much money into this country they are now being accused of hating and gotten nothing but scorn in return. This money is of course going to the ex-KGB officers and oligarchs we, as Armenians (all of us, not just East/West), are obliged to hold in deference? No thank you.

[Eddo211]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

I would support them, however their hardline stand against Turkey makes them not be able to think outside the box, which can lead to failures.....they need better strategy.

As for the protocols, I am against them in principle but I think Serge played it very well. We ended up being the winners since the Turks were the ones who ultimately ended up not signing them thus making them look bad.

This is what I mean, they didn't see how Serge was playing this.

[TomServo]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

Bro dont know who u are but No Armo has the right to be disillusioned with Armenia. Thats cheep excuse, face it money will be wasted like everywhere else on Gods world, not only in Armenia. Even if 1/4 of the money reached it targeted that its good for me. But yeah we need to work on it to improve it not abandon it like xxxxxs. Instead of talking nonesense show us all here what exactly the ARF has spent on in Armenia. I remember once an article I saw that said ARF had sent three hundred AK-47 to Karabagh in the early 90s and they were making it look as if the country was being saved from death by them No wonder they cant get more than five % of votes!

Any Armenian has the right to be disillusioned with the Republic of Armenia (those most pessimistic are often immigrants from Armenia). And I wasn't just talking about the ARF, I was talking about the diaspora in general.

Also, can we add the word "bro" to the forum's word filter?

[Mos]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

Any Armenian has the right to be disillusioned with the Republic of Armenia (those most pessimistic are often immigrants from Armenia). And I wasn't just talking about the ARF, I was talking about the diaspora in general.

But we shouldn't allow us to bash and insult Armenia, especially in the diaspora for the whole world to see.

Also, can we add the word "bro" to the forum's word filter?

[Vahram]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

I am for anyone who is for ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NNKxHfQl-w

Getze Hayastan!

[Hye]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

hi to all
good old tashnak party. A lot has to be said here but please no hot heads getting angry if this tread is for glorifying everything they do let me know. I am not Tashnak nor Ramgavar nor Hnchakian nor I am part of any orginization or any cometee or anything I am Armenian my goal is to established a strong established Armenia. I have critisizm for all but the biggest share is for Tashnak NOT BECAUSE I HAVE BIAS OR ANYTHING BUT BECAUSE THEY ARE THE BIGGEST ONE THE OTHERS THEY MUST BE FIRST OF ALL TO CRITISIZE.

First of all I will start with Njteh a good man inteligent patriotic has a lot of good ideas and quotes azkagron is one of them in my opinion. He was defenately Dashnaktsakan but this doesn't mean Hanrabedakan party is not alowed to embrace him and his ideas and if they believe what this man presented or used to say or how he worked what he did they are free to take those ideas and make them one of their own in the end is Njteh the rpoperty of Dashnaks just because he was one? In most people's point of view specially in Lebanon, I can talk about Lebanon I live there, that is so Njteh is Tashnak so whoever is tashnak worships him and whoever is not hates him. Why? BECAUS HE IS TASHNAK. What a STUPID EVALUATION ....

People now we have an independant country for 20 years and for dacades they have been implementing zjtehs idea of tseghagron to its fullest with minor changes. intstead of being tseghagron it is GUSAGTSAgron. For any Tashnag I know and have met in Lebanon the Party comes first even before God Armenia even before Family. These people may accept critisizm about God Armenia thmselves or their parents brothers sisters but when you talk about the party a huge 'HOW DARE YOU' they don't even tolerate you. one can argue about Armenia being in the soviet union and this was essential. Well for TWENTY YEARS Armenia has been independant and not a mm change to the right direction. I repect Tashnaks for the fact they took their headquarters to Armenia and that is how an Armenian party should be not like the other so called "traditional parties" but their aproach ahsn't changed a bit in 20 years. just ask an average Tashnak hamagir or even people in the party why are you tashnak and not other they will say because of my family. In what world a membership to a party or being a fan of a party is because you are born in a family that is in that pary or a fan of that party most of them haven't even read the zrakir ganonakir havne't even done slitest research about the party. A famouse question I ask to Tashnaks is "Tashnaks now are 121 years old can you tell me the mistakes they have done?" almost no one can come up with a well argues logical explanation. Do you know people have told me Monte Melkonian is still an enemy to tashnaks in Lebanon because he was in ASALA. The name Monte is stilll black list among tashnaks. and to all those who will say the party isn't such well I don't car if the a few leadership in the party pretend or even if they are convinced of this and that look at the masses look at the members and fans they are the ones that count they give the charater of an Armenian or a tashnak and not this leader or that.

Protocols. In lebanon it was a huge fuss about the protocols people whnt to the strees they threw eggs on OUR president they started to hate them and every time I discussed the protocal with an Armenian (not just tashnak hnchaks and ramgavars too) THEY HAVEN'T EVEN READ THE PROTOCOL ONES. They dubbed Serj a traitor they equaled him to Talat or I donno what. When I was a child 9 years orl or so Karabakh war was over and my Tashnak friend again 9 years old was convincing me Tashnaks liberated Artsakh people 9 years old child giving opinon about who liberated Artsakh what the hell is going on??????? This much AROGENCE is too much from whoever. Even the Artsakhtsis don't come and say we liberated Artsakh they thank ALL ARMENIAN PEOPLE.

There was a tal about the Catolicosate of great house of CiliciaI have one question Armenia have been independant for 20 years now NO MORE SOVIET CONTROLED ECHMIADZIN why they hell a 10 mill people need two Catolicosates in the first place the CATHOLICS have one pope they are more than 1BILLION yet Armenians need two I understand throughtout history the needs but do we need now??????????? Like it or not Tashnaks control the catolicosate it is source of income (according to some people I myself need proof) and source of power.

there was a talk about the flag too Tashnaks they preserved the Armenian flag and I will add the Armenian anthem. About the flag I want to ask what the hell with the color orange oranges don't even grow in Armenia and sudenly it makes an apearance on the flag. This flag was created by the tashnak party who was the govenment then you want the Armenian flag go back in history look at the flags of the Armenian kingdoms. But about the falg I accept it with all my heart new independant state of Armenia adopted this flag and people for 20 years were brought under these colors and I love the flag I can't imagine Armenia without the yeraguyn. As for the anthem MAN COME ON it is the most redeculus anthem in all the world from lyrics and to the music they changed the lyrics a little bit to make it better but still sucks when they were going to change the TASHNAKS were the hardcore defenders of the anthem just because it was there's there isn't even one unbias Armenian poet or composer who would not want to change the anthem.

All this said I would like to add our future and present is Armenia not so called traditional parties or diaspora our first and formost goal is Armenia shidak tsegabashdutyun its time for tashnaks to listen to one of the intelectuals that was part of their party that they take a huge pride in him.

PS I don't want to talk about conspiracies about masons and stuff if someone has evidence please present it to us I myself am open to learn about it if not don't believe in hearsays let trencend from what our parents and grandparents were

[hrai]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

But we shouldn't allow us to bash and insult Armenia, especially in the diaspora for the whole world to see.

In my view a lot of Western Armenians have no regard for RA at all, never have done and never will.
That's why the failing Dashnaks signed away Kars and half the Republic in 1920. They didn't give a sh*t.
They knew what they were doing, the turcs knew what they were doing and even offered them safe passage to europe.
They were so blinded by power that they believed the western lies and some believe those western lies still.

[Hye]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

Hrair, can you present more historic evidence on how did tashnaks were able to do what you clame they did? Moreover the Democratic republic of Armenia was dominated by the EASTERN BEURO the western was weakened because the intelectuals becamse the victim of the Armenian Genocide. To give few examples of the prime ministers and chairmen from Wikipedia:
Hovhannes Kachaznouni prime minister Akhltskhe
Alexander khadisian from Tiblisi
Hamo ohandjanian prime minister Akhalkarak
Simon Vratsian prime minister Nor Nakhichevan
Avetis Aharonyan Chaieman of Armenian National counsil Igdir then part of Russian empire
Avetik Sahakyan chairman of Armenian national counsil Jalal-oghli, modern Stepanavan, Arme
as you can see all are from EASTERN ARMENIA and Dashnaktsutyun although now is strong mostly in the diaspora they were strong in eastern Armenia back then so you can't clame the western Armenians don't care of dasnak being representatives of western Armenia don't care about eastern Armenia or RA Besides this kind of catagorizing is wrong on EVERY level let us learn to be Armenian first and formost before being western eastern Artsakhtsi Javakhktsi or Tashnak hnchak hanrabedagan

[hrai]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

Hrair, can you present more historic evidence on how did tashnaks were able to do what you clame they did? Moreover the Democratic republic of Armenia was dominated by the EASTERN BEURO the western was weakened because the intelectuals becamse the victim of the Armenian Genocide. To give few examples of the prime ministers and chairmen from Wikipedia:
Hovhannes Kachaznouni prime minister Akhltskhe
Alexander khadisian from Tiblisi
Hamo ohandjanian prime minister Akhalkarak
Simon Vratsian prime minister Nor Nakhichevan
Avetis Aharonyan Chaieman of Armenian National counsil Igdir then part of Russian empire
Avetik Sahakyan chairman of Armenian national counsil Jalal-oghli, modern Stepanavan, Arme
as you can see all are from EASTERN ARMENIA and Dashnaktsutyun although now is strong mostly in the diaspora they were strong in eastern Armenia back then so you can't clame the western Armenians don't care of dasnak being representatives of western Armenia don't care about eastern Armenia or RA Besides this kind of catagorizing is wrong on EVERY level let us learn to be Armenian first and formost before being western eastern Artsakhtsi Javakhktsi or Tashnak hnchak hanrabedagan

Hye, look at : Richard G. Hovannisian : "The Republic of Armenia", Volume IV. (Between Crescent & Sickle : Partition & Sovietization). pages 390-402. Hye, if you want to reply please read the post !

I would rather believe Hovannisian than wiki-liar.

[Hye]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

Hrair, I’m sorry I don't have the book if you can provide a soft copy or at least the pages that you mean I would be more than glad.

As for Wikipedia being a liar: The information that I'm giving, which is the eastern bureau of the party was much stronger than the western one, isn’t from Wikipedia. I have read this in several books. To mention a few (Zoravar Antranik by Antranik Zelebian , Armenia: survival of nation by Christopher J. Walker) and some others which I can't remember it is research I have done during many years. This is not an analysis it is a fact I can confirm this fact by looking at the leaders of the Democratic Republic of Armenia. Vast majority of them are from Eastern Armenia. You can also confirm leaders of DRA being from Eastern Armenia from Wikipedia. If Wikipedia isn't good enough for you look at any other site on the internet talking about DRA. If internet isn't reliable for you look at any book talking about leaders of DRA. Look at the names of the prime ministers and council chairmen and their place of birth during that time you will find vast majority are from EASTERN Armenia and your argument ends here. The Western Bureau was in tatters because of the Armenian Genocide.
This is a link to a page where all the prime-ministers, chairman, ministers, etc. of DRA are mentioned with their biography vast majority of them are from Eastern Armenia or Russian Empire. To give some more examples you can check it yourself.

http://www.orientica.net/index.php?title=Leaders_of_Democratic_Republic_of_Armenia

ALL chairmen, prime ministers, Ministers of military affairs Ministers of Interior and ministers of foreign affairs are from eastern Armenia or Russian Empire. So with all due respect I think the analysis you give is wrong. The western Armenians first of all weren’t in power to betray Eastern Armenia.
Bottom line I will repeat again and again. FOR GOD SAKE STOP BLAMING EACH OTHERS EASTERN WESTERN. LET US BE ARMENIAN BY BLAMING WESTERNERS DON'T CARE ABOUT EASTERNERS OR I DONNO WHAT WE ARE DIGGING OUR OWN GRAVE.