Politics in Hayastan

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Two pages of depressing arguments that get us nowhere. This thread is not what it used to be.

Thats because everybody loves to post everything in this thread for some reason.....all of the two pages should be in the thread "Politics in Hayastan"

[Etchmiadzin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

- The oficer that was killed fired first his 9 bullets in his pistol at them, and they were forced to return fire.
- They are keeping the control on a large barracks complex, full of arms, since it was one of the main reserves of the police force.
- Osipian, a wll known police head, and an other general of the police, whent first in to negociate a surrender, but where kept as hostage during first hours.

Ok let me get this right an armed group storm a police station, kill one officer and wound several others and somehow the police is responsible for that.
What should the police have done offered them tea?
I get it, you want to get rid of Serj but damn. Its that type of mindset that can make a Safarov innocent and a Markayan the bad guy.

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Ok let me get this right an armed group storm a police station, kill one officer and wound several others and somehow the police is responsible for that.
What should the police have done offered them tea?
I get it, you want to get rid of Serj but damn. Its that type of mindset that can make a Safarov innocent and a Markayan the bad guy.

I think the problem is you trying to find the reasons to the problem by looking at the end result.

However if you look at the source and origin to the problem you will come to the same conclusion.

Except of course if you are criminal defence lawyer.

.

[Zeytun]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

openDemocracy https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-rus...BSM2Ws.twitter

From civil disobedience to armed violence: political developments in Armenia
ARMINE ISHKANIAN 19 July 2016

On Sunday 17 July, a group of armed men, calling themselves the Sasna Dzrer (Daredevils of Sassoon) seized the Erebuni police station in Yerevan and took several policemen hostage. As of today, 19 July, the siege continues, but there has been little proper analysis of why this event occurred.

According to the statement released by Sasna Dzrer on Sunday, their “primary demand” is the resignation of Armenia’s president Serzh Sargsyan and the establishment of a new government. Additional demands include the release of their friend and comrade in arms Jirair Sefilyan, along with other political prisoners.

The current siege of Erebuni police station is connected to the recent four day war in Karabakh — the group accuses the current authorities of “endangering the security” of the country. They claim that peaceful means of protest and mobilisation have failed and for that reason, they have come to the conclusion that the “Only way to save the future of the [Armenian] nation and the homeland is through popular revolt and an armed rebellion”.

Unsurprisingly, the Armenian government, pro-government politicians and some political commentators have strongly condemned the actions, with some labelling it a terrorist plot and the organisers, terrorists.

To be very clear, I am in no way condoning the use of violence. However, as a scholar of civil society and social movements, who has studied civil society movements and organisations in Armenia for many years, my aim in this article is to provide a broader context and analysis of the unfolding events and causal factors.

In other words, I ask: why is this happening now and how is it related to past political developments and civil/political mobilisations in Armenia?

Who are the Sasna Dzrer?
Most of the men of Sasna Dzrer group involved in the siege are members, sympathizers or have ties to the Founding Parliament group. Founding Parliament, which was previously known as the Pre-Parliament movement, emerged from the Sardarapat movement in 2012. Since then, it has been calling for regime change and the resignation of Serzh Sargysan.

While the Founding Parliament includes people from different walks of life and diverse professional backgrounds, many of the Sasna Dzrer are former soldiers, or as they are locally known, “freedom fighters” (azadamardikner) who fought in the first Karabakh war in the 1990s. Jirair Sefilyan, who was one of the originators of the Founding Parliament, was imprisoned by the authorities on 23 June 2016, on charges of illegal procurement, transportation and storing of weapons. Sefilyan is a Lebanese-born Armenian who moved to Armenia over 20 years ago and was a military commander in the Karabakh War. Whilst living in Armenia for over two decades, his application for Armenian citizenship has been consistently rejected.

Along with over 90 other civil society and political activists, my research team and I interviewed Jirair Sefilyan as part of the research on civil society and social movements in Armenia (2011 – 2015). I thus have first-hand knowledge of his views on the political situation in Armenia and the role of political and civic activism. However, since all our interviews were conducted in accordance with LSE’s ethical standards of ensuring anonymity of respondents, it is not possible for me to quote him here.

That said, I can identify some of those same ideas reflected in his public speeches. Sefilyan has always been upfront with his criticism of the authorities and has often called for regime change. Together with his team at the Founding Parliament he has organised rallies and protests to that effect. It was after one such a rally held on 4 May 2015 when Sefilyan, together with other Founding Parliament members, Garegin Chukaszyan, Varuzhan Avetisyan, Pavel Manukyan, and Gevorg Safaryan, were arrested.

In response to these arrests, on 6 May 2015, Human Rights Watch issued a statement in which it “expressed concern that the Founding Parliament members were being targeted for their peaceful political beliefs and affiliation and that the charges were intended to interfere with their right to freedom of thought, expression, and assembly, as protected under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the European Convention on Human Rights, to which Armenia is a party.”

The statement goes on to say that the Founding Parliament’s booklet and advertisement for the rally called for “civil disobedience and peaceful political change”. Of the five, two of the men, Sefilyan and Safaryan, are currently incarcerated, Chukaszyan’s whereabouts are unknown, and Avetisyan and Manukyan are involved in the Sasna Dzrer’s siege at the Erebuni police station. It is worth noting that the most recent peaceful march organised for the release of Sefilyan and Safaryan took place in Yerevan on 7 July 2016.

Symbolism and signifiers
The name Sasna Dzerer comes from the Armenian epic tale The Daredevils of Sassoon, whose origins date back to the 8th-10th centuries.

The epic tells the story of how four generations of men from a legendary family, which included the brothers Sanasar and Balthazar, Great Mher, David of Sassoon and Little Mher, rose against despotic rules to liberate the Armenians. The tale is very popular in Armenian culture and the heroes in the epic tale are fearless warriors, who are also slightly mad or crazy (dzour), hence the name dzrer. In invoking this moniker, the group has chosen a name that is full of symbolism and pregnant with meaning. Proclaiming themselves latter-day Sasna Dzrer, they intend to draw links to Armenia’s past heritage of liberation struggles and to perhaps also legitimate their use of arms.

While Armenians have taken to Facebook to debate whether the Sasna Dzrer are heroes or terrorists, if we take a step back, can we not say that these men appear to personify the stereotype of the ideal or real man in Armenian society ?

According to the stereotype, a real Armenian man is the (hyper)-masculinized, heterosexual, fearless protector and defender of the weak (read, women, children and the elderly). Having long promoted this stereotype, it hasn’t been as easy for the authorities to discredit this group of men as they did when criticising human rights defenders or the LGBT and feminist.

While the former use the language of nationalism and national pride, the latter, who speak of human rights and democracy are often presented by the authorities and in the Armenian media as grant-eaters who promote western/foreign values and norms.

Contextualising the siege
In the past six years, there have been a number of civic initiatives in Armenia which have demanded greater democracy and justice, challenged what they see as the reigning oligarchic regime, and criticised human rights abuses and rule of law. These protests and civic mobilizations of recent years have been over mining and environmental issues, the unlawful seizure of public spaces for private business, the hikes in electricity and transport fees, the privatisation of pensions, etc.

The civic initiatives have won symbolically significant but isolated victories. Moreover, due to some activists’ overtly anti-or apolitical stance, on the whole these movements have done little to alter the structural inequalities and patterns of governance in the country.Today 35% of Armenians live below the poverty line and there is wide income inequality, as the oligarchs continue to rule with impunity and violence.

Reading the group’s statement and watching the video interviews published by opposition MP Nikol Pashinyan, one hears some similar demands from the Sasna Dzrer as those previously raised by peaceful, democratic and rights activists.

For instance, the Sasna Dzrer statement ends with the following sentences: “The time has come for freedom, dignity, justice, and rights. We are the owners of our country”. The last phrase (“We are the owners of our country”) was coined and popularised by young civic activists. The latter spoke of democracy and human rights, but these discourses have been notably absent (at least in the published) speeches and interviews of the Sasna Dzrer members.

While firmly rejecting the use of violence and arms, judging from the discussions on Facebook, it appears that some pro-democracy and human rights activists argue that they can understand the frustration and anger driving the men. This is in part because they themselves have come up against the unresponsive and coercive authorities and officials. On 19 July, a group of human rights NGOs from Human Rights House Armenia published a statement condemning the use of force, arrest and detention of “peaceful citizens” who had gathered in the streets and squares of Yerevan. The urge for a peaceful political situation stating that use of force by any side “is unacceptable”.

When my research team and I analysed the protests that emerged in Armenia and globally since 2011, we analysed the demands, motivations and slogans of different movements. We found that dignity, social justice, and democracy were broadly shared aims in movements around the globe from Tahrir Square to Syntagma Square.

But we also discovered that the protests had largely failed to achieve their aims and were often met with unresponsive governments which at times responded with violence, coercion, the penalisation and criminalisation of protest, and the marginalisation of opposition demands.

Social scientists have long analysed social movements and mobilisations, both peaceful and violent, to understand why such events occur and how they develop over time. They have found that in past decades, as today, movements choose different tactics and strategies. Violence is but one of those.

The question that remains is why this group of men chose to use violence at this particular time and more importantly, what will be the consequences of this violent action for those who are struggling to create a more democratic, peaceful and just Armenia.

[Artsakh]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

Props to Nikol Pashinyan. Despite being a bitter opponent/critic of the Serj administration, he did his best to put the crowd at ease, even warning that there are those amidst the crowd intent on using the gathering for political purposes by foreign/dark elements of ousting Serj. Armenia does not need this now, and as an opposition what he did was very commendable, I salute my hat!

By comparison, Zaruhi postanjyan in effect joined in the hostage-takers/murder of an officer's calls for serj to step down.

I hope this ends quick before it get's or is driven out of hand.

[Azad]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

openDemocracy

ARMINE ISHKANIAN 19 July 2016

... what will be the consequences of this violent action for those who are struggling to create a more democratic, peaceful and just Armenia.

< Is that line from a porn movie?

The question should be asked, is it yet another coincidence that Armine Ishkanian with a title of Social Policy and Development (States & NGOs) from the school of London School of Economics (LSE) the same school that Soros graduated from with his backing is talking of “struggling to create a more democratic, peaceful and just Armenia”. Maybe our little subservient puppy for the brexit, should focus on the constant struggle of the Scots seeking independence by creating their own democratic and peaceful Scotland. The same applies with the Irish independence by creating their own democratic and peaceful Ireland.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lseinpictures/13285708185/

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/armine-ishkanian-29217b5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

[londontsi]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

Props to Nikol Pashinyan. Despite being a bitter opponent/critic of the Serj administration, he did his best to put the crowd at ease, even warning that there are those amidst the crowd intent on using the gathering for political purposes by foreign/dark elements of ousting Serj. Armenia does not need this now, and as an opposition what he did was very commendable, I salute my hat!

By comparison, Zaruhi postanjyan in effect joined in the hostage-takers/murder of an officer's calls for serj to step down.

I hope this ends quick before it get's or is driven out of hand.

I agree with you with one caveat.

Statements make by imprisoned entities cannot and shouldn't be taken at face value.

Serge has been emulating the sultan to the east for a while now, guessing I suppose "If he (junior sultan) gets away with it why cant I".

Now he may have started to emulate the sultan to the west, having in mind the Ocalan model.

.

[arakeretzig]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

The system is rigged to its core in armenia. It needs radical change. Culling the culprits, ie oligarchs and everyone who has any links to them, including people who have worked in top jobs for the last 20 years, like chief of police, head of army. It's the only way. I think people are beginning to realise this, but they don't care enough to do anything about it. Now this group comes and has the balls to start the wheel rolling. But I doubt anything will come out it. The people who care gave up and left Armenia, and now everybody else are waiting to see if they can do the same.

[londontsi]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

I agree with you with one caveat.

Statements make by imprisoned entities cannot and shouldn't be taken at face value.

Serge has been emulating the sultan to the east for a while now, guessing I suppose "If he (junior sultan) gets away with it why cant I".

Now he may have started to emulate the sultan to the west, having in mind the Ocalan model.

.

I much rather believe him because he is free .... for now

.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

some info from the place.
- internet coverage is cut in most of the district, to avoid communication between the boys and the people.
- the phone lines of the boys beseiged are all cut. Nevertheless some communication is still possible with a few activists.
- it is very hot in the daytime nowdays, so people gather at sunset and all night, to avoid the police attack against the beseiged.
- there are huge police concentrations deployed, mostly against the people, with all armor, etc...
- there is a good reason why a nation at war has an ill equipped army of less than 70.000, yet a police force of 20.000, armed with best armors...
- most of the time there was more than 3 policemen for one citizen.
- yet the morale of most young policeman is evidently affected. The old officers are sworn tchekists, yet the young ones seem to realise there is something wrong...
- everything is done to create provocations, so the police can smash the crowd with an aliby.
- total black out on events on the ground in armenian media, a lot of misinformation.
- roads from the marzes to Yerevan are all under strict control, to avoid arrival of people to the city. Strict control in the Metro too.
- yet arround 2000 people just next to police cordon, and others at liberty square (not been there, but people talk)
- virtually no political parties present, yet spontaneously, people gather in hope of avoiding bloodshed.
- At one point, gunfire in the air from the boys, since they were misinformed by the police, as an attack was underway on the people gathered out the cordon.
- 2 ambulanced took out woonded ?? forcing the crowd, while they had a free road from the opposite direction towards Erebuni hospital...
- rumor goes, that Serjik did bringed in the russian special speznatz unit known as Alpha, flown in directly to Gyumri. 75 men.
- impression is, that the regime does not need a surrender....
- son of Pavlik did serve in our spznaz in NKR, and returned from service not long ago.
- half of the boys inside are very young ones....