Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

[Hakob]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

I am glad that my thoughts are understood guys.
I ask myself a question, ok, what can we do?
Number one is, despite fact that we have no much room to maneuver, but we can politically deviate as much as we can. To the point of political blackmails with our ally('s). Russia is very sensitive about political situation in Armenia. It worries about prowest Orange revolutions not only there but all the other post soviet countries. It is willing to go to length to ensure that does not happen. But one thing is clear, Moscow has understood that old soviet tactics cannot be anymore. As it is easing its own population to sort of heavily controlled democratic environment, it has to allow others into letting democratic populist tendencies prevail. But how to do that without letting western hand into rolling orange revolutions?
The only guarantee, is the strong pro Russia sentiment and criticism to western policies towards that nations.
The example is latest events in Armenia. As soon as it became known that latest protest were not about any government toppling but against corruption and did not have anti Russian sentiment, Moscow was more forthcoming to our needs. Price of gas was lowered. The 200 million deal approved. Moscow knows that if it turns blind eye to our society, anti Russian and prowest feelings will take over quickly.
As I understand, our government has to show very strong western directed openness and willingness to engage.
But the opposition( true one, not sponsored) has to grow much stronger, but with highlighted pro Russian character.
That way it would be possible to change situation and economy for the better internally, at the same time strengthening our position internationally.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

I am glad that my thoughts are understood guys.
I ask myself a question, ok, what can we do?
Number one is, despite fact that we have no much room to maneuver, but we can politically deviate as much as we can. To the point of political blackmails with our ally('s). Russia is very sensitive about political situation in Armenia. It worries about prowest Orange revolutions not only there but all the other post soviet countries. It is willing to go to length to ensure that does not happen. But one thing is clear, Moscow has understood that old soviet tactics cannot be anymore. As it is easing its own population to sort of heavily controlled democratic environment, it has to allow others into letting democratic populist tendencies prevail. But how to do that without letting western hand into rolling orange revolutions?
The only guarantee, is the strong pro Russia sentiment and criticism to western policies towards that nations.
The example is latest events in Armenia. As soon as it became known that latest protest were not about any government toppling but against corruption and did not have anti Russian sentiment, Moscow was more forthcoming to our needs. Price of gas was lowered. The 200 million deal approved. Moscow knows that if it turns blind eye to our society, anti Russian and prowest feelings will take over quickly.
As I understand, our government has to show very strong western directed openness and willingness to engage.
But the opposition( true one, not sponsored) has to grow much stronger, but with highlighted pro Russian character.
That way it would be possible to change situation and economy for the better internally, at the same time strengthening our position internationally.

When Russia was afraid of an anti russian mood, they suddenly reminded of an old promise, already 3 years old, about Iskanders..., you remember who reminded it , from which outlets? The 200 M new debt was supposed to finance it....
And as soon as things calmed down, where are those Iskanders?

[Serjik]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

Hey fake Armenian, first of all, youre comparison is just so stupid because jews and israel own america. All us politicians are owned by jews! There are so many well educated Armenians in russia with a lot of money. So instead of promoting closer armenian relations with russia to make armenia like an israel for russia you devote your personal time to promote the exact opposite, to want armenians fear russia and you want russians distrust armenia. Youre a dirtbag imposter with soro funded agenda here. Your time will come.

Once again, let us be specific: What specific arm type was given to any enemy of Israel, which might have slightly endangered the existence of Israel? Should I remind you that Russia is not selling to Kazakstan (to try to find equivalent of Saouds, now day 'ally' , but potential enemy??), but to one enemy who is actually firing on us everyday... When? Did Israel not have 10 times that type of armement, and much more modern? Let us just know this... then we will discuss the rest. The bias in your statement is: peace is not insured by balance, but by overwhelming disbalance of supplies to one and only one strategic ally, in a given configuration. It's a bit different, isn't it? Concerning Egypt. It's so obvious, I do not need to discuss. Egypt received its first pistol, after flat capitulation, and forced alliance with Israel.... None of their F-16 can ever fly, without an OK from Jerusalem.... So be specific. It doesn't hurt. Prove your point , even on details, then your hypothesis might be credible.

[Armynia]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

When Russia was afraid of an anti russian mood, they suddenly reminded of an old promise, already 3 years old, about Iskanders..., you remember who reminded it , from which outlets? The 200 M new debt was supposed to finance it....
And as soon as things calmed down, where are those Iskanders?

No matter what you say the actual contracts have been already signed between Armenia and Russia on Iskanders.

[Hakob]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

When Russia was afraid of an anti russian mood, they suddenly reminded of an old promise, already 3 years old, about Iskanders..., you remember who reminded it , from which outlets? The 200 M new debt was supposed to finance it....
And as soon as things calmed down, where are those Iskanders?

Actually, strong anti Russian developments anywhere prompt Russia to support the opposing factor stronger. In our case it's Azerbaijan. It has proven to calm down anti Russian sentiment in our case, which, also being put in center artificially and occupying larger than necessary political space, weakens our opposition and lessens ability for any meaningful restructuring here.
It also weakens our government's influence on Moscow, as it becomes more dependent from it and less able to carry any independent dialog with west.
It is very wrong to hang on to any individual issue and dilute our weight in our relations with anybody, more so with Russia, because any one of those issues, like Iskander or where Permiakov will be tried has no effect other than negative in overall character in our goals and abilities to achieve them. It actually damages and limits our ability to influence our ally and foes.
What we are after, what we strive to achieve externally, like security issues, or internally, like economic situation, gets only less focus and efforts at the end because, given our complicated geopolitical situation, the level of our Political discussions and actions have to be much broader and layered. Along with being studied and carefull.
After all those years, it is only counterproductive when one after another, issues are highlighted and heralded as indicatives of any political or economic developments for which they really don't have or should not have any bearing.

Let me be specific. Like the iskanders. If Russia cannot give them to us, surely there are other things that it can or can do that will strengthen our defense.
It is how we react to any development is the problem. If finally Russia gives us those iskanders, it will demand a heavier counter action from us because we have put so much importance and efforts into it than necessary. It has became an indicative of our relation and weight with Russia, which it is not in reality. It is us that cornered and limited our political power by being obsessed by that issue.
Instead, we should be talking of continual flow of Russian support as s basis for that relation that is deep and multyleyered.

[Haykakan]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

"we should be talking of continual flow of Russian support as s basis for that relation that is deep and multyleyered"
It seems to me that Armenia seems to lack sophistication when dealing with external but particularly internal issues. There is a glaring lack of imagination on how to improve the domestic situation. We do better in international relations but as Hakob mentioned, we are lacking here as well. It should be the other way around. The leaders have far more control over the domestic environment than the external international environment. I wonder what is the reason for this disparity?

[Vrej1915]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

No matter what you say the actual contracts have been already signed between Armenia and Russia on Iskanders.

Unfortunatly not yet.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

Hey fake Armenian, first of all, youre comparison is just so stupid because jews and israel own america. All us politicians are owned by jews! There are so many well educated Armenians in russia with a lot of money. So instead of promoting closer armenian relations with russia to make armenia like an israel for russia you devote your personal time to promote the exact opposite, to want armenians fear russia and you want russians distrust armenia. Youre a dirtbag imposter with soro funded agenda here. Your time will come.

Eshi kuragnerin, en el serjiki rojov, khri degh tnoghe togh badaskhani....

[Hakob]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

N

"we should be talking of continual flow of Russian support as s basis for that relation that is deep and multyleyered"
It seems to me that Armenia seems to lack sophistication when dealing with external but particularly internal issues. There is a glaring lack of imagination on how to improve the domestic situation. We do better in international relations but as Hakob mentioned, we are lacking here as well. It should be the other way around. The leaders have far more control over the domestic environment than the external international environment. I wonder what is the reason for this disparity?

Actually, our government does not have sufficient internal control as well as external. For external, even our friends do favors when "they" need it, not us.
And for internal, when was it that opposition unified itself in a singular idea around youth and population in general
, to force any changes?
As soon as any movement or any event starts, every faction starts playing the toon that their foreign sponsors want to hear, thus keeping public confused and hopeless (not to say angry).
That is why our government has a firm control internally.
We should remember, every government, including western democracies, do make changes only on accord of organized and literate opposition aside from self survival.
So why do we demand anything better from ours when they do not face any meaningful opposition?
Any small event and everybody outside government starts the "sky is falling"...
That is a futile effort to destabilize in order to rip pieces from falling government. People see that. And since public knows that the fall of government might lead to the fall of country, it will not head or even allow this adventurers take any power.
You might say I am talking big? But look at today's opposition leaders. Which one does not have a large public section that despises them?
The youth and public generally started pulling themselfs away from traditional opposition.
I don't remember where I read, but it is a rule that government facing weak opposition will eventually weaken too.
By strong opposition, I mean strong driven with pure ideals, not funded like Ukraine's cookie fed one. That type of opposition might destroy country.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

Actually, strong anti Russian developments anywhere prompt Russia to support the opposing factor stronger. In our case it's Azerbaijan. It has proven to calm down anti Russian sentiment in our case, which, also being put in center artificially and occupying larger than necessary political space, weakens our opposition and lessens ability for any meaningful restructuring here.
It also weakens our government's influence on Moscow, as it becomes more dependent from it and less able to carry any independent dialog with west.
It is very wrong to hang on to any individual issue and dilute our weight in our relations with anybody, more so with Russia, because any one of those issues, like Iskander or where Permiakov will be tried has no effect other than negative in overall character in our goals and abilities to achieve them. It actually damages and limits our ability to influence our ally and foes.
What we are after, what we strive to achieve externally, like security issues, or internally, like economic situation, gets only less focus and efforts at the end because, given our complicated geopolitical situation, the level of our Political discussions and actions have to be much broader and layered. Along with being studied and carefull.
After all those years, it is only counterproductive when one after another, issues are highlighted and heralded as indicatives of any political or economic developments for which they really don't have or should not have any bearing.

Let me be specific. Like the iskanders. If Russia cannot give them to us, surely there are other things that it can or can do that will strengthen our defense.
It is how we react to any development is the problem. If finally Russia gives us those iskanders, it will demand a heavier counter action from us because we have put so much importance and efforts into it than necessary. It has became an indicative of our relation and weight with Russia, which it is not in reality. It is us that cornered and limited our political power by being obsessed by that issue.
Instead, we should be talking of continual flow of Russian support as s basis for that relation that is deep and multyleyered.

All the problem is well resumed in your last 2, or 3 posts.
You are considering relations between us and Russia, if you permit this explanation, on a 'honest marchant' approach.

And all the misunderstanding comes from that.
Of course, the solution is the contrary, given the facts you base your analysis.
For more convenience, let me continue in Armenian:

- Rusnere votch megin, aravel yeves mez, teguz jordi degh tchen trel irantz gaysutyunum. Mez aravel kan myusnerin, hentz et gur yev badmaganoren anhimen russasirutyan badjarav.
- Himi tcharji hed manramassnel te ta intchkan tang e mez vra nsdel, en oritz vor mez tvatsel e rssi orhnyal/anidzyal vodi hed kordz prnel.... kardezi vra ta yerevum e.
- Garevore intch a mnum anel, vor mer hamar lav lini, ayl votch te intchn a hadjeli rssin, torkin, amerigatzun te barssigin.

- I harg e mez tzerendu e hamakordzagtzel rssi hed, votch havassar, vorovhedev votch mi gaysrutyun tchi hamari mer nman pokr yergrin ir hamar havassar, paytz arnvazen mi kitch pokhshaved baymannerum: aysinken votch miyayn rssi tidangyunitz shahaved, ayl nayev mi kitch mer.
- Tjpakhdapar, rssi hed et lezun tchi antzel, tchi antznum, yev tchi antzni, kani menk tchenk hamagerbvel rssi tajan pnavorutyane, yev essd aytm mer kordzelavodje pokhel.
- Mer tidangyunitz, hentz rssi meghkov, mer haraperutyunnere hassel en aynkan jarahad pagughi, vor mer miyag lzage mnadzel e, irantz basan klkhnerin dal u enhanrabess irantz mintchev Volgograd kshele. Mite ta pnagan e?
I harg e votch.
Paytz passdoren mez votch mi urish lzag, mitchotch tchen toghel.
Mite ta mer shaheritz e pkhum?
I harg e votch. Paytz eli nuyne: urish variant tchka, vor russe mi kitch mer hed hashvi nssdi.

Te yete ta a mnatzel, el et intchbissi sbarnalik , yete sagh or tzer aratchargadz rssi hanteb, azkovin vorlizutyamp sbaghvenk?
Vorbeszi et vertchi jarahad sbarnalike ashkhadi, russe bidi havada, vor menk garank ir jankodads lome ir klkhin dal.
Hentz tra vakhen a miyayn iran zkassdatzenum.
Tra hamar el gur russasirutyune miyayn hadutzvum e mer dgherki, arten shudov nayev yerekheki yev bizeki aryamp.