Liberation of Western Armenia

[KanadaHye]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Then you must beat them with Democracy and be united like Israel, or 70 million Turks for that matter.

There isn't really 70 million Turks if you don't count the Kurds and other minorities. There is probably more likely half of that. Just need be prepared to move the border when a war involving Turkey erupts in the region. Really, a lot of Turkey is concentrated around Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir. The Eastern half is practically vacant and ready for the taking. If the Greeks take Istanbul, the Kurds lead a rebellion, Armenia can just walk in and take over what's left in the aftermath. Of course this isn't likely to happen but what is more likely is Turkey dissolving to form the old Roman Empire and Armenia getting its lands back as a result of European diplomacy.

[Davo88]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Why would there be a major war involving Turkey, which doesn't directly involve Armenia? And under what circumstances do you think Turkey would dissolve?

[Eddo211]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

My last post on this thread.......The Road to Western Armenia is through the East.

Chem haskanoom inchek uzoom, spassoom, kartszoom.

[Armanen]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Why would there be a major war involving Turkey, which doesn't directly involve Armenia? And under what circumstances do you think Turkey would dissolve?

Maybe he is referring to the coming world war. I doubt that Armenia will not be involved somehow, just as I doubt Armenia and turkey will be on the same side.

[Federate]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

http://western-armenia.org/

[hipeter924]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

I doubt a liberation will be necessarily, the Turkish government is doing a good enough job at dividing the country as is.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

http://western-armenia.org/

Wonder what happened to the domain name westernarmenia.org?

Many years ago I owned it, then let it go since I was doing nothing with it, then someone else got it and also did nothing with it.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

ISTANBUL: Hidden Armenians in Turkey expose their identities

From: Katia Peltekian <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 10:09:32 PDT
Hurriyet, Turkey
June 24 2011


Hidden Armenians in Turkey expose their identities

Friday, June 24, 2011
VERCİHAN ZİFLİOĞLU
DİYARBAKIR - Hürriyet Daily News

The stories of Armenians who had concealed their identities for
decades have begun surfacing over recent years as Turkey continues
treading its path toward democratization. Many of them live under
their Sunni - Muslim or Kurdish - Alevi identities, although they
still define themselves ethnically as Armenians.

"Race, identity and religion are distinct affairs. I've been raised as
a Sunni-Muslim, and live as one, but I deny neither my past nor my
culture. Religion is not important, but I want to know my language,"
Gaffur Türkay, a prominent Diyarbakır Armenian who identifies as a
Sunni Muslim, told the Hürriyet Daily News last week.

Türkay was 15 when he learned that his real surname is Ohanyan. His
father was a pilgrim, and Türkay grew up with Sunni-Muslim culture.
Muslim Armenians in the southeastern province of Diyarbakır recognize
each other, he said.

"The perception of Islam [in Diyarbakır] is very important," he said.
"[The people in Diyarbakır] can tolerate you up to a certain point
when you say you are Armenian. Things change, however, when you touch
upon Islam."

Türkay added that Christian Armenians look down upon Muslim Armenians.

"[They behave] as if we had a choice in the matter. The Armenian
identity must bond around race, not religion. Religion can be chosen,
but not race," he said.

Yusuf Halaçoğlu, the former president of the Turkish Historical
Society, or TTK, said the situation in Diyarbakır could be seen in
other parts of the country. "There are hidden Armenians not just in
Diyarbakır but all across Turkey, and now they are also revealing
their identities," he told the Daily News over the phone. Halaçoğlu
was removed from his post at the TTK following public response to his
remarks claiming that Kurds living in Turkey were actually Turcomans
and that Kurdish - Alevis were of Armenian descent.

"My remarks were falsely conveyed to the public," Kalaçoğlu said. "I
shared this information with the deceased Hrant Dink as well. I tried
to highlight under which identities those Armenians who supposedly
died in 1915 still continue to exist," he said, adding that he
possessed records of Armenians who concealed their identities.

"This is information emanating from records [contained] in the United
States archives. I have records [that indicate] the villages and
locations they reside in, and the names of the clans they live under,"
said Halaçoğlu.

İsmet Şahin, a Hemşin researcher and politician, said that, despite a
grain of truth in Halaçoğlu's comments, his remarks were intended to
insult Armenians,

Islamicized Armenians who live in the provinces of Artvin and Rize in
Turkey's eastern Black Sea region define themselves as Hemşins and
speak a dialect of the Armenian language. Hamshenite Armenians still
maintain their Christian traditions, even though they define
themselves as Muslims, according to Şahin.

His research indicated that a large portion of hidden Armenians in
Turkey live under the Kurdish - Alevi identity, Şahin added.

"The numbers of Armenians who changed their identities [can be found
in Turkey's] state archives," he over the phone. Turkey's state
archives contain many documents about this subject, Şahin further
noted and added that Halaçoğlu had access to this information as well.

"There were elements of truism in [Halaçoğlu's] remarks, academically
speaking," Kazım Gündoğan, a researcher and documentarian, told the
Daily News in a phone interview, but "[Halaçoğlu] treated this subject
matter as political material." Gündoğan's family lives under the
Kurdish - Alevi identity in the southeastern province of Tunceli,
formerly known as Dersim.

"Despite the fact that [covert Armenians in Tunceli] define themselves
as Kurdish - Alevis, they have connections with the churches in
Istanbul. They pray out in nature," added Gündüz who said he conducted
his research by appealing to witnesses.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=hidden-armenians-in-turkey-expose-their-identities-2011-06-24

[Vrej1915]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Astarjian: Our Muslim Brothers

From: Mihran Keheyian <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 10:19:50 PDT
Astarjian: Our Muslim Brothers

http://www.armenianweekly.com/2011/06/24/our-muslim-brothers/

Fri, Jun 24 2011

By: Dr. Henry Astarjian

Even after 65 years I can almost feel it: the backhanded slap my
father unleashed on me for expressing an opinion that was as sinful as
condoning adultery. It hurt, and I carried its psychological scars
until very recently. That was not the norm for my father's authority;
I had the utmost freedom to talk to him and express diverse opinions
contrary to his - but not this one. His was constructed by his Armenian
nationalistic upbringing tainted with Ottoman norms, which had
prevailed in the overall thinking of Cilician Armenians. Mine was not.

My unorthodox expression came at a time when he was talking with his
friend Aharone about Christianity, especially the Apostolic Church and
Armenian nationalism. For them, the true Armenian was Christian and
belonged to none other than the Armenain Apostolic Church. Catholics
and Protestants were a sort of Armenians, their ethnicity somewhat
diluted by their religious, spiritual allegiance to Rome, and that of
Evangelicals to America, not Etchmiadzin. Both sects, in their
thinking, were people who had betrayed their Mother Church for money
and position, and therefore also their nationality. In a sense, they
were ranked as second-class Armenians.

Some 25 years later I heard the echoes of that conversation from
Beirut, where Antranig Urfalian had published his memoirs. In it he
had quoted my uncle, Dr. Krikor Astarjian, who as a keynote speaker of
a graduation ceremony in Nor Marash High School in Beirut, had said,
`A real Armenian is Apostolic.' Seated in the front row listening
eagerly were Armenian Catholic priests, bishops, and archbishops,
Protestant pastors and preachers, who were all guests of their
Apostolic counterparts.

`You,' he declared, addressing the front row, `ought to be ashamed of
yourselves for being tavanapokh (converts of faith). You have betrayed
the Armenian nation by defecting to an alien religion. It is incumbent
upon you, if you are true Armenians, to return to the Mother Sea.' A
deadly atmosphere, full of emotional diversity and upheaval, had
ensued. Urfalian says he remedied the faux-pas by taking control of
the microphone and saving the proceedings.

My father and Aharone had some anecdotes to prove their point: In the
pre-genocide era, when Armenian fedayees, organized by Armenian
Revolutionary Federation, bore arms to defend their villages, their
families, and their property, the non-Apostolic Armenian churches
erroneously believed that they were exempt from the Ottoman plans and
actions against the Armenians, because they enjoyed the protection of
America and the Vatican. So, based on this, their support for the
fedayees was weak, to say the least.

They were not alone in this delusion. Some Apostolic clergy believed
that the cause of the Turkish atrocities had been the Armenian
fedayees, who had provoked the government with their armed attacks.
Some Apostolic clergy who held this view even turned in some fedayees
to the Ottoman authorities in lieu of protection.

All their calculations were wrong. With Ottoman-Turkish planning and
implementation, the Turks and the Kurdish tribes committed the
Armenian Genocide, and they did not discriminate between Apostolic,
Catholic, or Protestant Armenians. They implemented the plan
regardless of faith: They were Armenians, and that was enough to be
slaughtered.

Today's argument is an extension of the one that earned me a
backhanded slap some six decades ago. The issue is resurrected by the
plans to settle a few dozen Muslim-Armenian families in Karabagh;
these are the Hamshens of Central Asia. Armenian Muslims! The social
impact of this on Karabagh Armenians and, by extension, the rest of
the Armenians of the world is speculative. There are over 400,000
Hamshen who live in the Trabzon area and Georgia. This is a sizable
population, larger than the population of Artsakh, who speak modified
Armenian, consider themselves Armenians, and demand recognition as
such. (see Alice Aliye Alt's Hamshen Armenians in the Mirror of
History).

Obviously this new ethnic situation does not sit well with the
chauvinist Turkish government who has done everything to evade the
mandates of the Lausanne Treaty, to which it is a signatory. They have
already denied the Greeks', Armenians', Assyrians', and other
minorities' rights proscribed by this treaty. The Hamshens' rise in
ethnicity awareness is another problem for the Turkish government to
deal with.

Recently Ismet Shahin, one prominent Hamshen-Armenian in the Istanbul
political world, decided to form a new political party after being
ostracized by the Turkish political establishment. Similarly the
political establishment denied seven Turkish-Armenian politicians the
opportunity to run for parliamentary elections on June 12.

A similar subject begging development is the issue of some 700,000 or
more Turkish-Armenians who are descendants of those forcefully
converted to Islam during the genocide of 1915. These people should
have the full right to openly claim their Armenian ethnic origin, and
to choose the religion they wish. It is incumbent upon all Armenian
political parties and entities, especially the ARF World Council,
which is scheduled to convene shortly, to raise awareness on this
vital issue and coin a strategy for action. The church hierarchies of
the four major Apostolic Seas have to take the initiative in this
matter, and bring their flock home.

This whole problem raises vital questions, which the Armenian
intelligentsia has to address with an open mind: Is it mandatory for
an Armenian to be a Christian, and an Apostolic at that? Can an ethnic
Armenian be a Zoroastrian? Can s/he be a Muslim? Were the
pre-Christian Armenian tribes Armenian? Were the Arshagunis,
Bagratunis, Artashesians, Tigran the Great, and other Tigrans,
Christians? Are Hamshens not Armenian because they are Muslim? Should
Hamshens not be wholeheartedly welcomed to our national cradle because
they are not Christians? Could we have true brothers who are Muslim?
Are they not Armenians because they are not Christians, and Apostolic
at that?

These questions earned me a backhanded slap when my father, with
Aharone, and later my Uncle Krikor, insisted that Apostolic
Christianity defined one's Armenian-ness and that a true Armenian was
Christian Apostolic.

After reading this column, a lot of people will wish that my father
was alive now to teach me a lesson. So do I, albeit for different
reasons.

[HermanGerman]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

before we can liberate west armenia, we have to educate the world about turkishness and what it stands for...

THIS IS TURKISHNESS !