Are there Persians in Iran?

[Sean]

Re: Are there Persians in Iran?

No. You are wrong. American people are not so dumb not to know what country is Persia.

sure they are, but thats not even the issue at hand, i wont debate you on how smart or dumb americans are, but i can tell you that iranians of whatever ethnicity introduce themselves as iranians or persians interchangably

[oslonor]

Re: Are there Persians in Iran?

sure they are, but thats not even the issue at hand, i wont debate you on how smart or dumb americans are, but i can tell you that iranians of whatever ethnicity introduce themselves as iranians or persians interchangably

The discussion on this thread is not about some Azeri Turks present themselves as Persians so Americans think they are not from Iran. (Americans are smarter than that). The discussion here is about that "Iranian" has no historical and ethnic significance. It is a modern creation. It tries to discuss the roots of Iranian nationalism. You should visit the link to understand that. It is entirely different from what you are discussing. Persians are an ethnic group different from other ethnic groups regardless what an Azeri Turk claim about he is Persian or not.

[Sean]

Re: Are there Persians in Iran?

The discussion on this thread is not about some Azeri Turks present themselves as Persians so Americans think they are not from Iran. (Americans are smarter than that). The discussion here is about that "Iranian" has no historical and ethnic significance. It is a modern creation. It tries to discuss the roots of Iranian nationalism. You should visit the link to understand that. It is entirely different from what you are discussing. Persians are an ethnic group different from other ethnic groups regardless what an Azeri Turk claim about he is Persian or not.

yes, the word Persian is used by Iranians only to descibe themselves to foreigners, within Iran theres no such thing as a "Persian" ethnicity, noone calls themselves "Farsi" or "Parsi" but rather Irani, which is the standard term for the main people there. Azeris and Kurds and others are the ethnic minorities, which even within them they cannot be deamed a minority because they are identical and fully assimilated with Iran as a whole. So I dont know whose giving you ur facts but the different ethnicities in Iran arent some sort of Iraq-like different sects, or that Azeris only live in their province and Baluchis only live in theirs or so and so forth like u make it out to be, but its rather a melting pot where everyone lives with eachother and you can go ur whole life in any street in Iran without being asked of ur ethnicity or background.

[oslonor]

Re: Are there Persians in Iran?

yes, the word Persian is used by Iranians only to descibe themselves to foreigners, within Iran theres no such thing as a "Persian" ethnicity, noone calls themselves "Farsi" or "Parsi" but rather Irani, which is the standard term for the main people there. Azeris and Kurds and others are the ethnic minorities, which even within them they cannot be deamed a minority because they are identical and fully assimilated with Iran as a whole. So I dont know whose giving you ur facts but the different ethnicities in Iran arent some sort of Iraq-like different sects, or that Azeris only live in their province and Baluchis only live in theirs or so and so forth like u make it out to be, but its rather a melting pot where everyone lives with eachother and you can go ur whole life in any street in Iran without being asked of ur ethnicity or background.

What you say is news to me and the people of Iran.
No. There are different ethnic groups in Iran and they are not mixed up as you imagine. They live even in different provinces. Iran is not USA. You are mostly refering to Tehran with 8-10 million population. But Tehran is &70 Azeri Turk. So even Tehran is not a good example. In Iran ethnicity is defined by province or city. They do not say Persian, but city specifies the ethnicity.
Here is Iran ethnic map:

[Sean]

Re: Are there Persians in Iran?

What you say is news to me and the people of Iran.
No. There are different ethnic groups in Iran and they are not mixed up as you imagine. They live even in different provinces. Iran is not USA. You are mostly refering to Tehran with 8-10 million population. But Tehran is &70 Azeri Turk. So even Tehran is not a good example. In Iran ethnicity is defined by province or city. They do not say Persian, but city specifies the ethnicity.
Here is Iran ethnic map:

buddy, i've been to every city and town from bushehr to ardebil and from abadan to mashhad, and ethnic groups almost dont exist. u have the so called "persians" which are basically the Iranians and the so called other minorities which are just as Iranian. during the war in fact it was the kurds taht were going out and dying in the highest numbers. and taht map, yes ive seen it before and ive discussed it before, its very distorted and false, mazandarani is not even an ethnicity, its just a province. and who said 70% of Tehran is azeri? perhaps it never dawned on me taht there were so many Azeris if this is true because they and everyone else is soo assimilated, so if the Azeris are taht much woven into the fabric of society, and practically nothing but a slight turkish accent can distinguish them, then why are they even a minority? they're the same people that happen to also speak another language, just as theres people taht speak Arabic in ahvaz and abadan. so no, those people arent ethnic minorities, when i go to Iran what i consider a minority is the large number of Russians i see in Tehran, or the large number of black Africans that the Portuguese broiught over decades ago in the South. other than that, not so much anyone else.

[oslonor]

Re: Are there Persians in Iran?

buddy, i've been to every city and town from bushehr to ardebil and from abadan to mashhad, and ethnic groups almost dont exist. u have the so called "persians" which are basically the Iranians and the so called other minorities which are just as Iranian. during the war in fact it was the kurds taht were going out and dying in the highest numbers. and taht map, yes ive seen it before and ive discussed it before, its very distorted and false, mazandarani is not even an ethnicity, its just a province. and who said 70% of Tehran is azeri? perhaps it never dawned on me taht there were so many Azeris if this is true because they and everyone else is soo assimilated, so if the Azeris are taht much woven into the fabric of society, and practically nothing but a slight turkish accent can distinguish them, then why are they even a minority? they're the same people that happen to also speak another language, just as theres people taht speak Arabic in ahvaz and abadan. so no, those people arent ethnic minorities, when i go to Iran what i consider a minority is the large number of Russians i see in Tehran, or the large number of black Africans that the Portuguese broiught over decades ago in the South. other than that, not so much anyone else.

This is what Mr. Ahamdinejad dreams and he is planning for Iran. But so far it is not the case. Tehran is the melting pot of Azeri Turks. All are Azeri Turks. Are you going to claim Russians are mixed with Azeri Turks just because some Russian workers work on some project are in Tehran.

Even you say that Kurds did this or that. Kurds are not Azeri Turks. Yes. Azeri Turks are trying to use the Iranian label and say there are not ethnic groups in Iran and everybody is mixed up with Azeri Turks but that is not the case. This is mostly political propoganda to hold to political power.

Some information on Azeri Turks:
# No Azeris Turks in Afghanistan: There are no Azeri Turks in Afghanistan. This shows that Azeri Turks are not native to this region. All other natives of Iran are some way related to ethnic groups in Afghanistan.

# Are Turks Mongols?: Azeris claim that Turks look like Mongols similar to Uzbeks. Azeris are "Caucasian" whatever that means. Therefore Azeris are not really turks. Actually some mongolian tribes have adopted the turkish language but in reality ethnically they are not turks. Mongols are Mongols and they are not Turks. The real turks are the Azeris. This is even clear in central asia. The Kazaks are the union of the Turk and Mongol tribes, who lived on the territory of the modern Kazakhstan approximately in the first century B.C., were the forebears of Kazakhs. This clearly shows that Mongols are not really turks.

# Pan-Turkism and Russians: Actually the whole fraud and falsifications about the nature of Azeri Turks were invented in the Soviet Union in 1930's under Stalin. The reason is Soviet Union feared Pan-Turkism and invented a separate identity for each ethnic group who spoke Turkish in Caucaus and central asia. Azeris became "Iranian" and central asians became sogdians and baktrians. This propoganda was adopted by some Azeris in Iran such as Kasravi and promoted in Iran. All of the propoganda were lies. Azeris are Turks. Today Azeri Turk ruling elite is using this propoganda to present itself with the label of "Iranian" tribe and continue the plunder of resources from the natives of Iran.

[Sean]

Re: Are there Persians in Iran?

with all due respect to u oslo, i really hope u dont say any of this stuff in front of an Iranian, they'll just laugh at u

This is what Mr. Ahamdinejad dreams and he is planning for Iran. But so far it is not the case. Tehran is the melting pot of Azeri Turks. All are Azeri Turks. Are you going to claim Russians are mixed with Azeri Turks just because some Russian workers work on some project are in Tehran.

my brother was a civil enginerring professor at "elmo sanat" university in tehran where Ahmadinejad was too, ive encountered and talked with him numerous times.i never got a trace of anything Azeri from him or any of the things u speak of. The reason I mention Russians is cuz the last couple of years theres been a migration of Russians to Tehran and because u can easily single them out and they are distinguishable, soon as u see the really pale skin and the natural blonde hair, its different from Azaris who are Iranian and look Iranian.

Even you say that Kurds did this or that. Kurds are not Azeri Turks. Yes. Azeri Turks are trying to use the Iranian label and say there are not ethnic groups in Iran and everybody is mixed up with Azeri Turks but that is not the case. This is mostly political propoganda to hold to political power.

to hold political power?? come on man, im sorry but this just makes me laugh. maybe its cuz of the prejudices taht ive grown up with, but everyone in Iran has some sort of stereotype except the "persians" and the Azari one is, well letsjust say that they're not the brightest. if u ever come across an Iranian and ask em to tell u some Iranian jokes, at least 6 out of 10 times it will be about how dumb Azaris are, they are the centerpiece of many jokes, and they all begin with "Turke khare" mean taht dumb donkey Turk. they make these jokes about themselves too so its not really offensive, but its just utterly hilarious the thought of them being behind a huge conspiracy to take over Iran.

Some information on Azeri Turks:
# No Azeris Turks in Afghanistan: There are no Azeri Turks in Afghanistan. This shows that Azeri Turks are not native to this region. All other natives of Iran are some way related to ethnic groups in Afghanistan.

those Azeris in Iran are Iranians, of the same background as other Iranians, only because that part of the country was conquered and they were forced to speak another language they are now called Turks, not because they are genetically different. Egyptians werent genetically Arab, but since they were forced to speak Arabic people call them Arabs, but it doesnt mean they have any genetic links to the people of Saudi Arabia.

# Are Turks Mongols?: Azeris claim that Turks look like Mongols similar to Uzbeks. Azeris are "Caucasian" whatever that means. Therefore Azeris are not really turks. Actually some mongolian tribes have adopted the turkish language but in reality ethnically they are not turks. Mongols are Mongols and they are not Turks. The real turks are the Azeris. This is even clear in central asia. The Kazaks are the union of the Turk and Mongol tribes, who lived on the territory of the modern Kazakhstan approximately in the first century B.C., were the forebears of Kazakhs. This clearly shows that Mongols are not really turks.

# Pan-Turkism and Russians: Actually the whole fraud and falsifications about the nature of Azeri Turks were invented in the Soviet Union in 1930's under Stalin. The reason is Soviet Union feared Pan-Turkism and invented a separate identity for each ethnic group who spoke Turkish in Caucaus and central asia. Azeris became "Iranian" and central asians became sogdians and baktrians. This propoganda was adopted by some Azeris in Iran such as Kasravi and promoted in Iran. All of the propoganda were lies. Azeris are Turks. Today Azeri Turk ruling elite is using this propoganda to present itself with the label of "Iranian" tribe and continue the plunder of resources from the natives of Iran.

i dont kno what ur motive is behind all of this but Azeris are Iranian people that had a change of language, this is common knowledge in Iran and accepted by all Azeris. They are Iranian peoples, of indo-european or aryan origins and not some tribal turkic people or whatever ur making them out to be.

[oslonor]

Re: Are there Persians in Iran?

with all due respect to u oslo, i really hope u dont say any of this stuff in front of an Iranian, they'll just laugh at u


my brother was a civil enginerring professor at "elmo sanat" university in tehran where Ahmadinejad was too, ive encountered and talked with him numerous times.i never got a trace of anything Azeri from him or any of the things u speak of. The reason I mention Russians is cuz the last couple of years theres been a migration of Russians to Tehran and because u can easily single them out and they are distinguishable, soon as u see the really pale skin and the natural blonde hair, its different from Azaris who are Iranian and look Iranian.


to hold political power?? come on man, im sorry but this just makes me laugh. maybe its cuz of the prejudices taht ive grown up with, but everyone in Iran has some sort of stereotype except the "persians" and the Azari one is, well letsjust say that they're not the brightest. if u ever come across an Iranian and ask em to tell u some Iranian jokes, at least 6 out of 10 times it will be about how dumb Azaris are, they are the centerpiece of many jokes, and they all begin with "Turke khare" mean taht dumb donkey Turk. they make these jokes about themselves too so its not really offensive, but its just utterly hilarious the thought of them being behind a huge conspiracy to take over Iran.

those Azeris in Iran are Iranians, of the same background as other Iranians, only because that part of the country was conquered and they were forced to speak another language they are now called Turks, not because they are genetically different. Egyptians werent genetically Arab, but since they were forced to speak Arabic people call them Arabs, but it doesnt mean they have any genetic links to the people of Saudi Arabia.

i dont kno what ur motive is behind all of this but Azeris are Iranian people that had a change of language, this is common knowledge in Iran and accepted by all Azeris. They are Iranian peoples, of indo-european or aryan origins and not some tribal turkic people or whatever ur making them out to be.

I should remind you of history of Iran.

1. The Azeri Turk Saffavids regime in 16 century, executed more than 70.000 persians only in Isfahan. They also killed millions of Zoarastrian and imposed the Shia religion on Iran.
2. The current Azeri Turk regime in Tehran has executed 200.000 people. It is still stoning people. Everybody in Iran agrees that this regime has no "Iranian" or "Persian" culture. Culturally they are related to primitive Turk tribes in Caucasus where they originate.

You should wake up from your daydream!!!!!

Also a question: You questioned the ethnic map. Can you explain more why you question the ethnic map of Iran?

[Sean]

Re: Are there Persians in Iran?

ur saying the Islamic republic regime is Azeri? who are these 200,000 people that have been executed, give me a source to back uo what u say. the only part i can agree with u here is when u say "everybody in Iran agrees that this regime has no Iranian or Persian culture". I absolutely agree with that. But only in that this much hated bastard regime is so Muslim and pro-Arab and people hate that. So if its anything its promoting Arab culture, if in fact they were Azeri's in charge, they'de make heros out of people like Babak instead of trying to silence him and making people make heros of some bedouin Arab prophets like Ali and Hossein and whatever else.

So forgive me, but what am i missing, where is this Azeri connection. please enlighten me

[oslonor]

Re: Are there Persians in Iran?

You say that :

"i dont kno what ur motive is behind all of this but Azeris are Iranian people that had a change of language, this is common knowledge in Iran and accepted by all Azeris. They are Iranian peoples, of indo-european or aryan origins and not some tribal turkic people or whatever ur making them out to be"

This thread is exactly about this:
1. Iranian is a modern concept and creation.
2. Iranian is a meaningless term as it is used by Azeri Turks.
3. Azeri Turks should be described as Azeri turks. The term Iranian confuses the issues.
4. Read the link provided to understand the background:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/487760/thread/1155792804/last-1156493561/Are+there+Persians+in+Iran-