The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

[Muhaha]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/01/wikileaks-amazon-servers-_n_790652.html

6:34 PM ET Alexander Litvinenko's Murder And Putin

The Guardian is focusing on Putin's possible knowledge of plans to kill former KGB agent and Russian dissident Alexander Litvinenko. The paper reports:

Daniel Fried, the assistant secretary of state, questioned whether "rogue elements" in Russia's security services could have carried out the hit without Putin's direct approval.

A scenario where the Kremlin was unaware of the Litvinenko plot was far-fetched "given Putin's attention to detail", Fried said. The Russians were behaving with "increasing self-confidence to the point of arrogance", he told the French, arguing for a tougher stance towards Moscow.

Litvinenko was killed in November of 2006 from an overdose of polonium-210 in England. His death and the subsequent British attempts at extraditing the man they suspected was responsible resulted in strained U.K.-Russian relations.
5:20 PM ET WikiLeaks: Russia 'Highly Centralized, Occasionally Brutal'

In the latest round of cables, WikiLeaks looks at Russia and Vladimir Putin, Russia's high profile president and former prime minister. Although there have been overtures towards warmer relations between Russia and the U.S., the cables show that the U.S. has a cynical view of the former Soviet Union and its leaders. According to the New York Times:

The cables portray Mr. Putin as enjoying supremacy over all other Russian public figures, yet undermined by the very nature of the post-Soviet country he helped build.

Even a man with his formidable will and intellect is shown beholden to intractable larger forces, including an inefficient economy and an unmanageable bureaucracy that often ignores his edicts.

In language candid and bald, the cables reveal an assessment of Mr. Putin’s Russia as highly centralized, occasionally brutal and all but irretrievably cynical and corrupt. The Kremlin, by this description, lies at the center of a constellation of official and quasi-official rackets.

Relations between the two nations have been under some strain recently. This week, Russian Prime Minister Medvedev warned of a possible upcoming arms race if Russia and the West cannot come to an agreement on a missile defense shield. Today, Putin bluntly stated that U.S. failure to ratify a new nuclear agreement known as the START treaty would be "dumb."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/01/wikileaks-amazon-servers-_n_790652.html

[Federate]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Stalin, best Russian? That's like Germans saying Hitler was best German. I thought the only people who admired Stalin were the old "babushkas"

Why is it so surprising? Had Germany won the war, Hitler would've probably made "Best German" too. Stalin turned Russia from an agrarian society to an industrialised superpower in a few short years and led the decisive belligerent in the "Great Patriotic War" against the Third Reich. Those two key achievements alone overshadow the Great Purges for the majority of Russians.

I have sympathy for all innocent civilians, during Chechen wars many innocent civilians were murdered ruthlessly by Russian forces. I may not support Chechen politics that much, but I sympathize with the innocent Chechens that were killed in the wars....and Russia could have done better job with preventing those deaths.

Sure but unfortunately, those are the expected consequences of waging a guerrilla war where one side has no uniform and hides among the civilian population.

[Merv]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Interesting timing... this has been a hot topic in Canada recently

Ukrainian famine is a genocide largely unrecognized

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Uk...509/story.html

Why is Russia still so bitter about the recognition of the Ukraine famine? I though they had accepted it and moved on...

Not sure. Could be the reparations issue. About 5 million were killed. They've admitted the Katyn Massacres, Stalin purges, etc. Why can't they admit this?

Because this wasn't an ethnic genocide. It was deaths as a result of a man-made famine which affected Ukraine, Russia, and Kazakhstan. This map of death rates shows that the most nationalistic part of Ukraine - the west - was barely affected, whereas the Russian-speaking areas were decimated. Notice that the Russian Donbas was decimated as well.

In short, this is the equivalent of ethnic Manchus accusing China of genocide because many died during the Great Leap Forward. Maybe they did. But many Han died as a result of the same policy, which wasn't ethnically-discriminatory.







Ukraine was the hardest hit for sure, but that's because Ukraine was the USSR's breadbasket. The men most responsible weren't even ethnic Russians - Stalin, a Georgian and Kaganovich, a Ukrainian xxx. So why should Russia apologize for an atrocity perpetrated against her own agricultural class and those of other nations in the USSR by a communist clique that wasn't elected and wasn't even ethnically Russian?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazar_Kaganovich

[Mos]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Because Stalin is still revered in Russia, contrary to what the media would like everyone to believe. He was voted among the best Russians ever a few years back.


I don't have much sympathy for the Chechens. They have committed even bloodier war crimes and fought against us in Artsakh, they can go screw themselves.

Stalin, best Russian? That's like Germans saying Hitler was best German. I thought the only people who admired Stalin were the old "babushkas"

I have sympathy for all innocent civilians, during Chechen wars many innocent civilians were murdered ruthlessly by Russian forces. I may not support Chechen politics that much, but I sympathize with the innocent Chechens that were killed in the wars....and Russia could have done better job with preventing those deaths.

[Federate]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I find that kind of stupid to be honest. it's not like Russian Federation committed this crime, it was the Bolsheviks especially Stalin who did this. Why does Russia think what Stalin did is directly related with the current state of Russia? Thus they shouldn't have a problem with condemning the things that Stalin did.

Because Stalin is still revered in Russia, contrary to what the media would like everyone to believe. He was voted among the best Russians ever a few years back.

However, the Russian actions in Chechnya should be looked into, as some of the things that they did may very well warrant war crimes, especially for Putin...

I don't have much sympathy for the Chechens. They have committed even bloodier war crimes and fought against us in Artsakh, they can go screw themselves.

[Mos]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I find that kind of stupid to be honest. it's not like Russian Federation committed this crime, it was the Bolsheviks especially Stalin who did this. Why does Russia think what Stalin did is directly related with the current state of Russia? Thus they shouldn't have a problem with condemning the things that Stalin did.

However, the Russian actions in Chechnya should be looked into, as some of the things that they did may very well warrant war crimes, especially for Putin...

[Federate]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Not sure. Could be the reparations issue. About 5 million were killed. They've admitted the Katyn Massacres, Stalin purges, etc. Why can't they admit this?

Because this, as opposed to other events, is being classified as 'genocide'. No country wants their history to be associated with the G-word, regardless of who was in power at the time.

[Joseph]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Not sure. Could be the reparations issue. About 5 million were killed. They've admitted the Katyn Massacres, Stalin purges, etc. Why can't they admit this?

[Mos]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Why is Russia still so bitter about the recognition of the Ukraine famine? I though they had accepted it and moved on...

[Federate]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Prince Andrew: "Aliyev had received a letter from President Medvedev telling him that if Azerbaijan supported the designation of the Bolshevik artificial famine in Ukraine as “genocide” at the United Nations, “then you can forget about seeing Nagorno-Karabakh ever again.” http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable...SHKEK1095.html

http://news.am/eng/news/39844.html

Russians are acting like Turks on this one.

Here is th original cable on Wikileaks that I posted earlier.