Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Jos]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Two provisions in the protocols appear to be causing the most distress amongst Armenians generally, namely:

a) The first Protocol commiting Armenia and Turkey to recognize ‘the existing border' between the two countries as defined by the relevant treaties of international law.

b) Armenia and Turkey ‘agree to implement a dialogue on the historical dimension and set up a intergovernmental bilateral commission' to discuss the genocide etc.

Hypothetical question: if you had the power to change or delete one (strictly one only) of the above, which one you select modify and why?

[Mukuch]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Two provisions in the protocols appear to be causing the most distress amongst Armenians generally, namely:

a) The first Protocol commiting Armenia and Turkey to recognize ‘the existing border' between the two countries as defined by the relevant treaties of international law.

b) Armenia and Turkey ‘agree to implement a dialogue on the historical dimension and set up a intergovernmental bilateral commission' to discuss the genocide etc.

Hypothetical question: if you had the power to change or delete one (strictly one only) of the above, which one you select modify and why?

Bothe are equally harmful and dangerous, hypothetical questions are not in place hear.

And there is one point more about Armenia recognizing territorial integrity of other countries (means of Azerbajan as well).

[Army]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Both sides must be careful. If the protocol fails by Yerevan, Turkey would be known as the side who did try to solve the crisis and Armenia could have a serious problem on explaining UN "why would not she recognise the borders with her neighbor". That happened in Cyprus too.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

This may have been from this forum but very true.
Its all a game its a matter as to who plays it better.


THE SEVEN RULES OF NATIONALISM

1. If an area was ours for 500 years and yours for 50 years, it should
belong to us - you are merely occupiers.

2. If an area was yours for 500 years and ours for 50 years, it should
belong to us - borders must not be changed.

3. If an area belonged to us 500 years ago but never since then, it
should belong to us - it is the Cradle of our Nation.

4. If a majority of our people live there, it must belong to us - they
must enjoy the right of self-determination.

5. If a minority of our people live there, it must belong to us - they
must be protected against your oppression.

6. All the above rules apply to us but not to you.

7. Our dream of greatness is Historical Necessity, yours is Fascism.


Formulated by David C.Pugh

Norwegian Refugee Council

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

This may have been from this forum but very true.
Its all a game its a matter as to who plays it better.


THE SEVEN RULES OF NATIONALISM

1. If an area was ours for 500 years and yours for 50 years, it should
belong to us - you are merely occupiers.

2. If an area was yours for 500 years and ours for 50 years, it should
belong to us - borders must not be changed.

3. If an area belonged to us 500 years ago but never since then, it
should belong to us - it is the Cradle of our Nation.

4. If a majority of our people live there, it must belong to us - they
must enjoy the right of self-determination.

5. If a minority of our people live there, it must belong to us - they
must be protected against your oppression.

6. All the above rules apply to us but not to you.

7. Our dream of greatness is Historical Necessity, yours is Fascism.


Formulated by David C.Pugh

Norwegian Refugee Council

This is true but only the strong can make any of these rules stick. Power trumps everything else-words like legitimacy, morality, human rights, self determinination... are all secondary to raw power. As a matter of fact, power defines and implimements these terms.The turcks can brake all human and any other kind of right by commiting a genocide yet they go free of punishment because they are too powerfull to punish while Armenia did the right thing morally and in every other aspect in defending kharabagh and the people that lived there but it finds itself under international critisism and pressure to relinquish its gains because it lacks power. This is the reason i keep saying our priority needs to be to strengthen our Armenia so it can become more powerfull vs pissing away millions upon millions of dollars on things that just don't work. Documents and treaties are meaningless if you don't have power.

[Aslanov]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

How will it affect Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict?

[londontsi]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

If Armenian side think that they are in a class room and behave like little kids, do what they are told, to get praises from their teachers not very well at all.

On the other hand if they behave like adults, articulate their principles and red line they will not cross then at best there will be a deadlock to give us a breathing space to compose to fight another day.

If they cannot use the steering wheel at least they should use the breaks.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Opposition Parties Vow Joint Actions Against Turkish-Armenian Deal

Two of Armenia’s leading opposition parties will join forces to campaign against the implementation of the Turkish-Armenian agreements, one of their top representatives said on Monday.
“You will soon witness joint steps by the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnaktsutyun) and Zharangutyun,” Stepan Safarian, a leading member of the Zharangutyun party, told a news conference. “We have reached a tentative agreement to that effect as a result of consultations, and I think that with joint efforts we will achieve more than we would if we act alone.”

Safarian gave few details of the planned joint actions, saying only that they will be taken both “inside and outside the parliament.”

The two parties, which control between them 23 seats in the 131-member National Assembly, favor a hard line on Turkey and have been highly critical of the fence-mending protocols revealed by Ankara and Yerevan on August 31. Dashnaktsutyun wants the Armenian government to make a number of significant changes in the documents, while Zharangutyun has demanded that the entire deal be put on a national referendum.

Zharangutyun, whose top leader Raffi Hovannisian had served as foreign minister in 1992, reaffirmed those demands in a letter to Sarkisian sent on Monday. Safarian warned that failure to accept them could lead his party to fight for the president’s resignation. “I can’t rule that out especially considering the fact that as an opposition force, we have always wanted to see leadership change in Armenia as soon as possible,” he said.

Despite its vocal opposition to the Turkish-Armenian deal, Dashnaktsutyun is also not seeking Sarkisian’s resignation for the moment. The nationalist party has so far only demanded Foreign Minister Eduard Nalbandian’s dismissal, a stance criticized by the more radical and influential Armenian National Congress (HAK) of Levon Ter-Petrosian.

Unlike Dashnaktsutyun and Zharangutyun, the HAK has been more cautious in assessing the Turkish-Armenian agreements. Ter-Petrosian himself pursued a conciliatory policy towards Turkey when he served as Armenia’s first president from 1991-1998. The HAK considers leadership change in the country its top priority and believes that the Armenian opposition forces should rally around that goal.

http://www.azatutyun.am/content/article/1838482.html

[Federate]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

With the HAK being de facto for 'the Protocols', I don't see how the Hunchaks and Miatsum (Sefilian) can still remain in that coalition. It defies logic at this point and they should immediately pull out of it if they want to maintain any more credibility in what they believe in.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Evans called the Protocols “flawed”


Former U.S. Ambassador to Armenia John Evans called Armenia-Turkey Protocols “flawed” during the webcast with Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA) on Thursday, Asbarez daily reports.

“I think that the impulse to try to get diplomatic relations started and to get the border opened was a good impulse. In the execution there may have been, and there certainly were some shoddy work,” Evans said, adding that he was not representing any government or organization but speaking on his behalf.

In the course of the webcast many points and aspects of the Protocols were discussed.

Evans was dismissed from the position of the U.S. Ambassador to Armenia “for speaking honestly and calling the events of 1915 Genocide.”

http://news.am/en/news/5311.html