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Armenian-Turkish Relations

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  • #1181
    Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

    Originally posted by Catharsis View Post
    Diasporans have participated with everything they have, including billions and billions of investments and cadres. The major reason behind not full-scale participation is the environment in Armenia which is not friendly to ANY outside participation, including that of our own kit and kin. I (sadly) agree when US and others for their own interests point out the high corruption levels that are prevalent throughout Armenia. Not to mention concepts like individual rights and freedoms, are all but curtailed. Any Armenian, one living in Armenia and repatriating Diasporan should feel that Armenia at least gives them a chance to survive on their own, they will not complain and they will strive towards this end, but even this meager chance of free enterprise and other freedoms is highly curtailed and not afforded to many.

    I'm sorry but that is bullxxxx. Armenia is more 'free' (whatever that term means at the time) than any of its neighbors. Only reason u.s. likes to mention those things is because it think it is the world's moral voice and of course because Armenia is not it's bi*ch like georgia nor does it have oil like azerbaijan.

    There are a number of Diaspora Armenians who invest/donate millions in Armenia and do not have major issues, three key ones being Kirk, Cafesjian and Eurnekian. The Armenian Diaspora of Russia and Iran are very well represented in the business community of Armenia, no reason why Armenians from the u.s./canada can't do the same.
    For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
    to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



    http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

    Comment

    • #1182
      Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

      Dissidence in Armenian society –Turkey’s biggest dream


      /PanARMENIAN.Net/ There are deep processes taking place in both Armenia and Diaspora. Each Armenian is very sensitive about the issue lying behind discussions, RA Deputy FM Shavarsh Kocharyan told Armenian journalists. “There are two ways in which people think. First, world faces rapid changes, with serious developments taking place in our region. In such circumstances, everybody seeks to achieve the maximum. And if, in such situation, we do not resolve national issues, others will do that instead of us,” Deputy FM said. The second way of thinking, according to Kocharyan, is that Ankara has not changed its position on Armenian Issue, continuing to impede Armenian Genocide recognition and acquiring tools in Karabakh issue. “Both types of thinking are substantiated, but it would be wrong to be guided by one of them. Current policy considers both approaches,” Kocharyan noted.Internal discussions are very important, but they should not cross all limits, Deputy FM believes. “Dissidence in our society is Turkey’s biggest dream, and we should realize that,” he said.

      Those who protest against RA-Turkish Protocols demand that Turkey recognize Armenian Genocide and open border before starting dialogue with Armenia. “Such approach implies pursuance of isolation policy, with all the threats deriving thereof. In view of regional shifts, such policy will push us out of game, and everything will be done at our expense. In such situation, we are resolving very concrete issues,” Shavarsh Kocharyan said.


      Dissidence in Armenian society -Turkey's biggest dream
      http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=37615
      For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
      to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



      http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

      Comment

      • #1183
        Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

        Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post
        You need to think outside the box where 1+2 does not add up to 3...........Who ever told you that you can't get what you don't have? Bulldust.

        You think you have it all figured out. The world and our cause cannot be solved with a single formula. If this goes through then I hope you enjoy your temporary economic prosperity of a mirage hanging like a carrot off of a stick.


        Catharsis: Thanks for posting.
        Hey Eddo thats the kind of math that got the diaspora to its ultrapowerful position today. You sit there telling a math teacher that 1+2 does not add up to three, well it always has it still does and it always will! That formula never changes and never will. I never said you cant get what you dont have, i said you cant lose what you dont have, you drunk or something?
        Hayastan or Bust.

        Comment

        • #1184
          Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

          Originally posted by Armanen View Post
          Dissidence in Armenian society –Turkey’s biggest dream


          /PanARMENIAN.Net/ There are deep processes taking place in both Armenia and Diaspora. Each Armenian is very sensitive about the issue lying behind discussions, RA Deputy FM Shavarsh Kocharyan told Armenian journalists. “There are two ways in which people think. First, world faces rapid changes, with serious developments taking place in our region. In such circumstances, everybody seeks to achieve the maximum. And if, in such situation, we do not resolve national issues, others will do that instead of us,” Deputy FM said. The second way of thinking, according to Kocharyan, is that Ankara has not changed its position on Armenian Issue, continuing to impede Armenian Genocide recognition and acquiring tools in Karabakh issue. “Both types of thinking are substantiated, but it would be wrong to be guided by one of them. Current policy considers both approaches,” Kocharyan noted.Internal discussions are very important, but they should not cross all limits, Deputy FM believes. “Dissidence in our society is Turkey’s biggest dream, and we should realize that,” he said.

          Those who protest against RA-Turkish Protocols demand that Turkey recognize Armenian Genocide and open border before starting dialogue with Armenia. “Such approach implies pursuance of isolation policy, with all the threats deriving thereof. In view of regional shifts, such policy will push us out of game, and everything will be done at our expense. In such situation, we are resolving very concrete issues,” Shavarsh Kocharyan said.


          http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=37615
          Who the f... is Shavas, ohh yeah yeah he's the deputy foreign minister one of the architects of the agreement with the Turk,giving us this bull shiat.

          We in a sense will accept as Armenian people the non-existence of Armenian Genocide or will be out of the game?
          Well excuse me but furck that game and the architects of it.
          "All truth passes through three stages:
          First, it is ridiculed;
          Second, it is violently opposed; and
          Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

          Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

          Comment

          • #1185
            Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

            Originally posted by Armanen View Post
            You didn't answer my question Anoush jan. The demographic factor scares me the most, but I do not have a lot of reasons to think the turks or kurds will decide to move to Armenia, they are getting along just fine where they are and even with open borders, there will still be hostility between the two peoples.

            As far as the Diaspora, it should invest more in Armenia regardless and the government of RA should emphasize to the Russians that a strong Armenia will not leave the partnership it has with them. I think this may be one of the reasons why the Diaspora is not encouraged by the RA government has much as it should be because of Russian pressure. It is up to the RA government in conjunction with the 2+ million Armenians in Russia to gain more influence within the Kremlin.
            You are arguing with me Armanen and you aren't reading what is said above? Are you kidding me? Aliyev wants Sunik. The protocols are deadly for our sovereignty and you and Haykakan are arguing with me and some others? I cannot beleive this. Step outside of the box and think through what's happening. The protocols are being signed because Mr. Serje is lacking in legitimacy to rule the country in a manner that is good and prosperous for his countrymen. He is a selfish bastard and only thinking about himself. By signing these deadly protocols he is signing off the Genocide recognition, our remuneration possibilities to our right of at least some parts of Western Armenia, not to let Armenia to have a say in Artsakh matters or help Artsakh to be recognised by OSCE Minsk group and now Gul and Aliyev want to steal more lands from us; our Syunik, our only small land that is attached to our only good neighbours, Iran.

            Now go and argue with the Russians, Gul and Aliyev. Good luck.
            Last edited by Anoush; 10-09-2009, 06:08 PM.

            Comment

            • #1186
              Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

              Originally posted by Armanen View Post
              You didn't answer my question Anoush jan. The demographic factor scares me the most, but I do not have a lot of reasons to think the turks or kurds will decide to move to Armenia, they are getting along just fine where they are and even with open borders, there will still be hostility between the two peoples.

              As far as the Diaspora, it should invest more in Armenia regardless and the government of RA should emphasize to the Russians that a strong Armenia will not leave the partnership it has with them. I think this may be one of the reasons why the Diaspora is not encouraged by the RA government has much as it should be because of Russian pressure. It is up to the RA government in conjunction with the 2+ million Armenians in Russia to gain more influence within the Kremlin.
              You are arguing with me Armanen and you aren't reading what is said above? Are you kidding me? Aliyev wants Sunik. The protocols are deadly for our sovereignty and you and Haykakan are arguing with me and some others? I cannot beleive this. Step outside of the box and think through what's happening. The protocols are being signed because Mr. Serje is lacking in legitimacy to rule the country in a manner that is good and prosperous for his countrymen. He is a selfish bastard and only thinking about himself. By signing these deadly protocols his is signing off the Genocide recognition, our remuneration possibilities for our rights to have at least some parts of Western Armenia, not to let Armenia to have a say in Artsakh matters or help Artsakh to be recognised by OSCE Minsk group and now Gul and Aliyev want to steal more lands from us; our Syunik, our only little land that is attached to our one and only good neighbours, Iran.

              Now go and argue with the Russians, Gul and Aliyev. Good luck.
              Last edited by Anoush; 10-09-2009, 06:10 PM.

              Comment

              • #1187
                Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

                Originally posted by Davo88 View Post
                I think we should be reminded of this simple fact : it was your friendly neighborhood Turkey that went on the offensive by illegally closing the Turkish-Armenian border back in 1993, not Armenia. Why the should we accept such conditions today?! We should not concede our rights and put a question mark on the Armenian genocide, it is Turkey that has to be punished for creating such hardships.
                Davo jan, I wish it was only the mere fact of the Genocide recognition and reparations of our rights of Western Armenian lands. It is much more than that. Read the Protocols again. In the turkish preconditions our dearest smartest very caring very legitimate president Serje will be signing tomorrow that Armenia will have no say in the Artsakh matter or to help Artsakh in the future. And just recently, Gul and Aliyev had a summit in our Nakhichevan that Stalin gave it away to the tatar "azeris" they recently had a summit to take steal away our Syunik, the only little land of ours that is attached to our one and only good neighbours, the Iranians. The turks and the "azeris" are taking over Armenia. Period. And a couple of guys are arguing with us that it will be good for Armenia to open the borders with those hawks "gentani" bashe BO zook animals. Namely turkey and "azerbaijan".
                Last edited by Anoush; 10-09-2009, 06:19 PM.

                Comment

                • #1188
                  Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

                  Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
                  Hey Eddo thats the kind of math that got the diaspora to its ultrapowerful position today. You sit there telling a math teacher that 1+2 does not add up to three, well it always has it still does and it always will! That formula never changes and never will. I never said you cant get what you dont have, i said you cant lose what you dont have, you drunk or something?
                  No you are the drunk one!!! You are drinking vodka with borsch. Go and read the protocols again and see how Armenia will soon sign off Syunik, will sign off having any involvement with Artsakh matter, and all this for these bloody bull xxxx protocols that are going to be signed by Armenia's very caring, very patriotic, very legitimate president Serje.

                  Comment

                  • #1189
                    Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

                    Originally posted by Gavur View Post
                    Who the f... is Shavas, ohh yeah yeah he's the deputy foreign minister one of the architects of the agreement with the Turk,giving us this bull shiat.

                    We in a sense will accept as Armenian people the non-existence of Armenian Genocide or will be out of the game?
                    Well excuse me but furck that game and the architects of it.
                    He is much like some others who stands to make money in this Turkish Deal by supporting these protocols and who don’t give a rat’s ass about its ramifications and the future consequences.

                    They say you got nothing to loose. Ha………something about the good General and a nearest tree comes to mind.
                    B0zkurt Hunter

                    Comment

                    • #1190
                      Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

                      Originally posted by Armanen View Post
                      And why were they able to do this and it was accepted? Because of power; might makes right.
                      Actually they were permitted to do so by the said powers because of geopolitical interests of their own - just like now, with these protocols that have been charted by the Turkish side and their allies (US, Britain and Switzerland amongst others). Both the British and the French at the sealing of the Treaty of Lausanne still occupied large segments of Turkey. The Turkish army - although not the ragtag of 1920 - was no match for neither side.

                      Comment

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