When we get East Anatolia back...

[ArmenianKid]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

its been 2 years and i still have a hard time waking up when i need to

[melikianAvak]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

ուզումեմ ձեր ուշադրութիւնը գրավել հետեւյալ հեռուստատեսային ծրագրին: http://www.ars1910.org/arsjavakhkclip.htm

Եթէ Թիֆլիսի քաղաքականությունը ներկայիս հոսանքով շարունակվի Վրաստանի գոյությունը, իբր պետութիւն, կարջ է լինելու: Ես անձամբ գիդեմ որ որոշ ազգային մարմիններ լուրջ գործողութիւններ են կատարվում Ջավախքում:

Armenian jan

I enjoyed the film clip, but I really had trouble keeping up with the very fast audio. I don't think I have ever had a conversation or listened to anyone who spoke Armenian that fast.


Avak

[ArmSurvival]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

there will be useless Turks waiting for our mercy.What should our decision upon them be?

Useless? Since when are a bunch of people who can be potentially used for manual labor “useless”?

1)Killing every one of them for our losses(This would be a little barbaric/turkish but it is our right for sure)

Our right? How so? This is not even border-line fascist…its full-blown. Plus, killing people for no reason (for the point I mentioned above, including others) is a bad idea to say the least.

2)Having them get back to Asia,to isolated places.(So that Europans and us will not need to worry about them.But I doubt they will be any community wanting these sub-humes nearby)

Sending them back to Asia? Where do you think Anatolia is? And again, generalizing a group of people as “sub-humes” is fascist and not practical from any point of view, and only works to obstruct one’s vision.

3)Let them live under Great Armenia as second class citizens(This is the most civilized way.But it is questionable whether they are civilized enough to deserve this)

After hearing what you plan to do to scores of innocent women and children, I don’t think you’re in a position to tell someone whether they are civilized or not.

4)Giving them to Kurds so that Kurds will kill them(Not bad.We will get rid of these sub-humes with our hands not dirty)

So what do you propose we do with the Kurds who form the majority of the population? I know… we can hire Russians to kill them so we won’t get our hands dirty…. this whole topic is completely laughable as none of these options (even if we accept the basic premise of the argument) are logical.

Anyways…I don’t know what you’re trying to do for the Armenian cause when your goals of killing “sub-humes” line up more towards those of the Neo-Nazi movement (I think your signature highlights this perfectly).

Before we start talking of Western Armenia we might want to do something to make the conditions in the current republic livable and maybe one day preferable to many other nations. Bedk e zarkatsnenk mer oonetsadz yergiru. Western Armenia can be taken back when the region falls into another chaotic period. Now is not the time to delve into such fantasies.

[Էլիա]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

Useless? Since when are a bunch of people who can be potentially used for manual labor “useless”?



Our right? How so? This is not even border-line fascist…its full-blown. Plus, killing people for no reason (for the point I mentioned above, including others) is a bad idea to say the least.



Sending them back to Asia? Where do you think Anatolia is? And again, generalizing a group of people as “sub-humes” is fascist and not practical from any point of view, and only works to obstruct one’s vision.



After hearing what you plan to do to scores of innocent women and children, I don’t think you’re in a position to tell someone whether they are civilized or not.



So what do you propose we do with the Kurds who form the majority of the population? I know… we can hire Russians to kill them so we won’t get our hands dirty…. this whole topic is completely laughable as none of these options (even if we accept the basic premise of the argument) are logical.

Anyways…I don’t know what you’re trying to do for the Armenian cause when your goals of killing “sub-humes” line up more towards those of the Neo-Nazi movement (I think your signature highlights this perfectly).

Before we start talking of Western Armenia we might want to do something to make the conditions in the current republic livable and maybe one day preferable to many other nations. Bedk e zarkatsnenk mer oonetsadz yergiru. Western Armenia can be taken back when the region falls into another chaotic period. Now is not the time to delve into such fantasies.

ArmSurvival, just to let you know, I don't agree with Orlandu for the actions after regaining Western Armenia (just wanted to say it). And when he said move back to Asia, he meant back to Central Asia (where the Turks originated from). Actually, this is the only thing I agree on. I think that the Turks should move back to Central Asia because that's where they belong, before they came and destroyed Western Asia/Europe. Turkey doesn't belong in Anatolia, it's not even the homeland... there's no way it's going to become part of the EU so hell with it. Anyway, for everything else (like the killings and giving to Kurds) is very inhumane, and doesn't follow the great proverb, "An eye for an eye makes everyone blind", or something like that.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

ArmSurvival, just to let you know, I don't agree with Orlandu for the actions after regaining Western Armenia (just wanted to say it)

Well I'm glad you're not a Nazi.

And when he said move back to Asia, he meant back to Central Asia (where the Turks originated from).

Yea I know, I was just being sarcastic.

Actually, this is the only thing I agree on. I think that the Turks should move back to Central Asia because that's where they belong, before they came and destroyed Western Asia/Europe. Turkey doesn't belong in Anatolia, it's not even the homeland

What we have to realize is that the Turks in Anatolia aren't Central Asian anymore. They have settled and mixed in with the native populations of Anatolia for over a millenium and have more in common with the nations which surround it more than anything. Culturally and genetically, Anatolian Turks have more in common with Armenians and Greeks than with Kazakhs, Uzbeks, and the rest. This might be some kind of taboo among Armenians, but it needs to be said, and the sooner we accept this the better our national vision will be. The main things which separate Armenians and Turks are history and politics.

Also, you can say any empire "destroyed" all the cultures it came into contact with, and that it spread its influence by conquest. However, this is misleading, because it doesn't take into consideration that the conquerers adopt many aspects of the local cultures. For example, the Mongol Il-Khanate (the successor state of the Mongol empire based in Iran), eventually converted to Islam, and Farsi became their main language. The Mongolian Mughal dynasty which ruled India became Indian. Ottoman palace music was a synthesis of Byzantine and Armenian music, same thing with their food and architecture, while they added their own touches to things. Same process with the Roman Empire, Hellenistic Empires, and many empires throughout history. So in essence, cultures are hardly "destroyed" by conquerers (except in extreme cases such as genocide or cultural oppression, or mass assimilation), but they evolve over time. Culture is an evolution.

Its misleading to think that the Turkish-Armenian issue is some kind of cultural clash (I'm not saying you think this way, but many Armenians do). Its a political/humanitarian one, which is why we need to concentrate on beating Ankara in politics while giving humanitarian aid to Armenia. Only zealots like Bill O'Reilly and Al-Qaida believe in culture clashes.

[Էլիա]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

Well I'm glad you're not a Nazi.



Yea I know, I was just being sarcastic.



What we have to realize is that the Turks in Anatolia aren't Central Asian anymore. They have settled and mixed in with the native populations of Anatolia for over a millenium and have more in common with the nations which surround it more than anything. Culturally and genetically, Anatolian Turks have more in common with Armenians and Greeks than with Kazakhs, Uzbeks, and the rest. This might be some kind of taboo among Armenians, but it needs to be said, and the sooner we accept this the better our national vision will be. The main things which separate Armenians and Turks are history and politics.

Also, you can say any empire "destroyed" all the cultures it came into contact with, and that it spread its influence by conquest. However, this is misleading, because it doesn't take into consideration that the conquerers adopt many aspects of the local cultures. For example, the Mongol Il-Khanate (the successor state of the Mongol empire based in Iran), eventually converted to Islam, and Farsi became their main language. The Mongolian Mughal dynasty which ruled India became Indian. Ottoman palace music was a synthesis of Byzantine and Armenian music, same thing with their food and architecture, while they added their own touches to things. Same process with the Roman Empire, Hellenistic Empires, and many empires throughout history. So in essence, cultures are hardly "destroyed" by conquerers (except in extreme cases such as genocide or cultural oppression, or mass assimilation), but they evolve over time. Culture is an evolution.

Its misleading to think that the Turkish-Armenian issue is some kind of cultural clash (I'm not saying you think this way, but many Armenians do). Its a political/humanitarian one, which is why we need to concentrate on beating Ankara in politics while giving humanitarian aid to Armenia. Only zealots like Bill O'Reilly and Al-Qaida believe in culture clashes.

I guess, but it's a little annoying how a lot of Turkish songs are based on Armenian songs. But, what is a cultureal clash anyway?

[ArmSurvival]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

I guess, but it's a little annoying how a lot of Turkish songs are based on Armenian songs

I can see where you're coming from, it annoys me too. However, it only angers me when it is done purposely to hide our contributions (which is the work of Turkish extremists). A lot of Turks simply don't know their cultural history in an objective way, or simply haven't studied it in-depth, so they think things are simply Turkish. Armenians are also ignorant of many outside influences to our culture, like how our government system (even in the present day) is heavily influenced by Iranian models of government. Provinces in Armenia are called "Marz", which is an Iranian term and an Iranian system of governance dating back at least to the Sassanid dynasty.

But, what is a cultureal clash anyway?

Its a term some people use to describe why they are opposed to certain ways of life. Like how some people think what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan is a "clash of culture" or "clash of civilizations" between Christianity and Islam, when in reality it is just a political matter. I look at it as a psuedo-historical term whose meaning is abused by a lot of people.

[Էլիա]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

I can see where you're coming from, it annoys me too. However, it only angers me when it is done purposely to hide our contributions (which is the work of Turkish extremists). A lot of Turks simply don't know their cultural history in an objective way, or simply haven't studied it in-depth, so they think things are simply Turkish. Armenians are also ignorant of many outside influences to our culture, like how our government system (even in the present day) is heavily influenced by Iranian models of government. Provinces in Armenia are called "Marz", which is an Iranian term and an Iranian system of governance dating back at least to the Sassanid dynasty.



Its a term some people use to describe why they are opposed to certain ways of life. Like how some people think what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan is a "clash of culture" or "clash of civilizations" between Christianity and Islam, when in reality it is just a political matter. I look at it as a psuedo-historical term whose meaning is abused by a lot of people.

So, you're saying that the argument between the Turks and Armenians isn't because of the Turkish culture and Armenian culture (or it shouldn't be)?

[ArmSurvival]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

So, you're saying that the argument between the Turks and Armenians isn't because of the Turkish culture and Armenian culture (or it shouldn't be)?

It shouldn't be because its not. The basis for our hostility is not the different sounds we make when we speak or the different food we eat or the music we listen to (especially when our music and food is very similar).

[Էլիա]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

It shouldn't be because its not. The basis for our hostility is not the different sounds we make when we speak or the different food we eat or the music we listen to (especially when our music and food is very similar).

Oh, but the Genocide has caused everyone to think that it is a cultural clash.