Armenian Georgian Relations

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Georgia Arrests Armenians (as Russian Spies)

You may have heard in the news about Georgia breaking up a Russian spy ring http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-11700965

It turns out that 2 of the arrested are Armenians with Russian nationalities:

Georgian Nationals:

1. Bakur Kiguradze, founder of NGO "Globalization Institute", businessman.
- Charged with espionage according to article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on military cooperation between Georgia and other countries.



2. Viacheslav Pluzhnikov, pilot of Georgian Air Forces.
- Charged with espionage according to article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on the flight time-tables and pilots of Georgian Air Forces.



3. Gabriel Ustalishvili, pilot of Georgian Air Forces.
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on military readiness and mobilization resources of Georgian Armed Forces.



4. David Meskhidze, pilot of Georgian Air Forces.
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on military trainings and inspections in Georgian Armed Forces.



5. Gela Kakabadze, pilot of Georgian Air Forces.
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on the numbers of military personnel, weapons, military hardware and transport in Georgian Armed Forces.



6. Gocha Diasamidze, pilot of Georgian Air Forces.
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on the level of combat and operative readiness of Georgian Armed Forces.



7. Tariel Abashidze, pilot of Georgian Air Forces.
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on the working regime, structure and personnel of important military and civil facilities.



8. Ruslan Galogre, businessman.
- Charged with working on special service of a foreign country according to Article no. 311 of Georgian Criminal Code
- According to instructions from the GRU, conducted surveillance on certain individuals.



9. Eduard Abdulaev, sailor, radio specialist.
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on military communications and radio call signs.



Russian citizens:

10. Armen Gevorkian, director of company "Saybolt Georgia."
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on the cooperation between the armed forces of Georgia and other countries.



11. Ruben Shikoyan, deputy director of company "Saybolt Georgia."
- Charged with espionage according to Article no. 314 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Reported secret information to the GRU on the contracts signed between Georgian Ministry of Defense and foreign companies regarding military purchases.



12. Petre Devrishadze, businessman.
- Charged with working on special service of a foreign country according to Article no. 311 of Georgian Criminal Code
- According to instructions from the GRU, conducted surveillance on certain individuals.



13. Iuri Skrilnikov, GRU liaison officer.
- Charged with working on special service of a foreign country according to Article no. 311 of Georgian Criminal Code
- Organized meetings with GRU contacts on Georgian territory and transferred secret information abroad.


From what I am hearing through various connections, it is all a "nice story" masterminded by no other than Saakashvili. The arrested Armenians were successfull businessmen who also supported Armenian youth organizations in Georgia. So, with this grand coup, the Saakashvili regime achieved the following:

1- Stole the Armenian's business (Saybolt Georgia) and gave it to his friends
2- Created anti-Russian propaganda
3- Eliminated some Georgians from the opposition (it is interesting to note that 6 of them were Georgian airforce pilots)
4- Slapped the Armenians (particularly the Armenian community living in Georgia)

[arakeretzig]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

I don't see a happy end to this West-puppit Saakashvili. Georgia is a such a joke country, it's tragic. Without the West, they'd be bankrupt, not to mention, the bad infrastructure and roads, and ethnic divisions. That country is hanging by a thread, and can collapse any moment, just like lebanon.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Wikileaks: Armenia tries to balance relations with Georgia

By Times.am at 29 November, 2010, 10:02 pm

Here is the summary of the documents, published by Wikileaks, where it is spoken about Armenian-Georgian relations. The summary especially says:

Top Armenian officials are growing increasingly offended by Georgians’ non-responsiveness to Armenian efforts to reach out. The most discourteous, perhaps, was the Georgian FM’s refusal even to meet FM Nalbandian for a few minutes in Yerevan Airport, as she passed through en route overland to Georgia in the early morning of August 15.

President Sargsyan is starting to take domestic criticism for his presumed “failure” to call Saakashvili, after he did call President Medvedev. Armenians feel their good intentions have been met with an undeserved cold shoulder. Both the president and foreign minister remain new enough in their jobs for such perceived slights to sting more than perhaps would be the case of more seasoned hands.

Armenian officials are growing increasingly agitated, in private meetings with CDA, about the continuing refusal of their Georgian counterparts to take their calls, whether at the presidential, prime minister, or foreign minister level. A key presidential aide confided to CDA that President Sargsian had wanted to call Presidents Saakashvili and Medvedev on the same day, so as to avoid any appearance of Armenian bias between the two sides, but that when Medvedev took the call and Saakashvili did not, the appearance of pro-Russian preference was created. After repeated attempts to get a call through, Sargsyan finally just sent a letter to Saakashvili , in a substitute effort to show support for the Georgian side.

Local opposition newspapers have already sharply criticized President Sargsyan for calling Medvedev and not phoning Saakashvili , and have accused him of sacrificing Armenia’s national interests in a misguided effort to cozy up to Russia. This is galling to Sargsyan after his efforts to get Saakashvili on the telephone to offer condolences and assistance.

The Prime Minister, likewise, was frustrated (reftel) by his inability to reach his Georgian counterpart to discuss trade and transportation issues which are of critical importance to the Armenian economy. Meanwhile, Armenian officials have kept their public statements about Georgia determinedly positive, even as their private exasperation mounts, though they have begun to suggest that they will take a sharper public tone if the cold shoulder from Tbilisi continues much longer.

The Foreign Minister called in CDA August 15 for a one on one meeting, in which he vented his own simmering frustration, over what he termed Georgia’s “hostile attitude.” Visibly agitated, FM Nalbandyan noted that Armenia is trying to help Georgia by taking in more than 4,000 refugees and offering to serve as a humanitarian corridor for international relief efforts. He stressed that Armenia needs a good relationship with Georgia not only for economic reasons, but also for its contribution to regional stability. Nalbandyan added that the GOAM had meticulously avoided any statements that could be construed as siding with the Russians. Despite these efforts, Nalbandyan fumed, Saakashvili has refused to return repeated calls from President Sargsyan, and the Georgian PM has ignored calls from his Armenian counterpart “for more than a week.

” The final indignity, according to the FM, was when FM Tkeshelashvili arrived at Yerevan Airport at 4:00am on August 15 en route overland to Tbilisi and declined Nalbandyan’s proposal for a short Airport meeting at that hour. Tkeshelashvili said she was “under instructions” to return to Tbilisi immediately. “What more do they want from us?” Nalbandyan asked rhetorically. He said that the GOAM is “avoiding any negative public statements about Georgia,” and warned that were such a statement to be issued, the reaction of ethnic Armenians in Javakhq (Javakheti) would be “very dangerous” for Georgia. Despite the obvious threat behind his words, Nalbandyan insisted that “this is not a card we could play” with Georgia, but “just a reality.”

CDA spoke briefly with the Georgian Ambassador August 15, after signing the embassy condolence book. When CDA gave a brief synopsis of the meeting with Nalbandyan, the Georgian ambassador said he had been working the phones with Tbilisi for several days to try to set up a Saakashvili -Sargsyan call, but to no avail. Although he expressed frustration at Tbilisi ’s lack of responsiveness, he attributed the failure to the exigencies of the current emergency rather than to any desire to slight the Armenians. The Ambassador added that he would inform Saakashvili ’s office in his next communication that the American Charge had been called in by Nalbandyan about this issue.

And Times.am-Armenian news also presents the whole story on the theme, which is published on finchannel.com. The article is mostly about the Russian-Georgian war, but we have underlined the part conserning Armenia at first.

The full story can be seen here:

http://finchannel.com/Main_News/World/76354_Secret_Documents_by_Wikileaks_Confirming_that_War_in_Georgia_Was_Provocated_by_Russia/

http://times.am/2010/11/29/wikileaks-armenia-tries-to-balance-relations-with-georgia/

[arakeretzig]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

http://www.historyoftruth.com/news/latest/8264-georgia-to-support-azerbaijan-in-case-of-war-around-karabakh%E2%80%8C

“Georgia to Support Azerbaijan In Case Of War Around Karabakh”
Saturday, 04 December 2010 16:13
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Interview with Mais Safarli, chairman of the Yurddash party, former deputy of Azerbaijani Parliament (Milli Majlis).

Q: Is it possible to consider Georgia’s position in Karabakh issue quite satisfactory?

A: Georgia has always supported the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and spoken for the peaceful resolution of the Karabakh conflict within the framework of norms of international law. Georgia supported this policy both under former president Eduard Shevarnadze and adheres to it under current president Mikhail Saakashvili. Thus, Georgia’s position meets Azerbaijan’s interests.

Q: Is it possible to believe that in case of resumption of military actions around Nagorno Karabakh, Armenia will demand from Georgia to cut transit of energy sources from Azerbaijan and Azerbaijan will in turn demand blocking the supplies of goods to Armenia via Black Sea ports? And in this case, the demand of which side, Baku or Yerevan, will be more weighty for Georgia?

A: I believe that economically Georgia is more bound to Azerbaijan. Today the transit of Azerbaijani oil and gas is one of the sources of Georgia’s revenues. Tbilisi understands that in case they get to be outside Azerbaijan’s interests, their economic state will worsen. Therefore, the pressure of Baku on Tbilisi, may become more weighty. Armenia has no levers of pressure on Tbilisi. The only lever in the hands of Armenia is their diaspora which will create a stir in the world, but this is not the lever to use it against Tbilisi. Today not only Georgian elite but also every Georgian is aware that their future, economic development are directly bound to Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan does not depend on Georgia in the transit of its hydrocarbons, since it has enough alternative routes to supply its oil and gas to the world markets. In this sense, I would like to repeat that Azerbaijan has a chance to put effective pressure on Georgia.

Q: How effective can be the use of Azerbaijanis in Georgia by Baku to put pressure on Tbilisi?

A: This factor is also quite a strong means in Baku’s hands. The situation with separatism remains quite strained. In the result of this separatism, a definite part of Georgian lands have been occupied. Therefore, if the central powers of Georgia have the same problems with Azerbaijanis, the future of the Georgian state may be queried. Tbilisi is aware of this reality, since Azerbaijanis in Georgia have always protected and defended the state interests of their country.

Q: Can the tensions between Azerbaijanis and Armenians in Georgia rise in case of war between Azerbaijan and Armenia?

A: I believe such a conflict between Azerbaijanis and Armenians in Georgia is highly unlikely. I do not think that Armenians in Georgia can create such a conflict. But as is known the number of Azerbaijanis in Georgia is higher than of Armenians. In addition, Azerbaijanis’ position in Georgia is economically and politically higher.
Reply

Lala B.
News.Az

The friend of your enemy is your enemy too.
Georgians will always be scum.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

First of all history of truth is a piece of sh*t, second of all it's an Azeri politician. They think the whole world supports them. In case of war Georgia would do anything in my opinion they have enough troubles...

[gegev]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

I like little Ossetian boys. Abkhaz men are good for sexy time
i didn' wrote these words and you only can dream about javakheti nothing more

are stuped? i told you that i didn't wrote these xxxxing words

Where is Sahakashvili did you ban him Fed? I like his posing as a hero. Please bring him back. He is an amusing guy.

Bring back, bring back ...

Sahakashvili stinks again. Stinking politics in Caucasus; kissing the Azeri/Turkish ass, barking at Armenia on Javahk issue, occupying Armenian churches. And making hypocratic statements on Armenian-Georgian friendship. He, I assume, doesn't learn the lesson given by Dro Kanayan.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Sahakashvili stinks again. Stinking politics in Caucasus; kissing the Azeri/Turkish ass, barking at Armenia on Javahk issue, occupying Armenian churches. And making hypocratic statements on Armenian-Georgian friendship. He, I assume, doesn't learn the lesson given by Dro Kanayan.

Georgia is our next enemy after Azeris. Look at the short history of the first Armenian republic. We have the same challenges that they had back then, it seems nothing has changed in the Caucasus in the last 100 years. But what has changed is how we handle those challenges. In the next ten years, especially after 2012 where the Azeris will have passed their maximum oil production, the Artsakh case will be settle for once and all. With that I mean de-jure independence. After that it's time for Georgia to pay for the xxxx that has been going on in the next 20 years. It's my generations turn to make that happen, the last generation won the Artsakh war and it's our turn to make Georgia pay and take back what belongs to us. You know what belongs to us?

Everything we can take and nothing less. Armenian imperialism in the 21st century.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

You know what belongs to us?

Everything we can take and nothing less. Armenian imperialism in the 21st century.

Taking back what was yours to begin with isn't Imperialism. It's justice.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Taking back what was yours to begin with isn't Imperialism. It's justice.

What you are talking about will put limitation on us, that is something we don't need. We will take what ever we want and what ever our power can give us.
Like for example we want a coast line we will take it and not care if it belonged to us or not. That is Armenian imperialism.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

What you are talking about will put limitation on us, that is something we don't need. We will take what ever we want and what ever our power can give us.
Like for example we want a coast line we will take it and not care if it belonged to us or not. That is Armenian imperialism.

Looks like a coastline to me...