Armenian Georgian Relations

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Georgia is on the verge of partition by “historical borders”

In fact what we have now is a totally new Georgia. If we trace the country’s development since 1991 it becomes clear that Tbilisi has been experiencing nothing but losses.

As a rule, misinformation is spread with the particular aim of exploring circumstances, shaping a certain public opinion, and if everything goes according to the plan, information proves to be true. Another advantage of misinformation is anonymity, which under certain conditions may turn into an alibi: we never said it and we know nothing… There was an information leak the other day. If we trust Turkish and Azerbaijani informative sources, Baku and Ankara are going to stiffen pressure on Georgia in order to achieve federalization of the country.
/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Thus, Turkey is determined to split up Georgia, leaving her with only historical regions (Kartli, Shida Kartli (Gori) and Kakheti), which in 1783 were placed under the Russian patronage according to the Treaty of Georgievsk. The rest, i.e. independent Ajaria, Azerbaijani Kvemo-Kartli (Borchali) and the Turk-Meskhets will be distributed «by rights». It is obvious that under such distribution Javakhk may pass to Armenia, if the sides come to an agreement.

As Turk diplomats claim such federation would be the only guarantee for preservation of Georgia’s territorial integrity. But the question is which Georgia we mean – present Georgia, the Soviet Socialist Republic of Georgia or the Georgia of 1918. There is an impression that the term “territorial integrity” has turned into a song which is sung throughout the world in or out of place.

Nevertheless, talks on Georgia’s partition are already in circulation and it is not difficult to foresee Georgia’s future, especially in case President Saakashvili decides on another reckless military attempt, like the August operation, which, by the way, is quite probable on the eve of the US Presidential Elections… But who will serve as an object for «recovering the constitutional order» this time? It can hardly be Javakhk, as in this case Turkey’s intervention would be inevitable, whereas in all probability Saakashvili would be reluctant to strain relations with Turkey. The latter is a member of NATO and can simply block Georgia’s getting a Membership Action Plan (MAP). Thus, the Georgian President dug his own hole, where he can hardly manage to rise from. The spasmodic attempts to call the West and especially the United States for help are like a voice crying in the wilderness. The world is busy with the financial crisis and Georgia’s problems do not worry it much. However, Tbilisi is reluctant to understand it.

In fact what we have now is a totally new Georgia. If we trace the country’s development since 1991, i.e. after the USSR breakdown, it becomes clear that Tbilisi has been experiencing nothing but losses. Zviad Gamsakhurdia, the First President of the Republic of Georgia, led the country into the chaos of the Civil War, losing Abkhazia. During the reign of Eduard Shevardnadze Ajaria was actually an independent region, which only Mikhail Saakashvili was able to return to Georgia. Now Georgia has lost South Ossetia and, finally, Abkhazia.

Separatist tendencies that exist in the republics of the former USSR once more underline the illogical and inaccurate division of borders, fixed before the World War II. By the way the republics, whose borders are more or less accurate, do not face conflicts, Armenia being among them. On the other hand it is rather inappropriate to speak of the «accuracy» of borders, as the current world map gives too broad interpretations on the precision of this or that border…

Concerning Georgia there is also another consideration that prevails over all others. It is the transportation of energy resources. Unfortunately Mikhail Saakashvili used to believe that without him oil would never get to Europe. However, with the beginning of the military operations in South Ossetia, Turkey and Azerbaijan ceased to trust Tbilisi, considering that unruly Mikhail Saakashvili might put at stake the normal functioning of oil-pipeline Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan and gas-line Baku-Tbilisi-Erzerum. After all, the above-mentioned pipelines both pass through Ajaria, Kvemo-Kartli and Samtskhe-Javakheti. Thus, the major war in the Caucasus is still ahead. And if we also take into account the fact that together with Turkey Russia is rapidly increasing its presence in the Caucasus, Administration of the future US President is going to face great difficulties.

Meanwhile, RF Foreign Ministry declares that Georgia is trying to launch another war in the Caucasus. The reason for this declaration has been a number of terrorist acts in the territory of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, as well as in the buffer zone of these republics. RF Foreign Ministry Department of Information and Press states: “There is an impression that certain powers in Tbilisi are consciously straining the situation in the region and are trying to provoke new military operations through a series of terrorist acts”.

Karine Ter-Sahakyan

http://www.panarmenian.net/details/eng/?nid=936

[crusader1492]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

In Talks with EU Caucasus Envoy, Tchoboian Echoes Calls for a Federated Georgia

BRUSSELS--The Chairperson of the European Armenian Federation (EAF), Hilda Tchoboian met on September 24 with the EU's special envoy to the South Caucasus, Peter Semneby, for talks on the European Union's policy on the South Caucasus.

Tchoboian relayed to Semneby the concerns of Georgia's disadvantaged Armenian minority, primarily concentrated in the southern region of Samtskhe-Javakheti and echoed calls for a Federated Georgian state made by Georgia's embattled minorities in August, after Tbilisi's ill-conceived invasion of South Ossetia sparked a conflict with Russia.

“Trying to build a centralized, unitary state in the 21st century is simply unrealistic for a diverse, multi-ethnic country such as Georgia” she said.

Ethnic Armenians, mainly located in Tbilisi and in the southern region of Javakhk. represent the main minority in Georgia, comprising roughly 10% of the whole population. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, they have endured forced assimilation and discriminatory policies (linguistic, administrative, and religious) as have the other minorities in the country. Most notably, Armenians Churches are regularly “converted” into Georgian churches.

Despite the official and unofficial discrimination, ethnic Armenian in Georgia have not advanced any irredentist claims, Tchoboian said, adding, however, that Armenian's of Georgia do demand that their collective, democratic, and regional rights be fully respected within the framework of a decentralized, pluralist, and tolerant Georgian state.

“After their [Georgia's] defeat in South Ossetia, we need to be mindful that nationalistic elements of Georgian society and the Georgian power structures could target the ethnic Armenians community as scapegoats” explained Tchoboian.

During the Georgian-Russian, Armenian non-governmental organizations working in Georgia's Armenian-populated Samtskhe-Javakheti and Kvemo Kartili regions issued a joint announcement conflict calling for the formation of a federative Georgian republic, with great autonomies granted to its ethnic populated districts, including the Armenians of Javakhk.

A Federated structure, according to the statement would “guarantee the country's stability and democratic development, re-establish Georgia's territorial integrity and statehood, as well as resolve ethnic conflicts in an objective, just and legal manner.

“Georgia has compelling interest in moving toward a policy of respect for the rights of minorities--especially those of the ethnic Armenians of Javakhk--as per its commitments to the Council of Europe,” Tchoboian told Semneby. “The EU has a vital role to play in implementing confidence building programs in Georgia.”

Also on the agenda of the meeting was a discussion on the recent overtures by Turkey to become a more active player in the South Caucasus.

Tchoboian stressed the imparative to foster regional cooperation in the Caucasus, but noted the many obsticles that stand in the way of stability and cooperation in the the region.

Turkey poses the greatest obsticle to regional cooperation, she said, citing its historic and modern role as a destabilizing force in the Caucasus. In that regard, she expressed the European Armenian community's skepticism toward Turkey's initiative to establish a “Caucasus Stability and Cooperation Platform,” citing Turkey's longstanding support of Azerbaijan in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict and its heavy-handed blockade of Armenia as reasons why Turkey's cannot act as a neutral party in the region.

“In the context of the emergence of a new balance of power in the Caucasus, Turkey is seeking to create for itself a role as an intermediary between Europe, Russia and the Caucasian States” Tchoboian said. “But its hopes are clearly not supported by the facts on the ground, which include recent statements by its Foreign Minister stressing Turkey's intention to make Armenia pay dearly for the opening of the border, in particular, by stopping the international process of Armenian Genocide recognition.”

Speaking about recent moves ostensibly aimed at a normalization of relations between Armenia and Turkey, Tchoboian noted that many observers consider the apparent goodwill toward Armenia recently displayed by Turkey to be driven primarily by the domestic power struggle between Kemalists and Islamists and their competing efforts to assert primacy in guiding their nation's foreign affairs, instead of a sincere interest in materially improving relations with Armenia.

At the end of the meeting, Semneby and Tchoboian both reiterated their common interest in seeing regional cooperation return to the South Caucasus.



Thursday, October 9, 2008

[crusader1492]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

"Front page" news on Russia Today.

http://www.russiatoday.com/features/news/32006/video

Armenian minority fear isolation and poverty in Georgia

Tens of thousands of Armenians living in Georgia's Javakh province say their economic problems are being ignored by the country’s government. They warn that bringing about change could be difficult, as many have stopped speaking out, fearing recrimination.
100,000 Armenians are living in the southern Georgian province, where jobs are scarce and poverty rates are high.

“Most Armenians living there do not speak Georgian. They are Georgian citizens, they live on the Georgian territory. This is the first obstacle to integration in Georgia,” explains Suren Manukyan from the Museum of the Armenian Genocide in the Armenian capital Yerevan.

But during Soviet times and in the years that followed, the problem of language did not exist. Many people worked at the Russian military base on the outskirts of town.

The money they earned there fed their families. But when the Russians left a few years ago, their salaries went with them and the region became one of the poorest in Georgia.

The economic problems of the Armenians in Georgia are not exactly the highest priority of the government right now. The authorities continue to pump money into showcase projects, such as a presidential palace in Tbilisi.

Because of the fear of prosecution, many Armenians in Javakh are afraid to speak their minds. Those brave enough to raise their voices in the past have felt the strong arm of the law.

Dr Sergey Minasyan from the Yerevan-based Caucasus Institute explains why.

“There were some young people who decided to fight against the situation. They didn’t have enough political experience and money, but as young people they had enough spirit and guts to resist,” he says.

“Because they were so young and inexperienced, their activities finished how they finished: most of them have been arrested. This is why the political structure of this movement has been completely destroyed”.

Jailing people is only adding to local feelings of resentment and concerns for the future.

Dr Minasyan is not optimistic about the future of these people. He believes there is no strong interest in the political powers of Georgia to deal with this problem. “So their situation will probably remain the same for a long time,” he said.

But for the Armenians in Javakh time is running out. They say they are fed up with being ignored and just want the president to listen to what they've got to say.

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

"Front page" news on Russia Today.
http://www.russiatoday.com/features/news/32006/video

It's interesting that Russia Today would present this report about Javakhq. From an Armenian perspective, the liberation of Javakhq would bring us one step closer to the Black Sea, which should be our nation's number one longterm strategic goal at this point. What, if anything, are our politicians doing to sow the seeds of this agenda? I would suspect the answer is nothing. Note: Official Yerevan could have cordial/warm relations with Tbilisi while attempting to realize the aforementioned goal.

[RSNATION]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

The story below is very encouraging. It would be beneficial for Georgia and Armenia to construct a new highway to the Black Sea. I'm also happy to see the Azerbaboons coming unglued

AZERI PUNDIT BLAMES GEORGIAN LEADER FOR RED CARPET TREATMENT TO ARMENIAN HEAD
by R. Manafli Ekho

Ekho
Oct 3 2008
Azerbaijan

Georgia cannot decide

Said Azerbaijani pundit in a comment on the visit of Armenian President
Serzh Sargsyan to Tbilisi from the Azerbaijani standpoint

"Russian jets took off from the Armenian territories to bomb Georgia
and Mikheil Saakashvili pretends he does not know this and renders
homage to Serzh Sargsyan upon receiving him," Mubariz Ahmadoglu,
prominent local pundit and director of the Centre for Political
Innovations and Technologies, made this statement in a conversation
with Ekho newspaper, while summing up the results of Armenian President
Serzh Sargsyan's visit to Georgia from an Azerbaijani standpoint.

We should say that Armenian President Serzh Sargsyan paid a two-day
working visit to Tbilisi on 30 September - 1 October. Within the
framework of the visit, the Armenian president had a tete-a-tete
conversation with his Georgian counterpart Mikheil Saakashvili
where they discussed bilateral relations as well as issues related
to the regional security. At a joint briefing after the meeting,
the presidents said that they took a decision to set up a joint
consortium of the two countries for the construction of a new road
to the Black Sea coast through Ajaria.

[Passage omitted: Georgia and Armenia decide to build a new road up
to the Black Sea coast of Georgia]

Azerbaijan is surprised at the "high-level Georgian-Armenian
relations", which was highlighted at the meeting of the two presidents,
in particular, after Armenia supported Russia's military aggression
against Georgia. Anyway, as political expert Mubariz Ahmadoglu told
Ekho, Russian jets took off from the Armenian territories to bomb
Georgia and Mikheil Saakashvili pretends that he does not know this
and renders homage to Serzh Sargsyan upon receiving him.

Against this background, Saakashvili's gratitude to Sargsyan that
Armenia backed Georgia's territorial integrity seems ridiculous,
the director of the CPIT said. "How can one speak about the support
for Georgia's territorial integrity by Armenia when immediately after
recognition of the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, they
began to speak about recognizing of unrecognized separatist bodies
in exchange for the recognition of Nagornyy Karabakh's independence
by Russia?" asked Mubariz Ahmadoglu.

In his opinion, the reason for tension in our region is namely
connected with the fact that countries turn a blind eye to such
behaviour of neighbouring states. "Georgia so far cannot decide on
what position to take for the resolution of major regional problems,"
the pundit said, adding that Saakashvili did not only award Sargsyan
a state order, but at the same time, he saw him off to Yerevan,
although when French President Nicholas Sarkozy arrived [in Tbilisi],
he did not even think of doing so.

Commenting on the decision of the Georgian and Armenian presidents
on the construction of the road, the Azerbaijani pundit said that
Georgia helps Armenia to put an ancient Armenian dream of "from sea
to a sea" into action. "You know, by building this road, Armenia will
get a direct access to the Black Sea coast," said Ahmadoglu. To recap,
the head of the CPIT said that Georgia's current policy with regard
to Armenia shows that Mikheil Saakashvili has bad advisers.

However, people adhere to this opinion not only in Azerbaijan but
also in Georgia itself. As a member of the board of the Azerbaijani
community in Georgia, [former MP] Zumrud Qurbanov, told Ekho, many
ethnic Azerbaijanis in Georgia are surprised at the level of reception
of the Armenian president in Tbilisi. "We are indignant at this. Do
politicians not know that South Ossetia and Abkhazia have in fact
become independent states owing to Armenia?" asked Qurbanov.

At the same time, he pointed out that Georgians also do not always
understand this, who quite often consider Armenians reliable and loyal
neighbours. "Although our attitude towards Armenians is different
due to known reasons, the Georgians see no reason for this," recapped
our compatriot.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Georgia cedes its natural gas network to Azerbaijan

by Emil Sanamyan

The Iran-Armenia gas pipeline at Saralanj. Photolure

Washington, - Georgia agreed to hand over the ownership of its natural gas network, which includes the transit gas pipeline from Russia to Armenia, to the Azerbaijani government, news agencies reported.

Under the November 14 deal, announced by Georgian leader Mikheil Saakashvili the next day, Azerbaijan would satisfy the bulk of Georgia's natural gas needs in 2009-13 at below-market prices.

The deal was finalized during an energy summit in Baku that brought together a number of central and eastern European heads and senior officials of states interested in Caspian energy.

Also at the summit, Kazakhstan agreed to expand its oil shipments via Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Turkey through the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline built with U.S. support.
"Property for debt"

Georgia's deal with Azerbaijan is similar to Armenia's deal with Russia, exchanging formal ownership of the gas network - that could potentially serve as political leverage - for a temporary reprieve in prices.

Until this year, like Armenia, Georgia bought most of its natural gas from Russia. Moscow reportedly came close to buying the Georgian gas network, but the offer was declined by Tbilisi on the U.S. government's insistence, which was concerned with integrity of non-Russian gas supplies.

Although the Georgian-Russian border is closed and official relations are suspended, Russia continues to supply Georgia, and by extension Armenia, with natural gas. The biggest gas consumers in Georgia - the Tbilisi electricity network and a chemical plant - are owned by Russian companies.

While Russian-Georgian talks on South Ossetia and Abkhazia resume in Geneva this week, no normalization in relations is anticipated any time soon.

Speaking at the Council on Foreign Relations in Washington on November 15, President Dmitry Medvedev said that Russia was "ready to build relations with Georgia."

"But not with the current [Saakashvili] regime," Mr. Medvedev said. "That is a red line, which we cannot cross."
Armenia impact

Azerbaijan has now promised to cover more than 60 percent of Georgia's overall gas needs - estimated at 1.8 billion cubic meters of gas a year - at below-market prices. The rest of the supplies to Georgia would still need to come at market prices from Azerbaijan, Russia, or Iran.

Armenia imported more than 2 billion cubic meters of gas from Russia last year. In addition to the now Azerbaijani-owned Georgian transit pipeline, Armenia can now potentially import natural gas from Iran - an important safeguard should new problems arise in supplies via Georgia. The Iran option also becomes more attractive as Russia will begin to raise prices for its supplies starting next year.

Consequences for Armenia of the Georgia deal may become apparent soon. Azerbaijan and Turkey had previously used a promise of lower gas prices to Georgia as leverage against Armenia in the form of Georgian support for the Kars-Akhalkalaki rail bypass and other projects.

The Russian-Georgian war already disrupted air and other traffic between Russia and Armenia. Media reports suggested that Georgia was trying to prevent Russian military cargo, including those resupplying its military base in Gyumri, from reaching Armenia.

Considering the continued importance of Georgia transit to Armenia, it is not surprising that both President Serge Sargsian and Defense Minister Seyran Ohanian have visited Georgia since the August war, and Prime Minister Tigran Sarkisian is expected to go soon.

http://www.reporter.am/go/article/2008-11-21-georgia-cedes-its-natural-gas-network-to-azerbaijan

[truAnatolian]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Georgian policy against Armenian churches grows more aggressive
21.11.2008 17:18 GMT+04:00
/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The latest incident in St. Norashen Church in Tbilisi is the continuation of Georgian policy of demolition of Armenian churches, an Armenian expert said.

“If preventive measures are not taken, we will lose out cultural heritage in Georgia soon,” Haykaz Alvrtsyan told a news conference today. “Unfortunately, neither the Armenian government nor Holy Echmiadzin developed a precise position on the issue,” he said.

“We just react to what is happening but we have to understand that the Armenian community can’t solve the problem without assistance of the Armenian authorities. We must assume a tough position, not fearing of consequences,” Alvrtsyan said.

On November 16, Georgian monk Tariel Sikinchelashvili instructed workers to raze to the ground the graves of Mikhail and Lidia Tamamshev.

This barbarian act outraged Armenians, who demanded to let the graves in their place. However, Father Tariel gave a harsh response.

Upon arrival of representatives of the Armenian Apostolic Church and parliament member Van Bayburt, the Georgian monk said he just wanted to replace the gravestones to “clean under them.”

[Lernakan]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Armenian students protest against Georgian vandalism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPoWbVlE8vI

[SoyElTurco]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Are there any Russian "peacekeepers" in Javakhetia?

And because of the war over the summer, what if Georgia decided to close its border with Armenia? How would the Russians have reacted to that? Closing borders is an act of war.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Are there any Russian "peacekeepers" in Javakhetia?

And because of the war over the summer, what if Georgia decided to close its border with Armenia? How would the Russians have reacted to that? Closing borders is an act of war.

No peacekeepers in Javakhk. There used to be a Russian base there that employed many Javakhkian-Armenians but that's gone now making their situation even more dire.

It wouldn't close because it has no reason to do so. Armenia maintains friendly relations with Georgia and is an ally with Russia at the same time. Yerevan has masterfully kept good relations with Iran, Russia, Georgia and USA simultaneously.