Armenian Georgian Relations

[Federate]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Georgian Ambassador to RA promises to rebuild ruined Armenian Church in Tbilisi
24.11.2009 17:18 GMT+04:00

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The Georgian Ambassador to Armenia Georgy Targamadze promised that the Armenian churches in Tbilisi will be restored and that they will have legal status. After that, the Armenian churches in Georgia will be passed under jurisdiction of the Armenian Apostolic Church, Narek Mantashyan, chairman of the Student Council at the Yerevan State Economic University said after a meeting with George Targamadze.

According to him, Georgia's Ambassador Georgy Targamadze informed that churches are destructed due to earthquakes, often occurring in Tbilisi within last months.

Surb Gevorg (Saint Gevorg) Armenian church, built in the Georgian capital in 1356 collapsed last Friday. Armenian Apostolic Church accused Georgian authorities of indifference to preservation of Armenian shrines, resulted in the destruction of the church.

http://panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=39835

[Catharsis]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

[SIZE="4"]Georgian Ambassador to RA promises to rebuild ruined Armenian Church in Tbilisi[SIZE]

Finally some good news from Georgian side. I hope they keep their promise. This is beyond bizarre to prefer Turkics (who are the biggest growing population in Georgia) over Armenians who have inputted so much into Georgia and were never anti-Georgian - most Armenians love Tiflis/Tbilisi like an Armenian city because it is so much tied to Armenian history along with Georgian one. I really hope Georgian leadership reviews its policies and realizes that without Armenia/Armenians - that counterbalances both Turkey and Azerbaijan - they will succumb to this very same Turkic factor within and without Georgia in not so distant future.

Armenian students and youth activists protested in front of the Georgian Embassy in Yerevan against the collapse of Surb Gevorg Armenian church, which happened as a result of complete neglect. This is the case with most of Armenian cultural monuments throughout Georgia (many Armenian churches have been illegally taken over by the Georgian Church). Surb Gevorg/Saint George collapsed only days before the Saint's holy day was celebrated throughout Georgia.

Georgian ambassador to RA has told the protesters that Surb Gevorg will be rebuilt by a combined Armenian-Georgian renovation team early next year.

Protest video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVlZEJLKMtQ

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Samvel Karapetyan – “We mourn the fact that the Saint Gevorg of Mughni Church in Tbilisi has collapsed. But what about the fate of St. Nishan’s, just 100 meters way?
[ 2009/11/23 | 18:25 ] Feature Stories interview culture
Sona Avagyan



The Saint Gevorg of Mughni Armenian Church in Tbilisi had a height of some 35 meters and an attractive design, especially on the eastern exterior façade where there were depictions of the benefactors and main altar. There were only two churches with a similar footprint in all of Georgia. The other is St. Mesrop Church in the Shahumyan (formerly Metz Shulaver) settlement in the Marneuli region.

On November 19, the dome of St Gevorg’s came crashing down and the church collapsed. Samvel Karapetyan, who heads the Armenian Architectural Research NGO spoke to “Hetq” about the incident and its significance.

Did St. Gevorg’s collapse due to the fact that it was no longer structurally sound?

Yes, the church structure was unsafe. But this was a result of many decades of neglect. It was Georgia that saw to it that the church deteriorated to the point of collapse. That’s to say, the lead up to the collapse was the result of a specific policy.

Normally, if a structure that possesses some historical value is on the verge of collapse, immediate measures are taken to fortify and secure the building. For example take our churches at Ani that aren’t on the verge of collapsing, some that have only one or two loose stones. The Turks have set up support beams and braces. http://hetq.am/en/culture/21260/

Either Karapetyan hasn't set foot on Ani since those "beams and braces" were set up, or he actually doesn't uinderstand how to properly "fortify and secure" buildings.

http://www.virtualani.org/2008/index.htm

[Federate]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

The pesky Georgians are at it again. Here is a video from inside the church http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deXYWMNJ5js
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Armenia Church is being destroyed in Georgia



Georgian religious leadership and Georgian state bodies responsible for preservation of monuments are planning to knock down Sourb Khack (Sat. Cross), a 7th century Armenian church in Akhaltshkha, Georgia, and replace it by a Georgian catholic church. A number of experts and workers have arrived at the site.

According to the Armenian priest in Akhaltshkha Ter Manouk Zeinalian, to the locals’ efforts at explaining that it’s an Armenian church and that no one has a right to ruin it, workers answer that they do not know anything and are just following orders. Father Zeinalian testifies that: “One of the altars has been destroyed and 4 stones with Armenian inscriptions have been unearthed from underneath. One of the stones has disappeared. One of the arches has been destroyed too. Armenians of Akhaltskha are demanding to stop the process. It’s an Armenian church and belongs to Armenians. ”

Leader of the Georgian Diocese of the Armenian Apostolic Church bishop Vazgen Mirzakhanian is visiting Akhaltskha to discuss the issue.

Note: This article, as with others collected by ArmeniaNow for this category, has been posted according to the originating source. ArmeniaNow is not responsible for content, nor for translation.

http://armenianow.com/arts_culture/22556/armenian_church_destoryed_in_georgia

[lampron]

Armenia and Georgia

700 years ago the two nations were close allies who together fought (and sometimes won) battles against Mongols, Tatars and Turcoman, Oghuz, Kara-Koyunlu, Ak-Koyunlu etc tribes.

What has gone wrong? Can the two nations become allies again?

[Tigranakert]

Re: Armenia and Georgia

What has gone wrong? Just the same thing as what has gone wrong between us and the Turks, Georgians are not trustworthy and were jealous because we were so prosperous in Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Syria, Armenia, Iran at the end of the 19th century. We were by far one, if not, the richest people in the whole region.

Actualy, today I read a part of a book about the Armenians in Tiflis (a town build by Armenians, with a majority population that was Armenian).

We were too succesful to cope with, and that was the starting point of all our disaster because we were not prepared to fight and take up arms against the barbaric peoples who ought to destroy us.

[lampron]

Re: Armenia and Georgia

We were too succesful to cope with, and that was the starting point of all our disaster because we were not prepared to fight and take up arms against the barbaric peoples who ought to destroy us.

I agree Armenians have not sacrificed themselves sufficiently.

Armenia could have been potentially much bigger than Georgia.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenia and Georgia

I agree Armenians have not sacrificed themselves sufficiently.

Armenia could have been potentially much bigger than Georgia.

Until 95 years ago Armenia was larger than georgia.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Georgian authorities do their best to clear Samtskhe-Javakheti region from Armenians



Georgian anti-Armenian policy is gaining momentum, and the recent elections showed it best.

The upcoming elections in Javakhk, if held, might bring this Armenian-populated region in Georgia to confrontation with the central government of Tbilisi. Today’s Akhalkalaki, alas, is no different from what was here 20 years ago: broken roads, poverty, unemployment, mass migration of the working population into Russia. In fact, all of the Georgian President’s statements on the “care taken of the problems of this region” have no value: there are neither normal roads, nor jobs. People here warm themselves with wood not because the region has no gas, but because the latter is too expensive. The situation in Akhalkalaki further deteriorated after withdrawal of the Russian military base, thanks to which Armenians could work in Javakhk instead of leaving it.
June 4, 2010

PanARMENIAN.Net - However, the base was gone, and problems appeared instead of it, unemployment being the most serious of them. Today only 800 people live in the region but they too are already packing up. The situation of the Armenians in Javakheti can be compared with the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh before 1988. The Georgian authorities are doing their best to clear the region from Armenians. There have remained almost no Armenians in the City of Akhaltsikhe, the center of the region. In Akhalkalaki and the neighboring villages, Armenian population forms a majority yet. According to local activists, the only requirement of the Armenian population is to be given autonomy within Georgia and permission to keep records in their native language, develop a culture and literature. But this is what Official Tbilisi cannot and does not want to provide. Instead, they force georgianization of remaining Armenian churches, mandatory introduction of the Georgian language in schools as the principal language. In short, Georgian anti-Armenian policy is gaining momentum, and the recent elections showed it best. But it is not only about the elections. Authorities have turned the Armenian community of Tbilisi into a kind of ephemeral society that can do nothing and does only what it considers good for the Armenians of Georgia. And there are only a few people who assess the situation adequately and realize where the policy of President Saakashvili leads.

Mikhail Saakashvili himself finally came to the conclusion that the best thing to do is to make friends with Turkey and Azerbaijan against Armenia. But, Armenian authorities have their share of guilt in the Georgian leadership’s current policy against the Armenian community of Georgia, too. For some reason we believe that it is erroneous to spoil relations with Georgia, because it is through Georgia that Armenia receives gas and the necessary goods from Russia. That is, we have put ourselves in the position of an applicant, in the position of the weak. No one in the world has yet reckoned and will ever reckon with the weak. If Saakashvili felt the tough position of Armenia in the issue of Javakhk, he would never dare to pursue an active policy of assimilation of Armenians. The region of Kvemo Kartli in Georgia is populated with Azeris, and they enjoy more rights than Armenians. However, it should be noted that any national minority is perceived as unfavorable in Georgia, and so in this respect there is no much difference between Armenians and Azeris in Georgia. The same is true about the xxxs, the remaining Russians and other nationalities. Special treatment is given to Meskhetian Turks, whom Tbilisi is reluctant to accept, despite the commitments signed in the Council of Europe. It should be noted that authorities and opposition share the same view in this issue: Georgia must be populated with Georgians. Here a direct parallel with the pan-Turkists suggests itself: everyone living in Turkey, regardless of his nationality, is a Turk. In fact, Georgia has chosen the same track as Ataturk, who decided to specify the religion instead of the nationality in passports, which is actually done now in Turkish identity cards. Such a democrat as Saakashvili will not probably take this extreme measure, but an attempt to “easy deportation” is already made. Whether Georgia will succeed or fail is difficult to predict. The Javakheti Armenians, for example, are not going anywhere, and it becomes clear from a conversation with them that they are waiting for the Russian military to return. This is not yet announced directly, but the truth is that there are such sentiments. And they cannot but be in a country in which monuments are erected and plaques are put in memory of the butchers of the Armenian nation, bot “eternal friendship and love” is sworn in word, on the other hand.

[iberia]

Re: West Armenia

in 1918 if there was not england yerevan would be ours