Armenian Georgian Relations

[UrMistake]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

He must be azeri turk from georgia i talked with him via facebook.he had no information about what his claims only but insults,the only thing he gave me is one of the other articles with same bullxxxx http://www.apsny.ge/analytics/1267415329.php

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

He probably got his education in azerbaijan from bunyadov.

[Setta]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

He's incompetent. The document related to the assertion that the first Britons were Armenian is the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle written by monks in the 9th century during the reign of Alfred the 1st. The only remaining fragments of the document are in the British Library, Oxford, and Cambridge.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Hi guys,

Three questions:

1. Re: the following article: Does anyone know if the "professor" Guram Markhuliya is a Georgian Christian or an Azerbaijani living and working in Georgia?
2. Was Adjaria ever inhabited or occupied by Armenia in ancient or modern times?
3. What is the attitude of the Adjarians towards Armenians? Are they hostile, disinterested, dismissive, etc? Does our interaction with the Adjarians resemble more closely our relationship with the Turks and Azeris or our relationship with the Iranians and Lebanese? If they received increased cultural independence, freedom of expression, and economic benefit under an Armenian realpolitik, how virulently would they resist a central government located in Yerevan rather than Tiblisi? How loyal will they be to Georgia if they are guaranteed autonomy from the Armenians that also includes an exponential improvement in their lives?

1. I don't know what his ethnic make up is, regardless, he is engaging in misinformation toward Armenia and Armenians. So he is scumbag.
2. Adjara has been under Armenian control during periods in the Middle Ages, but it has spent more time being influenced by Armenia and its culture, much like the Albanians but not to the same extent.
3. From what I know of the Adjarians, they like Armenians and would treat us well. They almost broke away from georgia until some last minute deal secured autonomy for them. I guess the georgians realized that losing Adjara would be great blow to their country since it would quickly fall under the sway of turkey, Armenia or even Russia. If you know about the Armenian population in Abkhazia, you can compare how our relationship is and would be (more or less) with the Adjarians. Since Adjarians already enjoy something close to independence, I think giving them outright independence would be a great way of getting them to the Armenian side. Regardless, none of this can happen without Russia's support, and we must not forget that turkey would be a player too. The questions then becomes, how active would the turks be? I suppose that would depend greatly on the role Russia played - the more Russia is involved the less the turks will be, in my opinion.

[Setta]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Thank you for your input. It's surprising the way internal problems caused by Turks and Azeris are projected by the Georgians onto the Armenians. Can't imagine why they're allowing Azeris to settle in such large numbers on the northern border of Armenia when there's more than enough land in Azerbaijan - the country where the oil billions are being generated. Or why the Georgians don't understand the extent to which Saakashvilli has undermined their security.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Thank you for your input. It's surprising the way internal problems caused by Turks and Azeris are projected by the Georgians onto the Armenians. Can't imagine why they're allowing Azeris to settle in such large numbers on the northern border of Armenia when there's more than enough land in Azerbaijan - the country where the oil billions are being generated. Or why the Georgians don't understand the extent to which Saakashvilli has undermined their security.

Well azeri's have settled more near the border areas between georgia and azerbaijan. The meskhetian turks are the ones I assume you are referring to when you say georgia has allowed them to settle in large numbers near Armenia's northern border, that is, in Javakh. Sadly, the causes of this and why sakofxxxxvili is still popular are due, in large part, to the deeper historical and societal issues that the starter of this thread refered to in the initial post.


And you should know that the majority of azeris in azerbaijan are dirt poor, they do not get any of the financial benefits from the oil or gas. The little sultan and his minions make sure of that.

[Nare]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

I'm trying to say it is not as dire as some people are making it out to be. Furthermore, azerbaijan, and georgia are having similar issues, so we are not the only ones with this issue.

I am afraid our situation in Armenia is indeed critical, more than people realize...First we have to accept we are experiencing major problems in Armenia, then we have to combat them...and only afterwards we can think what to do with our neighbours, situation in their countries is not good but still better than in our country.
I personally know quite a few people who are thinking to move to Georgia with families to start business since in Armenia is very tough with it and Saaka does everything to get people to invest in their country.

Recently Javakhk community of Russia issued a statement asking our govt to change the law of Javakhk people paying for the cars driving through Armenia, how can they even think in Armenia to charge javakhkci?!? All the money from those poor people goes into their own pockets? These are the questions to be tackled first and for most...

Pls, use google translate for the Russian text of one of the most positive bloggers who moved from Georgia to Armenia...he is our walking statistics in everything...

Население Армении сократилось на 13 тыс. человек

Согласно официальным данным, постоянное население Армении выросло на 12.5 тыс. чел., составив примерно 3.26 млн. чел.

В реальности же население сократилось чуть более чем на 13 тысяч человек (13 тыс 58 чел):

Родилось 44.810 (+1%),
Умерло 28.008 (+2%),
Естественный прирост таким образом составил 16.802 (-0.3%), а миграционная убыль в этом году выросла и составила 29.860 чел (в сравнении с 25 тыс в 2009, 23 тыс в 2008 и 3 тыс. в 2007 году (с 2004 по 2006 год был миграционный прирост).

Для сравнения, в 2009 году общая убыль населения составила 8.04 тыс., в 2008 году 9.263, в 2007 году был прирост 9.4 тыс (прирост был начиная с 2002 года, с 2002 по 2006 год население выросло на 74.4 тыс. чел.)

Ориентировочно, население Армении составляет от 2.95 млн чел до 3.05 млн., единственные более-менее надежные данные - данные переписи по наличному населению - 3,002.6 тысяч человек.

При всем этом число браков составило 18 тыс (упало на 4%), а число разводов - 3 тыс (выросло на 0.5%). Среди прочих негативных показателей - еще более выросла диспропорция между мальчиками и девочками - в ушедшем году на 100 девочек родилось 114 мальчиков. Младенческая смертность выросла на 10% и составила 11.3 промилле.

По регионам рождаемость составила:
(за базу беру население при переписи)

Ереван -- 14.3,
Арагацотн -- 17.1,
Арарат -- 15.7,
Армавир -- 15.9,
Гегхаркуник -- 16.1,
Лори -- 14.6,
Котайк -- 16.4,
Ширак -- 15.0,
Сюник -- 12.8,
Вайоц-Дзор -- 13.0,
Тавуш -- 13.7

Число родившихся выросло в Ереване (+1%), Лори (+9%), Армавире (+1.5%), Арарате (+4%), Арагацотне (+6%); сократилось -- в Шираке, Сюнике, Тавуше, Вайоц-Дзоре и Котайке, а в Гехаркунике не изменилось.

Число умерших остается практически неизменным, как и в прошлые годы. Во всех регионах число умерших выросло одинаково, примерно на 1.5-2.5%. По миграции с учетом регионов - данных нет.

Некоторые комментарии:
1. Число рождений динамично прирастало до середины 2010 года, с июля начался спад -- и если за первую половину года прирост составлял + 6.7%, то во второй половине был уже спад и по сравнению с июлем-декабрем 2009 года он составил чуть более 4%. Эта тенденция, видимо, будет долгосрочной и особенно усилится с 2015 года.
2. По миграции: тенденция, судя по всему, будет развиваться и дальше. В любом случае, в 2011 году будет отрицательный миграционный прирост (если конечно ничего экстраординарного не случится в России): согласно исследованию CRRC, 57% населения хотели бы временно, а 25% населения - постоянно - покинуть страну.
При этом, в Армении 56% имеют членов семьи или родственников за рубежом (для Грузии это 37%, для Азербайджана - 40%), а 36% имеют друзей за рубежом (также самый большой показатель). Также общее ощущение неудовлетворенности жизнью, согласно этому опросу, больше. См: http://crrc-caucasus.blogspot.com/20...e-armenia.html

[Nare]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Thank you for your input. It's surprising the way internal problems caused by Turks and Azeris are projected by the Georgians onto the Armenians. Can't imagine why they're allowing Azeris to settle in such large numbers on the northern border of Armenia when there's more than enough land in Azerbaijan - the country where the oil billions are being generated. Or why the Georgians don't understand the extent to which Saakashvilli has undermined their security.

Ajarians were converted by Turks into Islam and until recently 100% of them were Muslims. Centuries ago they tried to separate from Georgians and unite with Turks. Today many of them are Christians and they are fine with Armenian tourists. Most of them consider themselves Georgians today. At least that is what Armenian tourists get as a respond to their questions in Ajaria.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

I am afraid our situation in Armenia is indeed critical, more than people realize...First we have to accept we are experiencing major problems in Armenia, then we have to combat them...and only afterwards we can think what to do with our neighbours, situation in their countries is not good but still better than in our country.
I personally know quite a few people who are thinking to move to Georgia with families to start business since in Armenia is very tough with it and Saaka does everything to get people to invest in their country.

Recently Javakhk community of Russia issued a statement asking our govt to change the law of Javakhk people paying for the cars driving through Armenia, how can they even think in Armenia to charge javakhkci?!? All the money from those poor people goes into their own pockets? These are the questions to be tackled first and for most...

Pls, use google translate for the Russian text of one of the most positive bloggers who moved from Georgia to Armenia...he is our walking statistics in everything...

No one is saying Armenia does not have problems, after all, what country doesn't have problems. My issue is with those that think all of the problems can be laid squarely at the feet of the current government, and that somehow, if we get levon, or some other pro west canidate, that everything in Armenia will transform into a land of milk, honey, and unicorns.

To say that the overall situation in Armenia is more dire than in georgia and azerbaijan is really stretching the truth. Just as some Armenians may consider going to georgia, very few do and even fewer actually move, same is true about georgians moving to Armenia. But neither really proves anything. Another stat for you, Armenia has higher foreign direct investment (FDI) than georgia, and this has been true since 2008. Stats are numbers and they can be used to defend or detract, all of it just depends on your agenda.

That same saaka, is not going to be in office for much longer, the Russians are working on this, and he effectively lost S. Ossetia and Abkhazia. So while he may have done some positive things for georgia, overall he is a failure as a president.

[Nare]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

No one is saying Armenia does not have problems, after all, what country doesn't have problems. My issue is with those that think all of the problems can be laid squarely at the feet of the current government, and that somehow, if we get levon, or some other pro west canidate, that everything in Armenia will transform into a land of milk, honey, and unicorns.

To say that the overall situation in Armenia is more dire than in georgia and azerbaijan is really stretching the truth. Just as some Armenians may consider going to georgia, very few do and even fewer actually move, same is true about georgians moving to Armenia. But neither really proves anything. Another stat for you, Armenia has higher foreign direct investment (FDI) than georgia, and this has been true since 2008. Stats are numbers and they can be used to defend or detract, all of it just depends on your agenda.

That same saaka, is not going to be in office for much longer, the Russians are working on this, and he effectively lost S. Ossetia and Abkhazia. So while he may have done some positive things for georgia, overall he is a failure as a president.

Petk e gnas Vrastan vorpeszi qo achkerov tesnes te ichqan enq het mnacel irencic.

The question should not be between LTP, RK and SS. They are equally bad. But it is indeed a fact that current govt is the main source of depopulation in Armenia.
Half of population in Armenia only has one kid since they say they can't afford the second one. Numbers of our girls who can't have kids are steadily increasing. Moreover now numbers of our guys who can't have kids are increasing, something we didn't have before. Numbers of newborn babies dying is increasing.
More people from Armenia want to migrate than from our neighbouring countries. All we get from Georgia is puri bakers but they get our "brains and our hands". And obviously as ungrateful as they are centuries later they will assimilate our people, change their surnames and claim all contribution is done by Georgians to Georgia while in reality more is done by Armenians in Tiflis than by their lazy and untalanted people.

Inchi masin enq xosum ete mer erkric aghjikner' arden massayakan gnum en Turqya marmnavatcharutyamb zbaghvelu kam erexa nayelu? vrastan arden gnum enq, Turqya gnum enq, mnum a Aderbejan el gnanq...

Diaspora is afraid of LTP to come to power so they try to act as if it is not as bad.NO, it IS very bad..replace LTP with someone, send bright people form Diaspora to lead the nation, whatever but we must change situation today otherwise tomorrow will be late...

People don't go after LTP because they love him, they go after him in the hope to get rid of current regime. How come Diaspora hasn't "produced" anyone that Armenia also can trust and go after? Again, it is still possible to do it today.