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  • Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

    Originally posted by diaukhi View Post
    nekresi I century

    davatis stela IV century

    as you see georgian alphabet is older than yours
    you buil cities? tbilisi? old tbilisi buillt by arabs
    which churhces are georgianized? what about georian churches in anisi and lore( akhtala, qoberi, ardvi, sanini and others?
    armenians are very poor people. you have complex because you know that georgia is more ancient than you desert country. vardan mamikonian was chan ( laz) first armenian kingdomwas in 190 BC and colchis was 13 century bc and iberia was 5 century bc somxebo dabrundid balkanebze
    Don't you realise that all these sort of things make Georgia appear to be a very silly, imature country?

    This forum's resident extremists, those like Mos, are widespread in Armenia - and they have their exact equivalents in Georgia. But to counter their positions there exists a whole established field of Armenian Studies. However, no such thing exists in Georgia or for Georgia, and no legitimate academics will now touch your country because it is so tainted with propaganda production.

    I'll give you an example. Georgia's inferiority complex went into overdrive at the end of the 1990s when they discovered that, in connection with Armenia's traditional 1700th anniversary of its conversion to Christianity, several important exhibitions of Armenian Art were to be staged in various world capitals, including Paris and London. So they decided to produce their own "National Treasures of Georgia" exhibition. However, the exhibition ended up being so obvously propagandistic, with everything found inside the territorial limits of modern Georgia being labeled as "Georgian", with no other cultures mentioned, and with no context to the objects given (since that would mean mentioning Armenia and other neighbouring cultures) that no museum or gallery took up the offer to host the exhibition. A glossy hardback book was also produced, containing various articles by Georgian and non-Georgian authors. Those written by the Georgians are pure propaganda, and the non-Georgian authors disowned the book after their articles were edited and rewritten without permission to remove references to Armenia and make everything more "Georgia-centric". (See here http://www.hist.unibe.ch/unibe/philh...n-rapp_ger.pdf - quote: 1999 “Medieval Christian Georgia (c. 330-c. 1450),” in National Treasures of Georgia, Ori Z. Soltes ed. London: Philip Wilson Publishers, 1999. Pp. 84-92. NB: highly re-edited without my permission.)

    Your country has to stop behaving like a kid with a more successful big brother, it has to grow up, go its own way, and stop being obsessed about living in Armenia's cultural and historical shadow.
    Last edited by bell-the-cat; 08-06-2011, 07:40 AM.
    Plenipotentiary meow!

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    • Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

      A new example of Georgian propaganda. On the supposed development and origins of the St. Hripsime-type church plan. Published in New York this year.

      Click image for larger version

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      I wouldn't waste money buying it, but I'd like to see an online version of it.
      Plenipotentiary meow!

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      • Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

        Originally posted by diaukhi View Post
        tell me names of these churches which were armenian
        Georgia's cultural genocide

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        • Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

          Originally posted by lampron View Post
          the most churches are pure georgian. what about georgian churches in lore?
          if javakheti is armenian land then tell me armenian toponyms

          Comment


          • Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

            Originally posted by diaukhi View Post
            the most churches are pure georgian. what about georgian churches in lore?
            if javakheti is armenian land then tell me armenian toponyms
            The photographs on the cited website document the destruction of important historical and cultural monuments in Georgia - and all you do is reply with some nonsense about "toponyms". So, if everything pictured is, in your opinion, "pure Georgian", then their destruction is acceptable to you?

            More examples of the Georgian state and Georgian Church-sponsored destructions of Armenian cultural monuments in Georgia:


            The erasing of Armenian inscriptions is quite blatant:
            Monastery at Gremi, Kakheti, and church at Uspenia, Ananuri: http://www.ancestralstones.com/Gallery03.htm#ananuri
            And here also, at the St. Gevorg Monastery in Telet: http://www.raa.am/Magazine/Exhibitio...et_E_Exhib.htm

            Is this the intellectual level of Georgians? Has your nation no shame?
            Last edited by bell-the-cat; 08-07-2011, 07:10 AM.
            Plenipotentiary meow!

            Comment


            • Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

              Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
              The photographs on the cited website document the destruction of important historical and cultural monuments in Georgia - and all you do is reply with some nonsense about "toponyms". So, if everything pictured is, in your opinion, "pure Georgian", then their destruction is acceptable to you?

              More examples of the Georgian state and Georgian Church-sponsored destructions of Armenian cultural monuments in Georgia:


              The erasing of Armenian inscriptions is quite blatant:
              Monastery at Gremi, Kakheti, and church at Uspenia, Ananuri: http://www.ancestralstones.com/Gallery03.htm#ananuri
              And here also, at the St. Gevorg Monastery in Telet: http://www.raa.am/Magazine/Exhibitio...et_E_Exhib.htm

              Is this the intellectual level of Georgians? Has your nation no shame?
              @bell-the-cat
              I must say that I am suprised ! From now on we should call you Bell-The-Van-Cat

              Comment


              • Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

                Վրացիները Youtube-ում կեղծ հայկական էջեր են ստեղծում
                17:56 . 06/08
                Youtube կայքում բացվել է մի էջ, որտեղ բացահայտվում եւ ներկայացվում են youtube-ի կեղծ հայկական ալիքները (channel):
                eMedia.am-ը հայտնում է, որ բացված էջում յուրաքանչյուրը կարող է տեղադրել իրեն կասկածելի թվացող տեսանյութերի էջի մասին նշում, ինչպես նաեւ՝ այդ էջի հասցեն։ Այսպիսով, նախաձեռնությունը հնարավորություն կստանա բացահայտել ու ներկայացնել հակահայկական քարոզչությամբ զբաղվող անհատներին եւ խմբերին:
                Կայքի փոխանցմամբ, արդեն կան "ջրի երես դուրս բերված" կեղծ ազգայնականների youtube-ի մի քանի ալիքներ։ Ուշագրավն այն է, որ պարզվել է՝ բացահայտված էջերի մեծ մասը ստեղծված են վրացիների կողմից:

                Կեղծ հայկական ալիքների թվում են armstefan, hamshen1, HAYASTAN2, allegold, khacekirner, Antirussia, MrArmenianProud, Erman881 եւ այլն: Կեղծ ալիքերի ժողովածուն youtube-ում կրում է "WARNINGFalsChannels" անունը եւ հասանելի է հետեւյալ հղումով http://www.youtube.com/user/WARNINGFalsChannels: Այստեղ զգուշացվում է, որ տվյալ "հայկական" ալիքները հակահայկական քարոզչություն են իրականացնում եւ վարկաբեկում են հայերին՝ կեղծելով պատմությունն ու ագրեսիվ տրամադրություն ստեղծելով։

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                • Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

                  Armenia: Property Disputes Fueling Church Tension between Yerevan and Tbilisi
                  August 10, 2011 - 2:21pm, by Gayane Abrahamyan

                  The Georgian Orthodox Church’s claim to several monasteries in neighboring Armenia is stoking religious tension between the two South Caucasus neighbors.

                  The fact that Armenia was the first country to adopt Christianity as a state religion (in 301 AD) is a source of national pride in Yerevan, and government officials accordingly tend to be quick to defend the prerogatives of the Armenian Apostolic Church. Authorities in Georgia, the third country to make Christianity its state religion (in 326 AD, after Ethiopia), feel similarly strongly about the rights of the Georgian Orthodox Church. These deeply held opinions ensure that cross-border property claims are a delicate topic.

                  Neither church today enjoys the status as a state religion, although both represent the faith of a large majority of Armenians and Georgians respectively.

                  In the post-Soviet era, church relations have travelled on a bumpy path. A brief thaw set in after Georgian authorities in July approved regulatory changes that would allow the Armenian Apostolic Church to gain official status in Georgia. The Georgian Orthodox Church opposed the revisions, but Armenian Apostolic Church representatives told RFE/RL that it believed the objections did not have sectarian roots.

                  These days, property disputes are the primary source of tension. In Armenia, the Georgian Orthodox Church desires official status and ownership of five monasteries in areas near the Armenian-Georgian border that it claims were founded as Georgian churches. Four of the disputed properties are in the Lori region -- the monasteries of Akhtala, Kobair, Hnevanq, and Khuchap. The fifth, the Kirants monastery, is in the Tavush region.

                  The Armenian Apostolic Church supports its Georgian counterpart’s request for official status, but Armenian church leaders object to handing over the monasteries.

                  “It [the Georgian Church] demands churches whose ownership is still disputed,” claimed Armenian Apostolic Church spokesperson Father Vahram Melikian.

                  The Armenian Apostolic Church contends that though these monasteries may have functioned as Georgian believers during the 11th and 12th centuries, they were built as Armenian Apostolic churches and should remain so.

                  Practical considerations also should be taken into account, added Father Vahram. The low number of ethnic Georgians living in Armenia –only about 600, according to government data – does not justify the transfer of five monasteries, Vahram contended.

                  During a June visit to Tbilisi, Armenian Apostolic Church Catholicos Karekin II gave a more open-ended answer to Georgian Orthodox Church Patriarch Ilia II on the matter. “You put your arguments down, we’ll look at them. What prevents us from resolving these questions?” Karekin II said in an unofficial videotaped chat posted on YouTube.

                  Ethnic Georgians in Armenia approach the church-property issue gingerly. Local Georgian Orthodox believers do not yet have official registration, a status that would grant them the ability to build churches. The law is applicable to all religious communities with at least 200 members. “It is unclear why they have not registered,” Father Vahram commented.

                  At Yerevan’s St. George church, which serves a tiny Georgian Orthodox community, the priest, Father Alexander, said that he petitioned Georgian Orthodox Church Patriarch Ilia II in 2006 to be recognized as a Georgian Orthodox church, “but didn’t get any answer.”

                  Religious rights watchdogs in the past have reported that some Christian denominations skirt registration requirements since they see it as an avenue for government interference.

                  Members of Armenia’s ethnic Georgian community tend to look to Patriarch Ilia II and Catholicos Karekin II to take the lead on tackling the question of ownership of the Lori and Tavush monasteries.

                  The property disputes go both ways. The Armenian Apostolic Church lays claim to five churches in Tbilisi and one in the southern Georgian town of Akhaltsikhe, which has a large ethnic Armenian population. Father Vahram said the property claims were motivated by an Armenian church desire to defend the religious rights of ethnic Armenians living in Georgia. Such explanations, however, leave many in Tbilisi feeling suspicious.

                  Editor's note: Gayane Abrahamyan is a reporter for ArmeniaNow.com in Yerevan.

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                  • Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

                    do not talk with georgians! they are xxxxing rats,fake!all the life they were copying our land and history! do not forget you xxxxx who made iberia to georgia,The brother of our king Bagratouni! go xxxx with USA!

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                    • Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

                      TBILISI. - Another Armenian church was vandalized in Georgia. This time it was Church of Surb Etchmiadzin located in the capital, Tbilisi, which was consecrated by Armenian Catholicos Karekin II two months ago.

                      On August 19 evening two young people, supposedly drunk, entered the Armenian church. Two sellers of candles and cleanup woman labeled their behavior as arrogant and disrespectful, Armenia-based Yerkir Media television reported.

                      One of them started to turn over the pages of the Holy Book placed on the sanctuary tearing off one of the pages. He also sat down on the chair of bishop. Women tried to call young people to order and finally ousted them from the church. Young people tore off the announcements installed on the doors and burnt them down.

                      Bishop Vazgen Mirzakhanyan said they had appealed to police. Diocese of the Armenian church intends to appeal to Georgia’s Internal Ministry and other structures and file a note of protest to the Georgian Orthodox Church.

                      Mirzakhanyan said young people’s behavior is a result of the recent amendments made to the legislation providing for legal status to the religious minorities of Georgia. The legislation sparked anti-Armenian sentiments.

                      The Armenian diocese of Georgia plans to issue a statement on the incident. Earlier Georgia’s ombudsman was informed. A month ago unknown left inscriptions insulting Armenians on the walls of a hotel located near the Surb Etchmiadzin church.


                      Two young people, supposedly drunk, entered the Armenian church…

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