Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

[karoaper]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

I think the continuous is well defined in Eastern:

I am going (pres cont) - Yes gnum em
I was going (past cont) - Yes gnum ei
I will be going (future cont) - Yes gnalu em as opposed to Yes kgnam (simple future) which is I will go.
I would have been going (weird cont) - Yes gnalu ei

So, maybe the continuous in not defined in Western, because the -um suffix is not used in Western? So, to distinguish the future continuous from simple future tense, the Western Armenian adds "gor". I don't know, is this right?

[Siamanto]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

Ill give an example for when it has been used

"Einch gines gor"

Which in eastern would be Einch anumes?

First of all, in Eastern Armenian it would be " inches anum?" and not "inch anumes?"

Though the correct syntax may be "Intch es anum" - not "Intches anum," if one should be grammatically correct; the "degenerate" interrogative form is relatively common in languages, when spoken.

secondly in the Eastern dialect the present simple and
present continuous tenses are the same and one can be distinguished
from the other inside the context or by simply adding certain adverbs
such as the following; " inches anum?" "girk em kartum, hima." "utumem arayjms", etc.

Using temporal adverbs or "paraphrasing" - what I usually do - is not a solution, but only a workaround that works sometimes; in fact
1. Both "I am exercising" - for instance, as a recurrent activity - and "I am exercising, now" are valid and have different meanings and a temporal adverb is already used in the latter
2. "I swim, now" - i.e. I did not in the past, but I do now - does not mean "I am swimming;" using temporal adverbs when translating would confuse the two
There are many such examples and some are real subtle and/or complicated. Furthermore, It becomes more complicated and subtle when the action happens - or is happening - in the past or the future.

I have a certain "bias" against "gor" and I do a lot of effort to avoid using it; however, I can't deny that it's existence is legitimate and reflects a serious shortcoming of the Armenian language - that was solved in spoken Western Armenian with the usage of "gor." Armenian grammarians and linguists, instead of criticizing and snubbing the usage of "gor," should maybe work on a solution; as they are responsible for the situation. A simple solution - as it is in French - may be found.

[Lucin]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

Ill give an example for when it has been used

"Einch gines gor"

Which in eastern would be Einch anumes?

First of all, in Eastern Armenian it would be " inches anum?" and not "inch anumes?" secondly in the Eastern dialect the present simple and present continuous tenses are the same and one can be distinguished from the other inside the context or by simply adding certain adverbs such as the following; " inches anum?" "girk em kartum, hima." "utumem arayjms", etc.

[Siamanto]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

Isn't "Intch anum es" the equivalent of "Intch g'@nes?" How do you distinguish in Eastern Armenian between "Intch g'@nes" and "Intch g'@nes gor?"

Beg your pardon? Sorry, I didn't understand what you were asking.

If you are asking how I tell Eastern Armenian and Western apart? It is by the way they speak. My fathers side of the family extends everything at the end when they speak.

1. I said: Isn't "Intch anum es" the equivalent of "Intch g'@nes" - and not "Intch g'@nes gor?"

2. I asked: How do you distinguish, in Eastern Armenian, between "Intch g'@nes" and "Intch g'@nes gor?"

[Alexzan]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

Isn't "Intch anum es" the equivalent of "Intch g@nes?" How do you distinguish in Eastern Armenian between "Intch g@nes" and "Intch g@nes gor?"

Beg your pardon? Sorry, I didn't understand what you were asking.

If you are asking how I tell Eastern Armenian and Western apart? It is by the way they speak. My fathers side of the family extends everything at the end when they speak.

[Siamanto]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

Ill give an example for when it has been used

"Einch gines gor"

Which in eastern would be Einch anumes?

Isn't "Intch anum es" the equivalent of "Intch g'@nes?" How do you distinguish in Eastern Armenian between "Intch g'@nes" and "Intch g'@nes gor?"

[Alexzan]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

Ill give an example for when it has been used

"Einch gines gor"

Which in eastern would be Einch anumes?

A couple of comments:

1. "Gor" is used to fill a shortcoming of the Armenian language where the continuous forms of verb tenses do not exist - i.e. I am going, I was going etc. By the way, other languages - i.e. French - lack the continuous form.

2. "Gor" seems to be a *urkish influence; in fact, the *urkish suffix "yor" is equivalent to the Armenian "gor"

3. "Gor" is only used in spoken Armenian and is not considered proper Armenian

4. I was puzzled when I heard Armenians from Aleppo, Syria use "eh" instead. For instance, instead of "gou kam gor," they say "Gou kameh." I don't know if all Armenians from Syria, use the same suffix to form the continuous form???

5. It is possible to avoid using it - at least in most cases, if not all; but, it requires some effort and it's not always straightforward. I wonder how the continuous form is expressed in Eastern Armenian?

[Siamanto]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

I speak both Eastern and western (Mostly western)
I don't see a HUGEEEE difference but it still gets complicated for me sometimes. And I don't want to sound rude but, why do some eastern speakers get mad when we use "gor"

A couple of comments:

1. "Gor" is used to fill a shortcoming of the Armenian language where the continuous forms of verb tenses do not exist - i.e. I am going, I was going etc. By the way, other languages - i.e. the French - lack the continuous form.

2. "Gor" seems to be a *urkish influence; in fact, the *urkish suffix "yor" is equivalent to the Armenian "gor"

3. "Gor" is only used in spoken Armenian and is not considered proper Armenian

4. I was puzzled when I heard Armenians from Aleppo, Syria use "eh" instead. For instance, instead of "gou kam gor," they say "Gou kameh." I don't know if all Armenians from Syria, use the same suffix to form the continuous form???

5. It is possible to avoid using it - at least in most cases, if not all; but, it requires some effort and it's not always straightforward. I wonder how the continuous form is expressed in Eastern Armenian?

I don't get mad when you say 'gor' in your conversation but when I have asked what it means exactly, none of you guys have been able to give a clear answer.

Can it be that you have missed the explanation or "discarded" it? With you, it happens so frequently.






Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations

[Lucin]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

I speak both Eastern and western (Mostly western)
I don't see a HUGEEEE difference but it still gets complicated for me sometimes. And I don't want to sound rude but, why do some eastern speakers get mad when we use "gor"

I don't get mad when you say 'gor' in your conversation but when I have asked what it means exactly, none of you guys have been able to give a clear answer.

[Alexzan]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

I speak both Eastern and western (Mostly western)
I don't see a HUGEEEE difference but it still gets complicated for me sometimes. And I don't want to sound rude but, why do some eastern speakers get mad when we use "gor"