Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

[Armenian]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

Need some good conversational practice though.

You need an Armo chick.

[skhara]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

An excellent website to learn the correct pronunciations of the Armenian language: http://www.menq.am/tarer_main.htm

I like this website. I basically used this site to learn the alphabet and learn to read. Need some good conversational practice though.

[Azad]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

"momi lusov khavari mech hamataradz..."

khavar = darkness

Now it makes sense.
Thanks

[Armenian]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

An excellent website to learn the correct pronunciations of the Armenian language: http://www.menq.am/tarer_main.htm

[Armenian]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

Could someone knowledgeable of the Eastern Dialect tell me if Arthur is using "Khabar" Arabic for "News" Armenian for "Lour" or is it a different meaning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3J0V...elated&search=

Sorry Levon jan, I just saw this.

"momi lusov khavari mech hamataradz..."

khavar = darkness

Tarorinak mard ararats by Meschian is of my favorite songs. An absolute masterpieces, it's almost like a solemn desperate prayer. Regardless of how many times I hear, it shakes my soul.

My God, just read the lyrics which was written by Mushegh Ishkhan:

Տարօրինակ մարդ արարած
Խոսք՝ Մուշեղ Իշխան
Երաժշտություն՝ Արթուր Մեսչյան

Տարօրինակ, տարօրինակ մարդ արարած
Մոմի լոյսով՝ խաւարի մէջ համատարած
Կը հալածես դու տեսիլքներ արեւավառ
Կը խարխափես բայց խաւարին չես հաւատար:

Արցունքներիդ միգամածին խորէն տմոյն
Գիտես նայել արշալոյսի ճաճանչներին
Սգի քօղի տակ յուսալից դու սիրահար՝
Կը տառապես եւ վշտերիդ չես հաւատար:

Վզիդ շղթայ եւ թեւերիդ ծանր կապանք՝
Դու կը փորձես արծիւներին վայել ճախրանք
Եւ այս կեանքի մեծ բանտի մէջ բազմակամար
Դու կը խեղդուես՝ շղթաներիդ չես հաւատար:

Փուշ ու տատասկ քեզ կ՚արիւնեն ճամբիդ վրայ,
Բայց խոցոտուած քո մատներով արիւնլուայ
Դու կ՚որոնես ծաղիկների հոգին պայծառ,
Ցաւից կ՚ոռնաս եւ ցաւերիդ չես հաւատար:

Տարօրինակ, տարօրինակ մարդ արարած
Քո ձեռքերով հողին կը տաս կեանքեր ծաղկած,
Կը զգաս դէմքիդ մահուան քամին եւ հողմավար
Կ՚ընկնես անշունչ, սակայն մահուան չես հաւատար:

[Azad]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

Your (somewhat) right.
Alot of words are similar but the Eastern dialect uses alot of Russian words as where in the Western dialect there are no russian words but instead we, (Im saying we, because I speak in the western dialect) use alot of Arabic words.

The choice of Russian or Arabic is strictly substituted by individuals that do not know or replaced the proper Eastern or Western Armenian words. Very few words of Arabic are part of our language be it Eastern or Western. We have less foreign words in the Armenian vocabulary than any other nation's language. The most commonley used in Armenian and many other nations is "fedayee". Could someone knowledgeable of the Eastern Dialect tell me if Arthur is using "Khabar" Arabic for "News" Armenian for "Lour" or is it a different meaning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3J0VjZvRIM&mode=related&search=

[NightOwl]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

I dont know much on the subject but have heard of different dialects,,Someone I know told me Ken Davitian in Borat speaks the real Armenian language.

[Kanki]

I live in the US, but speak the Eastern dialect, with Russian words, (basiclly the dialect people speak in Armenia). However, all the Armenians I know in my area have a Western dialect, and when they hear me speak, they comment that i don not know the real Armenian basically saying that I do not know Armenian. Well, they might say it in the states, but when they go to Armenia they will see that the motherland speaks the eastern dialect. Anybody else ever experience this?

ps. take no offense western dialect speakers,

United States,Brazil,Argentina etc, were set up by Europeans! They killed indians!!! These lands are not belong them originally!! You still say westrern Armenia!!! Today there is Turkey!!! Forget it! You are as same as Indians!!

[Lucin]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

The French "Elle parla, quand on a parlé" presents more than a difficulty:
1. The "passé simple," as opposed to the "passé composé" describes actions of short duration and that have started and finished in the past (See below.)
To keep it simple, it, more or less, says "she briefly spoke when we( orthey) ("on" is ambiguous) spoke, and we(or they) continued to speak." Translating both "parla" and "a parlé" using the same tense, the information is lost.



2. The second difficulty is to translate the ambiguity of "on" in an elegantly enough manner, as such an ambiguity may add a bit of style and poetry; in fact, the reader may wonder whether the speaker was in the party or just an outside observer - i.e. whether "on" replaces "we" or "they." Of course, more complicated scenarios may be considered.

3. The third difficulty is due to the lack of gender in Armenian. "նա" is ambiguous, and does not translate an ambiguity in the original French sentence.

In other words, " Երբ որ մենք խոսեցինք, նա խոսեց" is a highly lossy translation of "elle parla, quand on a parlé." Do you want to try again?

So you suggest that the two actions s'entrecroisent ( interwine?) in the past. I can only think of the following (in Armenian);

Երբ մենք դեռ խոսում էինք, նա (համառոտ) խոսեց:

Or to avoid some repetitions such as the subject and the verb «խոսել» : Դեռ խոսում էինք որ նա (համառոտ) արատյայտվեց:
What do you suggest in Armenian?

(By the way, the French imparfait can designate a continuous activity in the past; however, it can't be considered the continuous form of the past. I have noticed, in your other posts, that both you and karoaper, are considering a tense that may designate a continuous action/activity as the continuous form a tense. From a grammatical - i.e. syntactic - point of view, that is incorrect, even when semantically "acceptable." Also, in some cases, there may be semantic differences; for instance, compare "il était en train de manger" and "il mangeait.)"

I agree. But where? Quote me please. By the way, isn't it the case only in French?

If that is the case, then, please, share with us
1. A reference grammar - that you consider more reliable
2. The inaccuracies that you have noticed
And we'll compare the reference grammar to the ones mentioned above and if more reliable, we'll considered it as the main reference. Later, we'll consider the "inaccuracies," case by case.
As a rule, when the two sources that I've mentioned disagree, then I would consider Armenian Language Lessons: Verbs (Part I) as correct, unless proven otherwise.

In any case, I'm afraid that stating it without any facts and explanations is of no use.

No. Right now, I do not have any sources. However a question: Is Գնացել եմ = I went???

[Siamanto]

Re: Western dialect vs. Eastern dialect

Here's a little challenge: "Elle parla, quand on a parlé."
It's also a challenge to elegantly translate it into English without losing information

How would you translate it ( in Armenian or English)??? Which action would come first? Hers or theirs? I think the latter...
Երբ որ մենք խոսեցինք, նա խոսեց: .

The French "Elle parla, quand on a parlé" presents more than a difficulty:
1. The "passé simple," as opposed to the "passé composé" describes actions of short duration and that have started and finished in the past (See below.)
To keep it simple, it, more or less, says "she briefly spoke when we( orthey) ("on" is ambiguous) spoke, and we(or they) continued to speak." Translating both "parla" and "a parlé" using the same tense, the information is lost.

Le passé simple est aussi appelé « passé défini ». Ce temps du récit donne une vision globale du procès. Le passé simple, très peu employé à l'oral (on le remplace généralement pas le passé composé), indique une action brève dans un contexte passé. Il exprime un fait situé dans un passé révolu, sans lien avec le moment de l'énonciation.

Valeur de base :
* Valeur temporelle : il situe un procès dans le passé. Hier, à quatorze heures, il neigea.
* Valeur aspectuelle :
o Aspect tensif : le passé simple montre l'action elle-même, du début à la fin.

more details...

Le passé composé : c'est fondamentalement un temps du discours. L'événement passé se prolonge par ses conséquences dans le présent de l'énonciateur.
* Valeur aspectuelle : le passé composé est plus une forme composée du présent qu'un temps du passé.

more details...

2. The second difficulty is to translate the ambiguity of "on" in an elegantly enough manner, as such an ambiguity may add a bit of style and poetry; in fact, the reader may wonder whether the speaker was in the party or just an outside observer - i.e. whether "on" replaces "we" or "they." Of course, more complicated scenarios may be considered.

3. The third difficulty is due to the lack of gender in Armenian. "նա" is ambiguous, and does not translate an ambiguity in the original French sentence.

In other words, " Երբ որ մենք խոսեցինք, նա խոսեց" is a highly lossy translation of "elle parla, quand on a parlé." Do you want to try again?

(By the way, the French imparfait can designate a continuous activity in the past; however, it can't be considered the continuous form of the past. I have noticed, in your other posts, that both you and karoaper, are considering a tense that may designate a continuous action/activity as the continuous form a tense. From a grammatical - i.e. syntactic - point of view, that is incorrect, even when semantically "acceptable." Also, in some cases, there may be semantic differences; for instance, compare "il était en train de manger" and "il mangeait.)"

P.S: Siamanto, there are some obvious mistakes and inaccuracies within the two sites ( especially Wiki) that you consider as "reference".

If that is the case, then, please, share with us
1. A reference grammar - that you consider more reliable
2. The inaccuracies that you have noticed
And we'll compare the reference grammar to the ones mentioned above and if more reliable, we'll considered it as the main reference. Later, we'll consider the "inaccuracies," case by case.
As a rule, when the two sources that I've mentioned disagree, then I would consider Armenian Language Lessons: Verbs (Part I) as correct, unless proven otherwise.

In any case, I'm afraid that stating it without any facts and explanations is of no use.