Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

[gmd]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

this is an interesting discussion. enough of one for me to log on and comment. i am trying to understand the comments about an Armenian race and/or fatherland. i thought we were a distinct cultural group not a race unto ourselves. and what is a fatherland? is it the land of your forefathers or the land you call home? I left Armenia alot earlier then Fedayeen but I can empathize with his situation because I have come in contact with enough Armenians who left during the post independence days. even my memories of Soviet Armenia are not golden ones.

at the rate the brain drain is occurring in Armenia and other similar nations I do not see how it is a benefit to anyone but the developed nations who are snapping up all the talent.
the remittence back home will be slowing and eventually stopping. sooner or later Armenia needs to stand on its own feet or there will not be enough Armenians in Armenia for it to be called Armenia anymore.

[Armenian]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

I'm getting tired of this stupid nonsenses.

gmd, I suggest you take your Japanese wife and children and visit your long lost homeland. You and your family will be pleasantly surprised. After you come back we'll talk about whether or not there will be enough Armenians in Armenia for the nation to be called Armenia anymore...

Where do all you people come out off?

...the remittence back home will be slowing and eventually stopping. sooner or later Armenia needs to stand on its own feet or there will not be enough Armenians in Armenia for it to be called Armenia anymore...

[Shahan]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

Yes, it's obvious you are confused.

I'm not confused at all. I know very well where you are coming from and most importantly where you are heading to. Depi hayreniq (as you put it) LOL.
Of course you (and the likes of you) would want to go to Armenia, Hayreniq where a young native yerevantsi family will be renting, paying through their nose, for one of your properties, while the other one will clean your huge house which you bought for peanuts from another suffering local. etc etc.
Who are you kidding? You are an American so stay in America and put your considerable knowledge of our history and love for all things Armenian towards making sure our vast American diaspora stays Armenian.

What would your avatar sake Garegin say about this matter?

He'd say to you stay where you are (USA) and provide leadership to those Armenians around you, teach them what it's mean to be Armenian, teach them our language and history, organize them! That's exactly what Garegin did in USA.

I don't want to go into detail but the Armenian Republic today is full of worthless and useless citizens. In my opinion, they should all be allowed to gradually leave the nation. At the same time, however, there should be a pan-Armenian program set up to attract conscientious Armenians from around the world.

You and the likes of you to Armenia are what jhud (joo) zionists were to Palestine in the 1920ies. Palestinians welcomed them and gave them bread while jhuds stabbed them in the back and stole their land. The rest is a history. But what happened to Palestinians will never happen to Hayastantsis no matter how much you wish and pray for it to happen.

Don't forget I'm an Akhpar?

That's right, an akhpar - a foreigner with an Armenian heritage, you are just a guest, nothing more nothing less. The problem is that you don't appreciate our hospitality and show disrespect to Hayastantsis. That's the result of a failed government policy, which gave foreigners property and residency rights in Armenia. But things will change and mistakes will be fixed.

Are you one of them ppzogh geghatsis? What is your point?

I'm neither geghatsi (villager) nor geghtsi (uneducated). I'm a proud 3rd generation Yerevantsi with an honours degree from one of the best European Universities (a non English one). I love our geghatsis (villagers) dearly, while you dispise them so much. Our Nzhdeh, whos words you use as your signature, was a Hayastantsi geghatsi (Nakhichevani marz, Kznut gekh). Geghatsis are the most sincere, hardworking and patriotic Hayastantsis. One geghatsi is worth more than 50 akhpars.

Learn correct Armenian grammar. It's spelled "yeghav" (Եղավ) and my name is not Ara.

Eghav@ et goghakanova vorits du gaghapar chunes u chesel unenana, inchpes nayev mer surb Hayastanits u mer anoush Yerevanits chunes u chesel unena. Yes vor hayereni ughagrutiunits 5-ei stanum to du ureir, ara? Ha hents ara. Minchev qo verabermunq@ im erkri u im erkratsineri nkatmamb chpoxes, kmnas ara. Jogir inchem asum, ara?

[TomServo]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

I'm afraid we will never reach the point where we as a race are not facing danger.

Sadly true.

Because we have people like you who put them selfs above others.

People like him, and also people like Shahan.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

I'm neither geghatsi (villager) nor geghtsi (uneducated). I'm a proud 3rd generation Yerevantsi with an honours degree from one of the best European Universities (a non English one). I love our geghatsis (villagers) dearly, while you dispise them so much. Our Nzhdeh, whos words you use as your signature, was a Hayastantsi geghatsi (Nakhichevani marz, Kznut gekh). Geghatsis are the most sincere, hardworking and patriotic Hayastantsis. One geghatsi is worth more than 50 akhpars.

Ծո ընձի լսէ դու էրէվնցի էս: Սուս մնխ ու տեղտ նստի: Ստէղ էգե խոսասկը ինչ ղոր չիդեթ ինչ ես: Դու ըդպէս կնայես դրսի Հայերին
Հայաստանը սաղ Հայերի յերցիրնե օվ օր կսե ուրիշ բան ըդուր լավը քունեմ
Հայաստանը բդի տըն շինենկ սաղ հայերի համար
հասկծար ընձի ձո

[Armenian]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

I'm not confused at all. I know very well where you are coming from and most importantly where you are heading to. Depi hayreniq (as you put it) LOL. Of course you (and the likes of you) would want to go to Armenia, Hayreniq where a young native yerevantsi family will be renting, paying through their nose, for one of your properties, while the other one will clean your huge house which you bought for peanuts from another suffering local. etc etc. Who are you kidding?

Yeah, and some of those "young native yerevantsi" families are selling their wives and daughters to the highest bidders in Turkey and the Emirates. Yeah, those same families that would sell their mothers just to get a visa to the USA. Stop your nonsense. The bottom line is, you are at heart an envious Bolshevik, with no sense of honor, decency or nation.

He'd say to you stay where you are (USA) and provide leadership to those Armenians around you, teach them what it's mean to be Armenian, teach them our language and history, organize them! That's exactly what Garegin did in USA.

Why should I teach them anything? So that when they go to the Hairaniq they will meet garbage men like you telling them that they are guests? And obviously you know nothing about Garegin, which is typical of the "proud" yet utterly shallow Armenians of your caliber.

You and the likes of you to Armenia are what jhud (joo) zionists were to Palestine in the 1920ies. Palestinians welcomed them and gave them bread while jhuds stabbed them in the back and stole their land. The rest is a history. But what happened to Palestinians will never happen to Hayastantsis no matter how much you wish and pray for it to happen. That's right, an akhpar - a foreigner with an Armenian heritage, you are just a guest, nothing more nothing less. The problem is that you don't appreciate our hospitality and show disrespect to Hayastantsis. That's the result of a failed government policy, which gave foreigners property and residency rights in Armenia. But things will change and mistakes will be fixed.

Oh, really? Armenians of the Diaspora are as different from native Armenians as Jooz are to Palestinians??? We are guests there, nothing more nothing less? How Bolshevik of you... As far as I'm concerned the type of Armenian you represent are more harmful to the Armenian Republic than the most violent Turk. Sadly, there may be Turks here seeing this exchange. What a disgusting person you are. I am glad, that you and your kind are slowly being driven out of our country. Less of your Turkic leftovers there the better will the country be. There is no place in Armenia for Turkified Bolsheviks like you.

And the only mistake I see here is your existence.

I'm neither geghatsi (villager) nor geghtsi (uneducated). I'm a proud 3rd generation Yerevantsi with an honours degree from one of the best European Universities (a non English one).

You are at heart an ignorant lowlife Geghatsi, stop your theatrics. And I would wipe my ass with your "honours degree from one of the best European Universities."

Eshin ur el ugharkes esh k'mna...

I love our geghatsis (villagers) dearly, while you dispise them so much. Our Nzhdeh, whos words you use as your signature, was a Hayastantsi geghatsi (Nakhichevani marz, Kznut gekh). Geghatsis are the most sincere, hardworking and patriotic Hayastantsis. One geghatsi is worth more than 50 akhpars.

Allow an Akhbar to teach you proper Armenian, once again: Geghatsi is not the same as Gyughatsi. I suggest you call your hayrik and ask him what the difference is.

An Armenian patriot in Armenia is worth the entire diaspora. The worth of a Bolshevik "geghatsis" like you, however, is the same as the worth of a typical Anatolian Turk. And one Diasporan Armenian returning to the Fatherland is worth more than the entire "Hayastantsi" population of Southern California.

Eghav@ et goghakanova vorits du gaghapar chunes u chesel unenana, inchpes nayev mer surb Hayastanits u mer anoush Yerevanits chunes u chesel unena. Yes vor hayereni ughagrutiunits 5-ei stanum to du ureir, ara? Ha hents ara. Minchev qo verabermunq@ im erkri u im erkratsineri nkatmamb chpoxes, kmnas ara. Jogir inchem asum, ara?

Tipik poghotsayin turki lakot es, jogir inchem asum ara

[gmd]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

I'm getting tired of this stupid nonsenses.

gmd, I suggest you take your Japanese wife and children and visit your long lost homeland. You and your family will be pleasantly surprised. After you come back we'll talk about whether or not there will be enough Armenians in Armenia for the nation to be called Armenia anymore...

Where do all you people come out off?

having a different perspective then you does not necessarily make it stupid. a one sided ultranationalist view does not guarantee anything for a tiny nation in a bad neighborhood. especially when that nationalism is felt from the other side of the world. my visits to my birthplace is not the topic of this discussion.

[Armenian]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

having a different perspective then you does not necessarily make it stupid. a one sided ultranationalist view does not guarantee anything for a tiny nation in a bad neighborhood. especially when that nationalism is felt from the other side of the world. my visits to my birthplace is not the topic of this discussion.

I'll tell you why this is stupid, gmd. Just read some of the comments written here:

One says that he'll never step foot in the country again because it's corrupt, because he and his family had bad experiences there, because it's this, it's that... And more-or-less claims: What's the point in instilling an Armenian identity in your children if they are going to assimilate anyway.

Another one wants to give us advise about being an "Armenian" although he has married outside of the culture and has not even attempted to visit his birthplace, and more-or-less claims that the country is doomed.

Yet another claims to know what Garegin Nzhteh stood for but says we diasporans are nothing but "guests" in our Republic. Compares diasporan Armenians to European Jooz forcefully colonizing Palestine (thats a xxxxing first, I must say). And goes on to complain about diasporans "employing" natives and "purchasing" property in the country. And looks forward to more-or-less severing the nation's ties with the diaspora...

Yes gmd, this is all f***ing stupid, for these types of backward, ignorant, self-destructive, Bolshevik derived mentalities are what we Armenians don't need today and can do without in the future. And it is because of people like you, that disgusting "Shahan" character, the so-called "Fedayeen," and all the rest of the native Armenian and diasporan self-haters, low-lives and doom sayers, that we are in the shape we are in today - and not because of Turks or Armenia's corrupt leaders. The nature of any given government directly reflects the sociopolitical condition of the overall population. In other words, people deserve the government they have. And before the people begin complaining about their leaders they should first complain about themselves.

This reminds me of all the low-lives in Yerevan that complain about the handful of Artsakhtsis running the political show in Armenia. I say to them: why did you give them the power? And when YOU were in power before them what did you accomplish?

And that moron Shahan thinks diasporans like me go to Armenia to have a good time and buy things... What a big load of crap... I am not one to defend what diasporans do in Armenia but if I, personally, wanted to have a "good time" and "purchase" things I would much rather stay within the United States or go to Greece, Italy, France, Austria, Croatia, Spain, the Bahamas, Puerto Rico, etc. And if I ever wanted a "maid" to serve me and my family there are dozens of Mexicans I can hire for dirt cheep.

I choose to spend my free times in Armenia. I am establishing a home there. And I am planning on moving there in the future. I am doing all this and putting up with the nation's ailments: the non-existent social services; the poor medical care; the polluted air; the dilapidated infrastructure; the rampant corruption; the sever poverty; the disgusting geghatsis in the streets; the broken-up sidewalks; the dangerous streets; the bad sanitation; the rude population; because I see past the current socioeconomic problems we have in the republic and realize that this is one of our unique chances in history to directly participate in our nation building.

I am willing to abandon my life in the States and return to the less-than ideal conditions of my homeland because I don't see a point of preserving an Armenian identity in the diaspora. And a pathetic Bolshevik reject is going to tell me that I'm a "guest" in my Fatherland? Let a Turkified geghatsi Bolshevik say that crap to my face and see what will happen.

In my opinion, the garbage in the streets of Yerevan, both human and material, are transitional - they are here today, gone tomorrow. What remains in the end, however, is the homeland and our national heritage. And I'm concerned about the homeland and the heritage - not the "individual" Armenian with his/her non-ending problems, non-ending complaints and dark forecasts of doom and gloom.

In final analysis: You people can stay wherever you want, do whatever you want. But don't you ever claim that you are doing anything for the betterment of the Armenian Republic and don't think your future off-springs will be Armenians. And don't you even think about complaining about me or people who think like me.

[gmd]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

I'll tell you why this is stupid, gmd. Just read some of the comments written here:

One says that he'll never step foot in the country again because it's corrupt, because he and his family had bad experiences there, because it's this, it's that... And more-or-less claims: What's the point in instilling an Armenian identity in your children if they are going to assimilate anyway.

Another one wants to give us advise about being an "Armenian" although he has married outside of the culture and has not even attempted to visit his birthplace, and more-or-less claims that the country is doomed.

Yet another claims to know what Garegin Nzhteh stood for but says we diasporans are nothing but "guests" in our Republic. Compares diasporan Armenians to European Jooz forcefully colonizing Palestine (thats a xxxxing first, I must say). And goes on to complain about diasporans "employing" natives and "purchasing" property in the country. And looks forward to more-or-less severing the nation's ties with the diaspora...

Yes gmd, this is all f***ing stupid, for these types of backward, ignorant, self-destructive, Bolshevik derived mentalities are what we Armenians don't need today and can do without in the future. And it is because of people like you, that disgusting "Shahan" character, the so-called "Fedayeen," and all the rest of the native Armenian and diasporan self-haters, low-lives and doom sayers, that we are in the shape we are in today - and not because of Turks or Armenia's corrupt leaders. The nature of any given government directly reflects the sociopolitical condition of the overall population. In other words, people deserve the government they have. And before the people begin complaining about their leaders they should first complain about themselves.

This reminds me of all the low-lives in Yerevan that complain about the handful of Artsakhtsis running the political show in Armenia. I say to them: why did you give them the power? And when YOU were in power before them what did you accomplish?

And that moron Shahan thinks diasporans like me go to Armenia to have a good time and buy things... What a big load of crap... I am not one to defend what diasporans do in Armenia but if I, personally, wanted to have a "good time" and "purchase" things I would much rather stay within the United States or go to Greece, Italy, France, Austria, Croatia, Spain, the Bahamas, Puerto Rico, etc. And if I ever wanted a "maid" to serve me and my family there are dozens of Mexicans I can hire for dirt cheep.

I choose to spend my free times in Armenia. I am establishing a home there. And I am planning on moving there in the future. I am doing all this and putting up with the nation's ailments: the non-existent social services; the poor medical care; the polluted air; the dilapidated infrastructure; the rampant corruption; the sever poverty; the disgusting geghatsis in the streets; the broken-up sidewalks; the dangerous streets; the bad sanitation; the rude population; because I see past the current socioeconomic problems we have in the republic and realize that this is one of our unique chances in history to directly participate in our nation building.

I am willing to abandon my life in the States and return to the less-than ideal conditions of my homeland because I don't see a point of preserving an Armenian identity in the diaspora. And a pathetic Bolshevik reject is going to tell me that I'm a "guest" in my Fatherland? Let a Turkified geghatsi Bolshevik say that crap to my face and see what will happen.

In my opinion, the garbage in the streets of Yerevan, both human and material, are transitional - they are here today, gone tomorrow. What remains in the end, however, is the homeland and our national heritage. And I'm concerned about the homeland and the heritage - not the "individual" Armenian with his/her non-ending problems, non-ending complaints and dark forecasts of doom and gloom.

In final analysis: You people can stay wherever you want, do whatever you want. But don't you ever claim that you are doing anything for the betterment of the Armenian Republic and don't think your future off-springs will be Armenians. And don't you even think about complaining about me or people who think like me.

unless i misunderstand, you seem to be saying there is no point in maintaining an Armenian identity in the diaspora. I could not agree more.
if you will be doing as you say then the more power to you. i am sure people like you (regardless of view points) will make Armenia a better place but only from Armenia.
the diaspora is only a cash cow in the short term for Armenia proper. as for myself, i will clarify for you if you care. my ties to Armenia and my identity is through family. i have never belonged to any organizations, Armenian or otherwise. I have family in Armenia, and I have visited them. Before you make judgements on who I married consider that such choices are made on a personal level much like ones faith. my none Armenian wife has given me three children who know who they are. I have seen enough Armenian couples within friends and family who are reluctant to have even one child. don't make snap judgements or overanalyze everything you read. you may not be willing to consider the dissapointment that some people may feel towards Armenia having lived there, so you are able to retain a greater degree of confidence and positive outlook on the matter. i am not so willing to judge. i know despite having been born in Armenia I grew up in the relative saftey and luxury of America. I did not live through the early years of independence and the hardships that our people faced. so i listen to the words of people like Fedayeen and try to understand where he is coming from. I lost one of my cousins in the Artsak struggle and the rest of my cousins have/or are still serving in the Armenian army so I have a legitimate concern for my family's saftey and well being. you keep speaking in abstracts of nationalism and pride. when you settle in Armenia and make a difference then call me stupid and a pessimist.

dzer grvatzkner shat lav koxmer unen. yev dzer grvatzknere indz beretzin es forumee metch. mi mtazek vor viravelov petke haituzune oojexatznek. amen tesak hai e petk for haireneeke oojexana. yete bolores nooin dzevov tesnenk ameninche oorem vontzenk zarganaloo. im kartzikov mer azgayeen toolutzyune galis e mer entaniknere poker en yev mer azgee metch shat kitch martik hargank unene zinvorutzyuni metch.

hargankov,

Garik

[Armenian]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

unless i misunderstand, you seem to be saying there is no point in maintaining an Armenian identity in the diaspora. I could not agree more. the diaspora is only a cash cow in the short term for Armenia proper

Yes, ultimately, the diaspora is doomed.

However, we should attempt to prolong its existence as much as possible because the Armenian Republic greatly benefits from a healthy diaspora.

if you will be doing as you say then the more power to you. i am sure people like you (regardless of view points) will make Armenia a better place but only from Armenia.

You can also have an impact on the nation by simply vacationing there often and instilling an Armenian identity in your children. You never know, armed with an Armenian identity perhaps one day your children will decide to live or work there. However, without an Armenian identity there will be no chance of that occurring. And if you have a few extra dollars go and buy yourself a small apartment in Yerevan. Why not? Your children will grow up knowing they have a home in Armenia as well. You need to create a connection, a line of some sort, to the homeland for your off-spring to use.

Before you make judgements on who I married consider that such choices are made on a personal level much like ones faith. my none Armenian wife has given me three children who know who they are. I have seen enough Armenian couples within friends and family who are reluctant to have even one child. don't make snap judgements or overanalyze everything you read.

Marrying an Armenian is not always the best option, specifically in the diaspora. However, the best chance one as to preserve the heritage in the diaspora is by marrying an Armenian. Simple as that. My best wishes for you and your family. I am the last person here that will lecture anyone regarding the affairs of the heart. They do say that love is blind. I say: Love is deaf, dumb and blind. Nonetheless, I wish you and your family health and happiness. However, I also wish that you would attempt to at least gradually instill an Armenian identity in your off-springs so that they are not totally lost to our already small and vulnerable nation. From what I have seen of your writings here I can only conclude that you are a very intelligent and decent person. It's a shame that you and your family are not a part of our national fabric.

you may not be willing to consider the dissapointment that some people may feel towards Armenia having lived there, so you are able to retain a greater degree of confidence and positive outlook on the matter. i am not so willing to judge. i know despite having been born in Armenia I grew up in the relative saftey and luxury of America. I did not live through the early years of independence and the hardships that our people faced. so i listen to the words of people like Fedayeen and try to understand where he is coming from.

The concept of a fatherland supersedes the emotions of the individual. There are many Armenians from the region that have suffered worst situations than "Fedayeen" but they would never attempted to make some of the comments he has attempted here. This all has to do with the quality of up brining and character of the person in question. As a result, this has nothing to do with how wealthy one is or how much education one has. Sadly, many of our people whether they realize it or not are victims of the decades long indoctrinations of Bolshevism.

I lost one of my cousins in the Artsak struggle and the rest of my cousins have/or are still serving in the Armenian army so I have a legitimate concern for my family's saftey and well being. you keep speaking in abstracts of nationalism and pride. when you settle in Armenia and make a difference then call me stupid and a pessimist.

My comments about nationalism are very tangible they are not abstract at all, unless that is how you want to perceive it. And I will email you from there and call you stupid. How's that?

I never called you stupid, gmd. But yes, you are a pessimist. We can have well intentioned complainers and constructive criticizers - but we can't afford to have defeatists and pessimists.

Simple as that.

Hargankov,

Armenian