Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

[Virgil]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

I rather have mixed Armenians who are patriotic than full Armenians who are self-hating...

Armenian, I would rather not have either one in our communities. Like I said, quality is far greater then quantity. I don't want someone like Aznavour that throws millions of dollars towards Armenia, but on the base level represents the evils of assimilation and essentially, is a poster child for adapting.

Furthermore, how can you honestly accept somone like Lamb Boy? He is a wigger, how much of a more blunt example of cultural pollution can there be? How much more reason do you want for maintaining a strong Armenian family?

[Armenian]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

Armenian, I would rather not have either one in our communities. Like I said, quality is far greater then quantity...

Well, like it or not, we are going to have both and it's going to get worst with time. No amount of yelling, threatening and/or fighting is going to change the inevitable. So, deal with it. We will have our full blooded self-hating "Ara Baliozian" types, and we are going to have mixed Armenians. Full blooded Armenian patriots/nationalists will become an endangered species within the diaspora, our numbers are already quite small. However, real Armenian patriots belong in Armenia - not in the diaspora. Yelling about Armenian nationalism/patriotism from the diaspora rings very hollow to the ear. Since we have so few patriotic/nationalist Armenians in the diaspora we simply can't afford to turn away any Armenian who expresses commitment to the Armenian nation regardless of their lineage. Besides, no one can blame "mixed" Armenians for being mixed. Again, it's the parents...

Nonetheless, take a look again at these Armenian Volunteer Corp youth. Perhaps a large percentage of them are of mixed backgrounds.

Birth Right Armenia: http://www.birthrightarmenia.org/

These young men and women are leaving their pampered suburban lives and 'volunteering' their personal time and professions in Armenia.These young Armenians - of various backgrounds - are discovering and enforcing their identities, they are learning their language, they are learning about their cultural heritage, they are falling in love, they are creating networks... In short, they are making a difference. How dare anyone of us here say to any mixed Armenian that is volunteering in this manner that they are not a good "Armenian" just because one of their parents chose to make a non-Armenian decision...

Take a close look at all the full blooded waste of lives in the streets of Los Angeles. I much rather befriend a patriotic Armenian from a mixed background.

[Virgil]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

Well, like it or not, we are going to have both and it's going to get worst with time. No amount of yelling, threatening and/or fighting is going to change the inevitable. So, deal with it. We will have our full blooded self-hating "Ara Baliozian" types, and we are going to have mixed Armenians. Full blooded Armenian patriots/nationalists will become an endangered species within the diaspora, our numbers are already quite small. However, real Armenian patriots belong in Armenia - not in the diaspora. Yelling about Armenian nationalism/patriotism from the diaspora rings very hollow to the ear. Since we have so few patriotic/nationalist Armenians in the diaspora we simply can't afford to turn away any Armenian who expresses commitment to the Armenian nation regardless of their lineage. Besides, no one can blame "mixed" Armenians for being mixed. Again, it's the parents...

Nonetheless, take a look again at these Armenian Volunteer Corp youth. Perhaps a large percentage of them are of mixed backgrounds.

Birth Right Armenia: http://www.birthrightarmenia.org/

These young men and women are leaving their pampered suburban lives and 'volunteering' their personal time and professions in Armenia.These young Armenians - of various backgrounds - are discovering and enforcing their identities, they are learning their language, they are learning about their cultural heritage, they are falling in love, they are creating networks... In short, they are making a difference. How dare anyone of us here say to any mixed Armenian that is volunteering in this manner that they are not a good "Armenian" just because one of their parents chose to make a non-Armenian decision...

Take a close look at all the full blooded waste of lives in the streets of Los Angeles. I much rather befriend a patriotic Armenian from a mixed background.

First, you overstating their mixed backgrounds, judging from the pictures probably maybe one or two individuals are halfies. And these halfies know how to read and write Armenian, are not wigger clones, and are white, probably Armenian Apostolic. And I don't like to justify mistakes by using the the argument that "the end justifies the means", the reality is this, if you choose to accept it or not, if you let yourself opt for trash you will get just that, trash. Now we are not opting for our own trash, we are opting for otar azgi trash. This idea of "opting" and or "adapting" should be removed from the minds of Armenian nationalists. My ancestors could have opted to "mix", but they choose not and I would rather accept the Armenian trash of Los Angeles versus any halfie that is only a immitation of the real thing. The argument individuals use is one that only accepts them out of desperation instead of fixing the problem. The idea that I have to go screw my people over in order to finally realize that screwing my people over was a mistake is just ridiculous, how about we don't screw anyone over and we stick to protecting our forts.

Armenian its not about me "liking it or not", I am just stating facts, if you were to go reread what I posted, my viewpoint is again against this kind of disgusting behavior. I don't want Armenians to volunteer, do you understand, the very act of "volunteering" creates in itself a justification for assimilation and adaptation? You need to clearly understand my point of view, I don't want Armenians to send money, I don't want them to "volunteer", and certainly, I don't want to have telethons and ridiculous nonsense like that because all these amount to is turning being Armenian into a state of mind. I want Armenians to face the reality of their status que in the world and try to solve it via hard work.

You have valid points, but if you were to truly understand the ideology I want Armenians to adopt, you will see that by adopting it not only do you strenghten yourself, but also you put a value on your fellow Armenian. Understand, it is this loss of value that has lead to degeneration of mankind. If you can not learn to love who you are, you certainly, are not motivated to love your personal values. A true Armenian nationalist is not one that goes marries en spitak, kananch, sev, yev khaputa, it is one that is content on being Armenian that he or she wants to maintain the Armenian identity at all cost.

Sorry, but again, hell will freeze over before I accept a halfie. And maybe I do accept them, maybe I do, but to say "I do accept them" creates in itself a weakness in people, it creates the "idea" that it can be "accepted". The danger is not accepting one or two of these individuals, the danger is accepting the "idea" that it is "ok". And how do you "accept the idea" by slowly defending these actions under the banner of "the end justifies the means". No, the "end does not justify the means", sorry, take this with due respect to you and your opinions, I just don't buy that argument.

[Armenian]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

First, you overstating their mixed backgrounds, judging from the pictures probably maybe one or two individuals are halfies...

I know the organization in question quite well. I see and hear about the Armenians that apply for volunteer work. Many, not most, many, perhaps 1/3 or 1/4 are of mixed heritage. I can give you a more accurate picture by making one call if you are interested. Anyway, I ask you to reconsider what I wrote.

[Virgil]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

I know the organization in question quite well. I see and hear about the Armenians that apply for volunteer work. Many, not most, many, perhaps 1/3 or 1/4 are of mixed heritage. I can give you a more accurate picture by making one call if you are interested. Anyway, I ask you to reconsider what I wrote.

Nah, its cool, no need. Just thought you were assuming your numbers based on pictures.

[jgk3]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

I am 1/8 swiss. My grandfather was half swiss, half Armenian, so I guess he wasn't Armenian.

He was pretty much a turkified Armenian living in Istanbul who didn't speak Armenian, and his family were francophiles, answering, "We aren't Armenian, we are Catholic" when asked if they were Armenians.

He married my full Armenian grandmother who was very active in the Bolsahyemiutiun and she taught my grandfather Armenian. She raised my father to speak Armenian fluently, and my father married my full Armenian mom. And here I am today.

Presently, my family is more or less culturally assmilated, but because of the marriages they made, they "bought back" the Armenian blood in our lineage. Yet they don't give a damn about Armenia, although my father contributes financially to our distant cousins living there.

I believe that I am not the only Armenian that is 1/8 or 1/16 of something else. I have a hunch that there must be numerous incidences of Armenians in our history who married Christian odars if they were present in their regions. Key word, incidences.

In any case, I'm not very concerned with having 1/8 ancestry of something else... I have to say... It is undetectable. I'd be more concerned with the attitude I have.

So what counts for more? Your DNA? Your phenotype? Or your attitude? I think pro-Armenian attitude in itself is a decent indicator that you feel comfortable with your Armenian lineage and appearance. I wonder how many would disagree?

[Virgil]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

So what counts for more? Your DNA? Your phenotype? Or your attitude? I think pro-Armenian attitude in itself is a decent indicator that you feel comfortable with your Armenian lineage and appearance. I wonder how many would disagree?

Jgk3, there exists no doubt in my mind that you are Armenian, in fact, the idea that half Armenians are not Armenian is not the idea I want embraced, who am I to dictate the "Armenianness" of a individual? Like I mentioned earlier, I certainly do resent individuals that are fundimentally corrupted by non-Armenain ways, I resent these individuals, however, any individual that is at least half Armenian by blood and meets the racial, religious, and ethnic criteria of the Armenian people can certainly choose their own destiny. It is the idea that "mixed marriages should not be tolerated" that should be embraced and bolstered. And again, understand my point of view, understand it very clearly, and certainly, adopt it.

Let me rehash it with a analogy, let use assume we have a wall, what good does it do to engineer a wall made of mud when you build one out of stone? It is no good at all, if you are going to build a wall, build one out of stone, yes, insects and miniscule critters will crawl through the cracks of any foundation, mud or stone, but for the most part, pink elephants can never ram through stone, they can certainly xxxxxle over mud, but never stone. Likwise, to assume that it is "ok" or "tolerable" to accept "mixes" lowers ones standards when making decisions. Initially, if you were opposed to a decision because you were afraid of the consequences, now, there exists no consequence and what used to be a "life and death" decision has been reduced to a marginal note in the back of your mind. When standards are reduced so is the value given to a that respective object, men and women fight over resources because they see value in its possession.

Again, nationalism and success of a people rests of the will and spirit of each individual. And understand, it is fundimentally because of this reason we must make sure our spirits are always motivated to be positive, progressing as a people or else embracing demagogs will demotivates us and our will to improve ourselves and our people will be destroyed.

There exist no Ahmadinejad in my argument, meaning, I am not a naive person that is dillusional, ofcourse there exists misguided individuals. Some friendly advice, never in your life assume the face value to any argument and ideology, always look at the point of view and why the person is motivated to reveal to you his or her beliefs, the hidden agenda always reveals itself when a critical mind is put to use. There always exists something beneath the superficial front. My argument hinges on the fact that you must put up the strong front to make sure that even if statistically assimilation and adaptation does occurs, it occurs on a miniscule level. People are animals, they are easily herded and dominated by constant streams of images and opinions that attack social norms of our ancestors and therefore, it is up to the educated among our populations to make sure they, the everyman and everywomen, does not foolishly adopt ideologies that are fundimentally wrong for the Armenian people and state. Education should never be used to dominate another individual, it should be used to guide them, never used as a form of a control, rather, the educated man has to humble and it is through his or her humble nature that the everyman and everywomen is benefited, essentially, pushing forward society.

And with regard to the Armenian male and female dynamics, understand, every action in life conducted in the name of the individual eventually reflects on the collective unit. This idea that the individual is affected by the collective is a lie, the truth is that it is the sum of individuals which affects the collective and shapes its destiny. Men and women are primative, the most educated among us always succombs to emotional cravings, therefore, it is important to act and protect primative ways of life. Lets stop playing cat and mouse, lets get to the point in layman's terms, if you as a man see no value in your women (And vice versa), if this is replaced with degenerate behavior and understand I am not naive, degenerate behavior existed ever since the dawn of "mankind" (Feministas, please, don't have a heartattack, "mankind" is in quotes!), again, if this is replaced then the intrinsic drive of a people is also hijacked, understand, everything we do as a individual is connected and we must learn to "pass it forward", where "it" is our Armenian values and beliefs, once, each and every Armenian and human being understands this idea of "passing it forward" then the world will be a better place for everyone. Armenians will begin to value and appreicate one another, taking this on the macro level, the Armenian state will improve and eventually, it will become a productive state that will better the future of humanity, I will stop here, good night.

[jgk3]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

alright, thanks. yes, the analogy of the wall is essentially what I imagined of your ideology before you posted this, I'm glad I was able to read this and know I was right. In any case, those walls are the only thing Armenia has that keeps it Armenia. I don't really see how one can object to that.

[Lamb Boy]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

First and foremost I would like to personally apologize to everybody here for the hate I posted yesterday on this thread. Regardless of what everyone here feels about how I was raised I certainly was not brought up to behave in the disrespectful manner I chose to display yesterday when I lost my temper.

If I get banned then I get banned but please understand that I am truly sorry for what I wrote and hope you all won't hold it against me.

For the record I am genetically 50% Armenian and both a quarter English and Irish percentages. Culturally I am 100% American although no one considers being an American an ethnic or cultural identity.

lucin I appreciate your candor on this thread and wish I had articulated myself in a light more like your own. To be honest I do have identity issues because being American isn't a cultural identity unto itself and I can't call myself Armenian so I am really left with nothing. Not a great feeling ...

Armenian I never have felt that having the ability to call myself Armenian was a fashionable statement ... I just wanted to reconnect with my cultural heritage which got lost in the previous generation. Sorry if I seemed so surface.

The reason why I am apologizing to be honest is because I don't want to disrespect the memory of my grandparents who I feel compelled to honor in any way I can. They never forced my dad or uncle to be super Armenian but at the same time now that I am older, and can look back in retrospect, I know they were less than happy that my sister and I were even further from Armenian culture than their own children. They got to witness the assimilation over several generations and realized that there was nothing they could do about it due to extraneous circumstances out of their control.

The little I know about Armenian culture (it maybe more than you think!) came about through them. I was always pestering them about Armenian stuff from a very early age and I think of all the times we spent together in Queens during those years had a major impact on me. I listened when my Nana refused to believe or acknowledge the ewish holocaust (lol ... makes me laugh now when I think of how heated I get sometimes and I remind myself of her ... she was "firey" !!)

... Ahhhh I'm rambling and giving ya'll a serious overdose of personal info lmao @ myself! So enough "justification" ... please know that I wrote this on my own accord and NOT because anyone asked me to. I am capable of admitting when I am wrong.

One last thing ... my dad did manage to videotape and record the events that led to my grandparents moving to America ... each individually. They met and married in NYNY. Also my step mom who is Scandinavian documented their stories and put them into a text document because after getting a taste of Armenian culture, like most (what is it otar odar) outsiders she fell instantly in love and realized how unique and special Armenian people and culture are. This is much the same way my good friend Danny Soder went to Armenia to take pictures of the oldest orthodox churches in the world and then totally fell in love with Armenia, Armenians and our deep culturally and artistically rich history.

My point being that you all more than I are a very special people that the world really wants to learn more about and understand better, but I am afraid if you isolate yourselves too much that no one will ever get a chance to find out. Perhaps outsiders are as interested or more interested in preserving Armenian culture than some Armenians are … I know that to be true.

Well anyway I hope you all have a safe New Years Eve … don’t drink too much and call a taxi if you know you can’t drive!

[jgk3]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

thanks, and welcome back. I don't know about the others, but I've made many scenes of drama in the past myself, and I've been grateful to be taken back into the communities I embarrassed myself in

You know, if you want to learn about Armenian culture, you can ask us questions and we can try to answer them.

I personally rely on internet somewhat to learn about my culture too, because my family just doesn't know about a lot of our history! It's one of the wonderful things about the internet and I encourage you take make use of it, and feel free to share your experiences or that of your grandparents and parents.

This is, above all, a place for discussion.

Oh, and I'll add that perhaps you should look into learning about your non-Armenian cultural background too, I think this will help you too in your identity issues. At the least, you'll be able to communicate about relevant issues and interests shared by their respective communities, and in that way, you will be able to contribute as well.

Virgil's analogy of the wall is real for national issues, but we are also all human beings and walls don't change that. Human beings have the potential to do great things for each other and for themselves, and so long as our motivation is positive, then I think we will be on the right track.