Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

[Virgil]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

So you agree with the initial question that we Armenians are on the verge of extinction here and in homeland.

We have no body to blame but ourself, us...people.

If it continues this way i doubt Armenia will be on world map in 100 years. Its up to us to do something. Instead of pointing out each others differences.


Tomorrow you gonna go back to Armenia, but thats not enough.

Fedayeen, lav lesse, yetta uzumes hyeastana lav yerkir elni petka du "dram" goghanac otar yerkirnaritz, estan usumen "neo-imperialism". However, there has to be the emphasis of the diaspora to return home and once this emphasis is there, people are more willing to make the "pro-Armenian" choice. Now, you may as why this is important and for the nth time I will repeat myself, when you take away individaul value in yourself it is a race to bottom, it demotivates anyone to think about state because on the fundimental level, you don't think about yourself as a Armenian and how important it is to be Armenian. Yetta, everyone had this ideology engrained in their heads maybe we would treat each other better and not to overemphasis the negative, for the most part we are "el lav" then most people in these regards, however, again, go back to my context, state in shambles, diaspora out numbering natives of Armenia, two front cold war, emigration, and ...you get the picture.

[Armenian]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

Comparatively speaking, we Armenians are one of the most 'united' people on earth, even more so than the Jews in my opinion.

[Virgil]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

Are you joking? Did you read this thread? If this is what you call being "united" then you should seriously brush up on your definition of "unity". The xxxish ppl are waaay more united even when they are not in their homeland. The real reason why Armenia is doomed is because of ultra nationalistic moronic Armenians that would rather push other Armenians and the diaspora away rather than embrace and include them into the community. You all hate on each other so much that Fed had to create 4 CLASSES of Armenians just to "help out" everyone in discovering who the real Armenians are ... Oooooo ... way to be useful Fez.

Understand, the reality is that Armenia needs quality over quantity and furthermore, the Armenian Diaspora is already dead because of men and women like your mother or father that opted to open their legs and home to a Non-Armenians. The reality is that you consider yourself Non-Armenian and you have dual loyalties, dual identity, and a dual lifestyle.

And Armenian was just talking about the degenerate nature of the Diaspora, you see, it is at this point that I can even begin to tell you how wrong your views are and opposed to the Armenian way of life. Your Armenian ancestors fought so they can have these very rights your parent pissed away. If I were to take you to Armenia, other then the fact that you have a money, the people would not really connect with you. Only a true Armenian would understand where Armenian is coming from, you being raised in this multicultural, multiracial, and godless existience in which identities are peddled on the street corner or the local mall, can never relate with me. a full Armenian by blood and identity. The sad thing is you probably can not even relate with a person of purely Greek extraction, this is in essence why people like me are fighting the good fight, but again, at the base you don't know what the hell I am talking about, I can not describe the color blue to you if you have never seen it. How can I tell why I dislike you when in fact you are alien to the values of the Armenian people? Its a fruitless effort, you just bring cultural trash into our communities, we don't want wiggers and xxxxxs, we want Armenian men and women.

Me for instance, I came here looking to bond with people from my ethnic background. I created a thread asking how I could get more involved in the Armenian community, which NO ONE HERE EVER RESPONDED TO!! Speaks volumes right there ... I also invited the whole forum out to a show where I was performing and all I got in return was a bunch of racist rhetoric from mental midgets. Turntablism is something that I was years into before I EVER came here so to bully me about a trait I developed before meeting you all is ridiculous. No one here ever made an effort to make me or anyone else in the diaspora feel welcome here and for that you should all feel ashamed.

xxxx you, I am not ashamed of anything nor should anyone else be ashamed of having preferences and sticking to them, I uphold my values and I will always uphold my values, furthermore, I would rather have one true Armenian versus having hundred wigger wannabes. At the core you already a handjob of Non-Armenian influences and, now, you want the community to accept you and teach you "how to be Armenian"? What kind of ridiculous nonsense is this? You don't teach another person how to be Armenian, a identity is constructed from your life experiences and life lesson you inharit from your Armenian mother, Armenian father, Armenian family, and Armenian friends.

You should go cry and whine to your parents that opted to raise you as a multicultural child, if you hold any resent it should be towards them not I, and certainly, not the Armenian community. People like me (Armenian and Non-Armenian alike) look at this identity peddling and cringe, I will never ever put a child through this cultural sludge, I have decided to make the right the decision and certainly, I will not make the mistake of marrying out and then expect a entire community accept my half Armenian child as a Armenian. If your parents have a "right" to marry out, certainly, individuals like me have a right to not marry out and absolutly the both actions are not equal, this is the reality. You are essentially trying to imply that I, as a full Armenian, have some responsiblity to you when I don't.

The reality is you are who you are, I am who I am, and we are who we are, there exists no entity at fault other then your parents. This is the reality you should accept, which is essentially that you can not ask a individual to "teach you" what he or she can not. I did not "opt" to be Armenian, it is something that was passed onto me. Identity construction starts at home, it starts at the basic level (i.e. eating Armenian food, speaking Armenian on a daily basis, bolstering interest in Armenia, and etc ...) and builds up to shape a identity.

And of those degenerate, half ass, half witted, and short sighted Armenians that treat being Armenian as a "religion" or some kind of "ism" or "classroom lesson" should think clearly and thoroughly on what exactly they are implying. Essentially, you are reducing our long history and sacrifices into nothing, taking what brave and proud Armenian men and women fought long and hard for to preserve and turning into a pickled jar. As mentioned earlier, taken to the infinite power, it will destroy and has destroyed the Armenian Diaspora. The reality is that fragmenting your communities will lead to further marginalization and assimilation, individuals that claim otherwise are just stupid, naive, and selfish, their mongralized and identity deprived child has noone to blame but his or her selfish parents.

What my incentive? To bring a half Armenian and half what ever else reject into my community in order for him or her to also bring with them foreign values and influences? Hell no, you as a wigger and "hip hop artist", what ever, "street culture", are a walking example of why marrying out should not be embraced. You reek with Non-Armenain elements, elements I don't want in my community.

YOU ALL ARE THE REASON I WILL NEVER CONSIDER MYSELF ARMENIAN EVER AGAIN!! Be proud of yourselves as your brilliant strategy is being played out before your blind eyes. Because of the way I have been treated here I will never talk to or befriend an Armenian, attempt to learn the language, ever make the food again, tell others about the genocide, and will certainly never date or marry an Armenian woman. You all have put such a bad taste in my mouth that I wish you all the worst. This is how you all want it, not I.

Exactly, a win for the Armenian community, take your trash to the Greek community. Listen jackass, you are essentially validating my argument and you were never Armenian in the first place nor were you Greek, you are a hybrid person, with dual identities, who at some point in your life, looked around, saw that joe black rapper has his own identity and wanted to find your identity, but the reality is that your identity was lost, cut at the root when your dad impregnated your mom, I don't know else to put it, its a fact of life, live with it.

The reality is that I should not be to blame for lack of motivation to learn your language or anything related to being Armenian, again, this goes back to my earlier point, you just view your identity as a picked jar, a novelty item you can enjoy at your own discretion, I, on the other hand, view my identity as a way of life, I live and breath it on a daily basis. That latter can not be "taught" nor is it something I can "teach you" and certainly, it is not something I can "deem" you to possess. By me validating you as a Armenian it does not change the fact that you are only half Armenian.

So instead of gaining a halfie-Armenian (go f* yourself Tom) who would have totally embraced Armenian culture for the better you pushed me so far away that I'm never coming back. I was trying to integrate myself into the Armenian community but it seems it serves Armenia and Armenians more to push me away. This is why the xxxish culture is a million times more unified than your own because they embrace each other no matter where they live and what generation they are. You morons ostracize EVERYONE including ppl that live RIGHT NEXT TO ARMENIA AND ARE ARMENIAN!! Seriously this forum is filled to the brim with some of the most ignorant, racist, armchair philosophers I have ever come across. I mean is that a Clydesdale horse you are all rode in on?? Did you pick the tallest one to maximize your high horse syndrome??

xxxx you, Turks are the most racist and ignorant people in the world, you are just so stupid that you look at the outer surfaces. If your ideas of "Turks being more 'unfyed'" then you jackass, why were "Turkish Christians" deemed enemies of the state? Why do Turks always try their best to appear white? Go to white supremicist websites, most of the posters are Turks. They try to paint the picture that Armenians are Non-White in order to have a high horse to ride on based on the premise that they were justified in commiting genocide.

Every Non-Armenain friend that I have, including the ones that are some kind of Non-Armenian mix agree with me, they are a handjobs of multiculturalism. They lack any identity becuase their families do not constitute a full a ethnic family, they lack important parts of the identity.

Again, unifying for the sake of unifying is a lost cause that people like you use a crux to push forward your argument. The reality is asswipe that when a people choose to fragment themselves under religious, ethnic, and racial differences the idea of "unifying" goes out the window.

Finally, I don't care if I "ostercize" you, the reality is the reality, I can only tolerate some half Armenians, I respect them as people, but they are who they are, they are only half Armenian, they can not even speak Armenian correctly and lack any sort of patriotism because at the core their loyalty is split.

And I should not feel responsible for lack of your identity nor should you put your lack of having a identity on the backs of other forum members. The reality is that you can't speak Armenian and have no idea what it means to be Armenian because you are not Armenian, end of story, get that through your thick skull. You are a walking example of why multicultural familes will fail, I have no obligating to accept you as a Armenian, furthermore, I certainly will never accept a wigger because, to be frank, I dislike wiggers and the culture they represent. Essentially, its not even the fact that you are half Armenian that I must accept, it is a package deal. A deal that only benefits you.

I'm even considering changing my last name so I won't have to deal with you ppl in random encounters when ppl read my last name off of this or that and assume I am one of you. Thank God I am not! By changing my last name you all will also not be able to look at my name on the several credits I have and assume I am Armenian . NO ARMENIAN IS GOING TO READ MY NAME IN CREDITS AND ASSUME I AM ARMENIAN!! F* that.

Don't let me stop you! By all means, please change your last name, down the line your decendents will then have no excuse to come back to our community asking for some cultural handout because they were deprived of a identity.

Your assuming to many things, first reach the mountain and then turn around and glout in your success. The reality is that I don't consider Micheal Vartan (xxxish), Nalbandian (quarter Armenian), or Kasparov (xxxish) Armenian, so what makes you think I give a xxxx what some halfass wigger thinks? I don't even like Charles Aznavour because his a degenerate jackass that escaped to France only to have muslim grandchildren.

Oh and if I am a "wigger" then you are all the original version of the word. Worthless, useless, ineffectual, and purposeless. In my mind that word is colorless so please feel free to address it to yourselves. All you have in your tiny little pathetic world is bickering about the same crap issues day-in-and-day-out ... like all the words in this forum will ever make a difference. Oh it does actually ... it makes a difference in the fact that no one comes here and posts because the ultra nationalistic dorks here push everyone away who isn't an extremist for Armenia.

xxxx you, no one is a ultra-nationalistic, you probably are to stupid to even realize that you, as a American, live and breath in a nationalistic state. Anyone that holds anysort of citizen is a nationalist, anyone that raises a anysort of flag is a nationalist, and certainly, anyone that opts to live in one state over another is a nationalist. And if we "represent" the "true meaning" of what constitutes a "wigger" then you represent the true meaning of assimilation.

Again, I could careless what anyone of your caliber thinks about Armenians, your parent was a self hating individual to not have enough love in himself for his fellow people. Yes, being part of a people means that you love them so much that this love for yourself motivates you to maintain your identity at all costs, anything else or using the crux of "I tried" evolves into a excuse. The reality is this, individuals will either accept that fact that the only way to raise a child as a Armenian is by marrying a Armenian or they will be confronted with children like Lamb Boy that have no tie to their people and are identity deprived. Love is not blind, people have a choice, you succomb to your pleasures and selfish behavior, you have to face the consequence, it is not up to me nor anyone else to come and teach you about what it means to be Armenian, you either know from birth or you don't, end of story.

Lamb Boy, thank you for validating my original premise.

[Virgil]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

So this forum is like a giant black hole for Armenia and Armenians as the only thing you all do is invite ppl here just to suck them up into your event horizon and crush them at your singularity. It's like "Welcome open your mouth so I can crap in it." Soon the only ppl left here will be the ones that are already agreeable with all the uber nationalistic rhetoric. In which case you aren't spreading your personal gospel about the Armenian condition more than you are just preaching to the choir. "Speeches only reach those who already know about it" ... seriously.

xxxx you, you and your ways are a "giant black hole" for Armenians and Armenia. I would rather have one good Armenian as opposed to a hundred degenerate half Armenians such as yourself. The reality is that Armenians lack in nationalism has lead them to this pitiful state, you have historically a set group of intellectuals and industrialist that sit around on their highhorse talking about the "greatness" of the Armenian people, but on a daily basis are second class citizens in foreign states. If Armenians want a functional state they have to put their asses to work, no amount of foreign support and foreign aid will turn around a country, only the will of the people can shape the future of a nation. The will of the people does not include being a wigger, a punk, and God knows what other circus animal, but speaking Armenian only for the sake of novelty. It is mutually exclusive to immigrating, emigrating, assimilating, and certainly, adapting (In the process, asking everyone to change 3,000 year old history so these mistakes can be more "socially prudent"). The will people means exactly this (The Germans and Japanese know exactly what this means), the will of the people in shaping a state means the people will take anything thrown at them and make the best of it for the future of the state. Economic depression, war, and famine, it does not matter, they stay where they are and opt to live under the worst conditions for the future of their state.

THIS IS REALITY ... and I'm out for good so you can save your responses for someone who actually cares.

Good riddence, trust me, no one cares, if Armenians cared enough about themselves we wouldn't have to deal with individuals like you and we would all be Armenia instead of infesting foreign pockets as second class citizens. I just want to make sure people don't buy into your little emotional rant, it is good to have emotions, but sometimes it is far more better to think logically, in this case, logic is a better indication of the truth opposed to emotions.

The reality is that there are forum members that are half Armenians, the reality is that I know who they are, and I don't attack them. And they themselves accept my views because they know I am right and because they themselves feel identity deprived, they are showing a honest effort to be Armenian. I respect those individuals (i.e. Karothegreat) and those men and women I respect, those are the half Armenians I tolerate and will accept. If you are already a halfie and are making a decent push to be Armenian (i.e. double the effort of a full Armenian), I respect you. It is only when you come to these boards and try to validate your parents mistakes and don't drop your other half.

And you have to understand my stance, the reality is that if you deficate in jar and pass it on, chances are, at some point, the contents becomes so vile that no individual will ever strive to "pass it on". Furthermore, if you are that professor that has a choice, to give a letter grade or to make sure the student earns it, obviously, the latter option is the ethical way to proceed. Telling a failing student you will pass him or her only demotivates the said student to try his or her best. And finally, when taking away a objects value, men and women, fail to see value in that object, when individuals fail to see a value in a object they will, eventually, get rid of it.

[Armenian]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

YOU ALL ARE THE REASON I WILL NEVER CONSIDER MYSELF ARMENIAN EVER AGAIN!!

Stop whining, stop crying, you are sounding like a ten year old that got his lollipop thrown in the garbage bin. To tell you the truth, Armenians like you make me ashamed to being an Armenian some times. If your 'Armenianness' is this conditional, this shallow, then please, by all means, do us all a favor and consider yourself whatever the phuck you want...

[Virgil]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

"Condition"? What kind of "condition" makes anyone open their legs to another ethnic, racial, and religious group? Their parents themselves were self-hating to begin with. I have spoken with them, I have family and friends that committed such idoicy, each and every time, after the kid hits pubirty they started infushing onto him and/or her the Armenian identity. The kid becomes a hand job of the respective parent that is Armenian because that individual fears the consequences of his or her actions. xxxxers, yetta etkhan vestaek zhar vorshonknarov, why not force the other half onto the child? What kind of sick and twisted person goes and marries a individual that is Non-Armenian and then forces a Armenian identity on the child? A very twisted and idiotic individual, you are putting your children through torture and hell.

Armenian, you are giving individuals like this too much credit, they are lost from birth. All they ever amount to and do correctly is speak Armenian and being Christian, the latter amounts to being "Christian", not Armenian, so, even if they try their best they still fail. I don't care about quantity, I care about quality. I don't want "xxxish Armenians", "Muslim Armenians", "Asian Armenians", "Black Armenians" and what ever kind of mongral mix you can think of, I want Armenians, i.e. white, chistian (Part of Armenian Apostolic Church), and Armenian by blood. If you can't meet these points then move on with your life because you are not Armenian. Saying you are Armenian and being "Greek Orthodox" is a oxymoron, likewise, being black in a room full of white Armenians and then claiming that this kind of behavior "will not fragment your people" makes you look like a hypocrit. The reality is that if you want to pass over something, you have to be willing to "pass over something" or else any of these half ass ideas of Armenian by book or spirit just leads Armenians towards extinction at a much faster rate.

The reality is this, if anyone wants to choose to accept or not, I don't give a xxxx anymore, it does not make a difference, today or tomorrow, ever, history will be written the way history will be written, again, the reality is this, Armenians have a culture, but it is mixed with various cultures that subdued our ancestors. Essentially, it is a culture based on synchromism, the Non-Armenian and Armenian elements are mixed together. What does this mean? Absolutly nothing except that we as Armenians must work harder to stop foreign influences on our people, communities, and state, any other compromise amounts to our lose of our true culture and heritiage. Everytime you bring half ass individuals into the community with foreign values you just polute yourselves even futher, its a self inflicted poison.

Furthermore, the idea that "religion" and "race" are not important again goes back to my original argument, race is a identity and certainly, religion is a identity. I resent Christianity as a religion (Why? It is a recycling of ancient Armenian and Near-Eastern religions, there exists nothing that original, we essentially traded the authentic source for a fraud religion), but it is our religion and we must accept it, understand this very carefully, if we turn our back on Christianity, we turn our back on our history and our lands. And any "Jack Nahapetian" or "Ara Baliozian", whatever, any Armenian that speaks otherwise is a good dam lier and idiot. Any human being that viciously supports the idea of nillism (i.e. no race, religion, and identity) is also a idiot, the truth is many individuals that turned their back on these elements that form the backbone of a human being have found themselves again "infushing" their children with some sort of value system, regardless of what values they are, in the end they are "values" that like it or not, will eventually form a new identity. You can not get around this fact, just face the truth and move the xxxx onward. I am sick of these "sophisticated" arguments that lack any sort of common sense.

I don't care about being "liberal" nor do I care about being "conservative", these are flawed systems of beliefs, I embrace my values that are passed onto me, I uphold defined terms like justice, honor, and integrity (Not limited to these). None this of sophisticated arguments of being "liberal" or "conservative", whatever, they don't hold any meaning to me, they are political terms to seperate the individual into two camps. Any rational individual will see why it is necessary in some instances for a organized third party to get involved, while conversely, it third parties sometimes become a intrusion. I don't want "sophisticated" individuals, I don't want "doctors", "lawyers", and certainly, I could careless about lying politicians that are only looking for sheeple to sell their vote to, I want Armenians that want and will move back to Armenia, anything else is a waste of time. Again, we were kings of fiefdoms under various states (i.e. Ottoman Turkey, Shah's Iran, and Ramonov and Soviet Russia) what did amount to? Do you honest thinkg by subduing the "American people" you can effectively form a functional state? Is this the garbage all these "Armenian-American Organizations" are actually spreading? Lets get something straight, all these efforst will amount to a horses ass, get this through thick skulls. If you want something done you have to do it yourself, you have to eat xxxx for a generation or two, the question then becomes who is going to eat xxxx? Me, you, and anyone that has a remote inkling to better the status que or else putting your hopes and dreams on a bunch of Europeans or Americans that have historically been a great, but not for others, only for themselves and their interest, is just shear stupidity, it makes no sense, it will never make sense. This latter point is the zero sum point of the "Rights to Stuggle", if you haven't picked it up, I would go to a Armenian bookstore and pick it as soon as possible.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

Are you joking? Did you read this thread? If this is what you call being "united" then you should seriously brush up on your definition of "unity". The xxxish ppl are waaay more united even when they are not in their homeland. The real reason why Armenia is doomed is because of ultra nationalistic moronic Armenians that would rather push other Armenians and the diaspora away rather than embrace and include them into the community. You all hate on each other so much that Fed had to create 4 CLASSES of Armenians just to "help out" everyone in discovering who the real Armenians are ... Oooooo ... way to be useful Fez.

The real reason why Armenia is doomed beacuse there are xxxxers like you destroying our culture, and xxxx the xxxs we are Armenians stoping comparing us to other people. And evrey one in the diaspora who constiders himslef Armenian and valuas the Armenian culture should move to Armenia as soon as they can.

Me for instance, I came here looking to bond with people from my ethnic background. I created a thread asking how I could get more involved in the Armenian community, which NO ONE HERE EVER RESPONDED TO!! Speaks volumes right there ... I also invited the whole forum out to a show where I was performing and all I got in return was a bunch of racist rhetoric from mental midgets. Turntablism is something that I was years into before I EVER came here so to bully me about a trait I developed before meeting you all is ridiculous. No one here ever made an effort to make me or anyone else in the diaspora feel welcome here and for that you should all feel ashamed.

Why should we come to watch your show, many of us live all over the world not in LA, I live in Europe. Why should we make you feel welcome, you should earn that by showing us that you can be an Armenian.

YOU ALL ARE THE REASON I WILL NEVER CONSIDER MYSELF ARMENIAN EVER AGAIN!! Be proud of yourselves as your brilliant strategy is being played out before your blind eyes. Because of the way I have been treated here I will never talk to or befriend an Armenian, attempt to learn the language, ever make the food again, tell others about the genocide, and will certainly never date or marry an Armenian woman. You all have put such a bad taste in my mouth that I wish you all the worst. This is how you all want it, not I.

I say good and don't come back, what do you expect us to do teach you the language that is the job your parents had to do when you were a child. And it's good you never will date an Armenian because you don't even deserve an Armenian girl.

So instead of gaining a halfie-Armenian (go f* yourself Tom) who would have totally embraced Armenian culture for the better you pushed me so far away that I'm never coming back. I was trying to integrate myself into the Armenian community but it seems it serves Armenia and Armenians more to push me away. This is why the xxxish culture is a million times more unified than your own because they embrace each other no matter where they live and what generation they are. You morons ostracize EVERYONE including ppl that live RIGHT NEXT TO ARMENIA AND ARE ARMENIAN!! Seriously this forum is filled to the brim with some of the most ignorant, racist, armchair philosophers I have ever come across. I mean is that a Clydesdale horse you are all rode in on?? Did you pick the tallest one to maximize your high horse syndrome??

I for one don't care if you are half Armenian of Armenian, it's youre behavior that I judge you on. You can't even speak Armenian, you don't know our history, why the xxxx should we considir you Armenian. In my mind you are not even half Armenian you are American noting more. Just on other dumb white boy who thinks he's gangsta.

I'm even considering changing my last name so I won't have to deal with you ppl in random encounters when ppl read my last name off of this or that and assume I am one of you. Thank God I am not! By changing my last name you all will also not be able to look at my name on the several credits I have and assume I am Armenian . NO ARMENIAN IS GOING TO READ MY NAME IN CREDITS AND ASSUME I AM ARMENIAN!! F* that.

Do that so we don't have anything to be ashemed about. And you never was one of the Armenians, and no one will ever asume such a lagod like you is an Armenian.

Oh and if I am a "wigger" then you are all the original version of the word. Worthless, useless, ineffectual, and purposeless. In my mind that word is colorless so please feel free to address it to yourselves. All you have in your tiny little pathetic world is bickering about the same crap issues day-in-and-day-out ... like all the words in this forum will ever make a difference. Oh it does actually ... it makes a difference in the fact that no one comes here and posts because the ultra nationalistic dorks here push everyone away who isn't an extremist for Armenia. So this forum is like a giant black hole for Armenia and Armenians as the only thing you all do is invite ppl here just to suck them up into your event horizon and crush them at your singularity. It's like "Welcome open your mouth so I can crap in it." Soon the only ppl left here will be the ones that are already agreeable with all the uber nationalistic rhetoric. In which case you aren't spreading your personal gospel about the Armenian condition more than you are just preaching to the choir. "Speeches only reach those who already know about it" ... seriously.

THIS IS REALITY ... and I'm out for good so you can save your responses for someone who actually cares.

Go and xxxx yourself and leave the Armenian people alone, I don't understand why you even came here in the first place.

The reality is that there are forum members that are half Armenians, the reality is that I know who they are, and I don't attack them. And they themselves accept my views because they know I am right and because they themselves feel identity deprived, they are showing a honest effort to be Armenian. I respect those individuals (i.e. Karothegreat) and those men and women I respect, those are the half Armenians I tolerate and will accept. If you are already a halfie and are making a decent push to be Armenian (i.e. double the effort of a full Armenian), I respect you. It is only when you come to these boards and try to validate your parents mistakes and don't drop your other half.

I hope you didn't mean I was an half Armenian, I don't take it as an insult or any thing. But I'm ful blooded Hay from Hayastan.

[Lucin]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

I don't understand Virgil, What is his fault to be a half-Armenian? If his culture is 'tainted' or whatever, blame it on his Armenian parent; it's all parents' fault. At least the guy is not denying his heritage; he is showing interest to learn about his lost culture, identity and language.
What kind of a harm does he do to me (a full Armenian)? What kind of a harm does he cause to the Armenian culture? Are we as people that weak and shallow culturally to be influenced and tainted by foreign elements? I don't think so… And I assure you as long as there is an Armenia, half Armenians or the ignorant full-blooded Armenian crowd cannot 'taint' the Armenian culture.

Furthermore, at times the contribution that some half Armenians make, may end up being much more productive and more valuable to Armenia than the "contribution" that an ignorant, self-hating full-blooded Armenian such as Ara Baliozian would ever make.
And finally, me as a 100% Armenian, I would embrace all those Armenians, (be it 50%, 25%) who consider themselves one, those who attempt to learn the language (if they don't know), partake in some activities, in other words, all those who do not manifest some ignorant or/and careless attitude towards their heritage. Of course, in these regards, I consider some Armenians more Armenian than others.

And Lamb boy, had you felt so proud and comfortable with your identity ( Armenianness), you wouldn't have given a damn what people (be it Armenian or non-Armenian) say about you, whether they consider you an Armenian or not and you wouldn't have made a huge deal about it. It seems to me that you are not pretty comfortable with your identity.

[Armenian]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

I don't understand Virgil, What is his fault to be a half-Armenian? If his culture is 'tainted' or whatever, blame it on his Armenian parent; it's all parents' fault. At least the guy is not denying his heritage; he is showing interest to learn about his lost culture, identity and language.
What kind of a harm does he do to me (a full Armenian)? What kind of a harm does he cause to the Armenian culture? Are we as people that weak and shallow culturally to be influenced and tainted by foreign elements? I don't think so… And I assure you as long as there is an Armenia, half Armenians or the ignorant full-blooded Armenian crowd cannot 'taint' the Armenian culture...

I agree with you Lucin, but "Lamb Boy"s reaction was worst. It's now obvious that being an "Armenian" for him was a 'fashion' statement, nothing more. Having said that, I rather have mixed Armenians who are patriotic than full Armenians who are self-hating...

[Virgil]

Re: Are Armenians on the verge of extinction?

I don't understand Virgil, What is his fault to be a half-Armenian? If his culture is 'tainted' or whatever, blame it on his Armenian parent; it's all parents' fault. At least the guy is not denying his heritage; he is showing interest to learn about his lost culture, identity and language.
What kind of a harm does he do to me (a full Armenian)? What kind of a harm does he cause to the Armenian culture? Are we as people that weak and shallow culturally to be influenced and tainted by foreign elements? I don't think so… And I assure you as long as there is an Armenia, half Armenians or the ignorant full-blooded Armenian crowd cannot 'taint' the Armenian culture.

No, they can, they have, and if you extrapollate it, accepting individuals like this will eventually fracture our people. You don't live in the United States, you don't know what it means to see some of the rejects out here and furthermore, you don't know where I am coming from. Iran is a very insulated community and even if you don't want to "admit" I am right, you can at least admit to this, how would your identity fare or how about this, what would have happend to Armenians in Iran if they were to accept your views on mixed Armenians? They would have converted to Islam a long time ago and consider this, it is precisely because they are Armenian today that allows them to go across the border and buy property in Armenia.

Understand this very clearly, anyone, I mean any Armenian that claims "mixed Armenians don't taint" or "should be tolerated" should take a good long look at our history, what our ancestors sacrificed and really think about what they are saying. I am sorry to say this to you Lucin, but in my opinion individuals such as you, that are from Iran, Syria, and the Middle-East only exist because Armenians did not "opt" to take mixes. They first spit on people that even thought of marrying out and finally, they made anyone that did into a outcast. Your a product of what you now fight against.

This is my philosophy, creed, whatever, I will never accept mixed Armenians, I detest anyone that marrys out, and certainly, by assuming its ok to accept these halfies I am also automatically assuming that their actions are "ok".

Finally, anyone that thinks they are not brining foreign influences, they are dillusional, just the fact that they fracture our communities is in itself a influence. They only bring division, foreign ideas, and death to our communities.

Just answer this question, I just want a God dam answer, how would Armenians have fared in the Diaspora and during Soviet times if they were to "accept mixes"? They would not have "fared" well, you would most likly be Russified, Turkified, and Iranified. You would be in some town in Lebanon or Syria with no idea who you are and what background you posses. If you are honestly telling me that actions like these don't damage our communities, by all means, explain to me why it is then that for almost 500 years in Turkey, 400 years in Iran, and 90 years under Soviet Russia, Armenians did not mix with otars? Your premise or ideas made sense to people then, in fact, they had more reason to mix, they were living as second class citizens. Everyone talks about how its "so great" to "change", the reality is that this change is only benefitial to the states Armenian reside in or else stripping yourself of your identity and accepting foreign influences will destroy your ties to your homeland. Your child's loyalty is split, your loyalty is split, and certainly, this inself can be considered a influence.

Listen Lucin, anyway you slice and any response you do give, I don't care, I know exactly why I don't accept these individuals and even if you put a gun to my head I will never ever call them Armenian. Once you accept them you spit on everything your ancestors fought for, furthermore, once you accept them you are content on adapting, and finally, once you do accept them, certainly, you are bringing foreign yoke into communities. Someone that is raised xxxish and Muslim can never be Christian Armenian, someone that is black can never a be a white Armenian, and someone that is Greek Armenian can never be Armenian, its a fact of identity construction.

Furthermore, at times the contribution that some half Armenians make, may end up being much more productive and more valuable to Armenia than the "contribution" that an ignorant, self-hating full-blooded Armenian such as Ara Baliozian would ever make.

Do I have to repaste my Kasaperov quote? Understand Lucin, I don't consider any half Armenian a Armenian nor do I want "their contributions", I could care less. Furthermore, I don't really consider half the contributions made outside of Armenia as a "Armenian contributions". This is the loser mentality, this is the reason why Armenians don't have a functional state, they take these half ass Armeniansa and worship them for doing nothing but furthering their own respective careers. Yes, I am famous scientist, but where did my knowledge come from? Foreign sources, who did I ultimatly benefit? Foreign states. And not limited to science, assuming I am a Armenian artist, where did my sources and experiences for my art come from? Foreigners and foreign states, who did I write for and in what language? Foreigners and in a foreign language. Do you know why a Armenian will never win a Nobel prize? Because he or she does not live in Armenia, he or she lives in a foreign state, this is the reality you have to accept, once you do accept this micro example, my point of view becomes infinitly more clear, but if you don't, if you choose to live in the dark like most of these half ass Armenians in the Diaspora, then you will most likly assmililate and extrapollated, the Armenian Diaspora will go extinct.

And finally, me as a 100% Armenian, I would embrace all those Armenians, (be it 50%, 25%) who consider themselves one, those who attempt to learn the language (if they don't know), partake in some activities, in other words, all those who do not manifest some ignorant or/and careless attitude towards their heritage. Of course, in these regards, I consider some Armenians more Armenian than others.

You can, but I won't, I know the truth and, to be frank Luclin, that is a coup out excuse. The reality is this, anyone that opts to accept these Armenians under the premise that they can "drop the other half" is dillusional. You can't drop your race, religion, or ethnic identity on a dime, it is who you are, understand this fact and move on. I can't magically become not black, xxxish, and/or Greek, you are who you are. Anyone that states otherwise has to think very clearly on what they saying because it is wrong and leads to more fracture within our communities. Everything I have stated makes sense both historically and logically, why is it hard for any of you to admit it? Are you honestly going to stick to the illogic of your opinions when in fact the basic theories of identity construction state otherwise? What do you want to gain but absolution?

Sorry, but you failed to understand my point of view, you failed because your not going back and rereading why exactly I am fighting these kinds of opinions in the first place, maybe if you did, you would know exactly why I have my views and what purpose they serve. You have to understand, clearly, if you had a object and if you devalued it, eventually, individuals will not fight the good fight over it, if you understand this last point then you are one step closer to understand my views on the subject.

And Lamb boy, had you felt so proud and comfortable with your identity ( Armenianness), you wouldn't have given a damn what people (be it Armenian or non-Armenian) say about you, whether they consider you an Armenian or not and you wouldn't have made a huge deal about it. It seems to me that you are not pretty comfortable with your identity.

Your statements make no sense at all, so let me get this straight, I am Armenian and I dislike Lamb Boy, meaning, he can't connect with me, so in essence he can't really "partake" in community events, why? Because his identity at the root is different, does this register? No, apprently not, the reality is that the reason why Lamb Boy can never be Armenian because it is not something you can tangible learn, there exist no manual on "how to be Armenian 101" and if you say there is then you are just devaluing your identity, you are taking away any incentive there exists to maintain a Armenian family, and understand this, this has a impact on Armenia.

In fact, it is precisely because of our emphasis of having a Diaspora that forces Armenians to emigrate out of Armenia. When you have a two sets of people, one living in horrible conditions, while the other is in a "utophia", what would convince the prior group of living under such harsh standards if there exists no differences between both individuals? He or she won't, furthermore, what incentive does it give me to go back to Armenia if I have my own personal "Armenia" in Glendale, Watertown, Tahran, Bourj Hammond, and Istanbu?