Who is an Armenian?

[Tigranakert]

Re: Who is an Armenian?

Anoush and jgk3, I totally agree with you. The Armenian church is a special and a very positive thing for our nation.

Today to stay a real Armenian, you must have had a very strong rooted family background who were themselves very patriotic and were involved in cultural or patriotic events or committees and inspired you to get you involved in everyday Armenian cultural centers, to be part in committees, or to be involved with the Church and finally having read our literature and also some of the nationalistically derived literature.

I do not agree with this one, as much as it is the ideal situation to grow up in, it is not always true. I have grown up fleeing Iran with my parents, I have lived my entire live in the Netherlands and as we had many difficulties, the Armenian factor did not play a huge role in our live. Also I did not have any Armenian family members in the Netherlands, so we were totally not involved in Armenian politics, culture nor the Church. Luckily I was only allowed to speak Armenian at home, and I thank my mother for that.

The most important thing for Armenians to be connected with our motherland and thus becoming a true Armenian, are two things.
1. Reading our literature and nationalistically derived literature.
2. Visiting Armenia.

I personally know true nationalistic, patriotic and proud Armenians. They are Armenians from Iraq and Turkey. They do not speak Armenian, their family members do not have a connection with Armenia. Some of their cousins are even anti-Armenian. But because they have read about the Armenian history and culture, they fell in love with Armenia. They plan to visit Armenia this summer and are learning Armenian right now.

That is why I think the new programs like ''Ari Tun'' will be a major success. The Diasporan Armenian youth can visit the motherland and in the meantime, learn and read about our history and culture.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Who is an Armenian?

You are obviously not getting through your skull

Sip has every right to express his opinion on this forum no less than you.

This is to all of you in this thread when these cliche topics resurface lets be as polite as possible.

[Lucin]

Re: Who is an Armenian?

I have also publicly denounced him, in quite strong terms. What upsets me most is how some in our communities, especially in America, promote him and his agenda. Nonetheless, did you catch his confession about his kin when he said - not all Jews were Young Turks? This is priceless:

"I have to tell you a few things. First of all I'm Jewish. Secondly, I'm Safardic. Safardic. My mother's native language was Spanish. She's from Salonika. Եէնի Թուրք չէ. ոչ, Եէնի Թուրք չեմ... որպեսզի սխալ չմբրնես, you know, not all Safardic Jews are Young Turks. OK?"

James Russel (part 5 @ 4:25)

Wow, I don't know what else he should have said to reveal his true colours...
And what is more disturbing is that his teacher has been an Armenian woman apparently, if I heard it right. Nina Garsoian??

There have been Armenians loooooooooooooong before the Church and hopefully there will be Armenians loooooooong after

Yes!

we manage to purge this mental disease from our collective psyche.

No! How does what you call "mental disease" bother you, Sip?

[Anoush]

Re: Who is an Armenian?

Anoush and jgk3, I totally agree with you. The Armenian church is a special and a very positive thing for our nation.



I do not agree with this one, as much as it is the ideal situation to grow up in, it is not always true. I have grown up fleeing Iran with my parents, I have lived my entire live in the Netherlands and as we had many difficulties, the Armenian factor did not play a huge role in our live. Also I did not have any Armenian family members in the Netherlands, so we were totally not involved in Armenian politics, culture nor the Church. Luckily I was only allowed to speak Armenian at home, and I thank my mother for that.

The most important thing for Armenians to be connected with our motherland and thus becoming a true Armenian, are two things.
1. Reading our literature and nationalistically derived literature.
2. Visiting Armenia.

I personally know true nationalistic, patriotic and proud Armenians. They are Armenians from Iraq and Turkey. They do not speak Armenian, their family members do not have a connection with Armenia. Some of their cousins are even anti-Armenian. But because they have read about the Armenian history and culture, they fell in love with Armenia. They plan to visit Armenia this summer and are learning Armenian right now.

That is why I think the new programs like ''Ari Tun'' will be a major success. The Diasporan Armenian youth can visit the motherland and in the meantime, learn and read about our history and culture.

It is because I came from such patriotically derived family background who were involved with the community; then I was also involved for a while, I always thought that in good part that's why I feel the way I do. But your point is very well taken Tigranakert; because as a child I loved to read Armenian literature and I also fell in love with my nationality and our land when I read them. Yes my family introduced me and very much encouraged me; but what I really got close to was the knowledge and the education I got from reading about them.

And of course I agree for visiting our homeland. But the initial step is to read and become knowledgeable about our culture, anscestors, history and homeland.

Let me point out in here though that I would think that most Armenians would be very much connected with pride and with love towards their homeland and her preservation after reading our vast and rich Armenian literature; but not necessarily everyone. And then there are many others that don't even give a care to read them. Especially the ones who do not I don't think there would be much hope for them that they will or their future offsprings will remain Armenian.

[Gavur]

Re: Who is an Armenian?

To stay Armenian you need to marry an Armenian.

[Anoush]

Re: Who is an Armenian?

To stay Armenian you need to marry an Armenian.

Gavur, are you Armenian?

[Pazooki]

Re: Who is an Armenian?

Gavur, are you Armenian?

I know I am.



Long time no see.

How you been Anoush jan?

[Sip]

Re: Who is an Armenian?

No! How does what you call "mental disease" bother you, Sip?

It bothers me when people try to stick "Christianity" right in the list of requirements to be Armenian. Thankfully, communism went a long way of purging some of this religious cultism out of mainstream Armenia but still a lot of old-timers (and unfortunately some of the youth) still see the church as being central to the Armenian identity where in my opinion, it has outlived its usefulness.

The main problem is, that I personally hate for this to turn into Armenians considering themselves less "Armenian" when they slowly discover they can't really identify with the church (or any church for that matter) anymore. In a sense, we have two kinds of attrition going on ... the cultural one where Armenians are slowly dissolving into other cultures (especially in the disaspora) and the religious one where people are slowly waking up from the 2000 year old Jesus-induced coma ... and it's not just an Armenian phenomena.

[Anoush]

Re: Who is an Armenian?

I know I am.



Long time no see.

How you been Anoush jan?

Just fine and happy to be here Sero jan, thank you. This is a good place to be in!

[Anoush]

Re: Who is an Armenian?

It bothers me when people try to stick "Christianity" right in the list of requirements to be Armenian. Thankfully, communism went a long way of purging some of this religious cultism out of mainstream Armenia but still a lot of old-timers (and unfortunately some of the youth) still see the church as being central to the Armenian identity where in my opinion, it has outlived its usefulness.

The main problem is, that I personally hate for this to turn into Armenians considering themselves less "Armenian" when they slowly discover they can't really identify with the church (or any church for that matter) anymore. In a sense, we have two kinds of attrition going on ... the cultural one where Armenians are slowly dissolving into other cultures (especially in the disaspora) and the religious one where people are slowly waking up from the 2000 year old Jesus-induced coma ... and it's not just an Armenian phenomena.

I realize you answered to Lucin, I am pretty sure she'll answer you at her time. But I want to add something to what I said above for your knowledge and to enlighten you; just in case you didn't know or realised it until now. Whether you are an old timer or a new timer, the Church in the States and around the globe is not alone by Itself. There are two main parties within the Armenian communities; the Echmiadsin Church is linked with Ramgavars and the Antelias Church in Lebanon is linked with Tashnagtsoutyoun. You think people are simply going to Church only? Around the Churches there are committees and associations. Such as Hamazkain Association, the HOM or "Hay Oknoutyan Mioutyoun" which is the Red Cross of Armenians and works benevolently mostly nowadays for Armenia by creating hospitals, youth centers and the likes. They especially helped Armenians from the motherland when the earthquake happened. They sent them people with food, clothing, etc. etc. and there is the Saturday Armenian School, the Ladies Guild and Men's Club, the Armenian Boy Scouts, to name a few. On the part of Ramgavar Association, they have the AGBU and the Church has various other committees and associations who also helped the people who were effected from the earthquake in the homeland. They have Saturday Schools, etc. etc. So you see, the Church gathers the whole of the Armenian communities around it and that way the communities not only floorish the Church but by socializing and working together for the Church and also for the communities' various sub committees, it gives them a hope or a way to assymilate less and be connected to our homeland and our roots.

Whether I am of Christian belief or whether you are not is not the question here. The Church is still controlled pretty much with the two main existing Armenian parties and they see to it that the communities not only floorish but they do good for our homeland, especially now that we have a free RA.

Perhaps communism has worked for 70 years in Armenia and Armenians remained as such because we had a land, as small as it was but it was our land and mostly Armenians lived in there (preserving their language and their culture) because they were in their own homeland; but in the diaspora, for a century now the Church and Its surrounding communities was and still is the cornerstone for diasporans hopefully not to vanish and not to assymilate and somehow be connected with their anscestral national roots, to one another and to their homeland.