Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

[Pazooki]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

All this talk of fighting. If you stop and think for a moment, you're putting your life on the line for something. For what? A language?
For me, unless it's God, not much else, maybe a few other things, warrant that kind of sacrifice.

What do you mean just a language?

It's not just any language, it's the Armenian language. The language of the Gods.

I'm willing to sacrifice myself to bring peace to Armenia and not let any country or anyone xxxx with us. We may be small in numbers but we have the spirits of lions. If you taunt us or mess with us, we will rush at you whether its bare handed or with a weapon, we will take you down. We don't just fight for anything. We fight for mother Armenia, cause without it we're nothing.

[gmd]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

No. No, it's not going to help you. The Islamic ruling is that not even a hand span of land can be given up to infidels. It becomes compulsory for every able bodied person, even women and children that can walk and pick up brick, broom or rock to dispel disbelievers.

I should have been more clear and specified that "Kemalism" is not enough for me to fight, because it's really nothing special. Kemalism is just the worldy and unspiritual phenomena of nationalism applied to the Turks. In that regard, every people have a right to self determination in theory, but it's a farce to think they have a right to infringe on other's rights. I don't live by nationalistic philosophies and at the least I try not live by any worldly/existential philosophies.

I'm pretty sure you've read "All Quiet on the Western Front" or have seen its production in film, have you? My understanding of nationalism is that it is a vain and empty philosophy.

If it will make it easier for you I will accept Islam if you can arrange for me to hold title to Ararat and its surrounding regions.

[gmd]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

where do i sign up?

[Anoush]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You know, for a long time, I had forgotten that feeling from the heart. I felt it when I was 5 or 6 though, there must've been a lot of talk about the Armenian-Azeri war at the time and I really wanted to be a soldier at that age. I never learned the outcome of the war though haha, my parents had such an aversion towards these matters.

I only really felt it again rather recently, when Georgia started bombing S. Ossetia. Suddenly I felt this surge of how volatile life is and why we must fight for it, suddenly I realized that all this bad rap on honour and giving one's life for the nation is just to keep us sterile and weak. It was the first time in my life that I ever witnessed (though through the news and internet videos) chaos in the world that I felt a sense of connection towards. I immediately felt this strong urge to go and join our own army at that point.

Right now it's calmed down, thanks to the fact that I live somewhere where no one comprehends the purpose of fighting. But I know very well that I'll feel the same thing again when Armenia needs to fight. In the meantime, I want to make an environment here for myself though that reminds me of this often enough so that I can feel prepared for when I actually arrive.

You're the first woman I've met who I can share this with, and god, what a sense of relief! I wish more Armenian women understood what you do.

Dear JGK3, I have grown in that nationalistic environment and I have been told since I was a child that I have a "heghapoxagan" personality. I am still a thinker, I have goals and my purpose in life like most of you here I am sure; but just like you pin pointed it, it is an urge for our rights that have been denied and we have been taken advantage of for a very very long time. Since the 12th and the 13th centuries and before. You know, no one - no country or people understand the core of our hearts and why we feel this way. They can't and they don't; because as a nation they didn't go through what we have gone through. Oh yes other people have been annihilated and walked over, but from over three thousand years back we had culture, civilization, knowledge of making armaments and we have been walked all over, yet we have survived because our nationality have depth to it, we are a real nationality, not a made up unreal mixed up nationalities such as the turks, the azeris and others. We are real, we have great history and we are smart and good people and in the end we will win. Hopefuly I will see our great lands again belonging to our people while I'm still living. But if I die before that, I just wish you and my daughter and many of you will see it with your own eyes.

Jgk3, thank you for being what you are and understanding me and our sense of purpose as a nationality (a real nationality) and thank you for your kind words.
Today I feel a sense of belonging with you good Armenian people.

[Anoush]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

All this talk of fighting. If you stop and think for a moment, you're putting your life on the line for something. For what? A language?

You'll never understand us and don't even try. We unlike the turks are ancient, unique and civilized people with great history and wisdom. And our just rights have been denied and walked all over when we were and still are the most civilized nationality, having great intelligence, good working ethics, pride and real love for our country, our people and our beloved lands. A language FYI is in itself the existing culture of people, it is the language that binds a nationality together.

For me, unless it's God, not much else, maybe a few other things, warrant that kind of sacrifice.

Did God tell you to hate other nationalities because they are different than you? Did God tell you because you are Mohammedan and I am Christian to kill me brutally, take over my belongings, my land and then deny that you killed me and stole all my belongings or my lands? Because that's what your turkish government did, and since your today's government denies such a haienous crime against humanity, they will themselves commit a Genocide time and time again if given the chance. Because they are barbaric and NOT civizilized.

Why was our nation annihilated? In most part because we were Christian and because your government then wanted to get hold of our belongings, our monies, our riches and our anscestral lands. But like Sero and others in here said it already, you people beware of us as we are not made up of stolen bunch of "basheb'ozook" crowds like you. We are real and there's a LION lying in every Armenian's heart, and that LION will strike when the time is ripe.

[jgk3]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I'm happy to hear you've felt this overwhelming urge to fight too, it is just surreal that we can share in this feeling, haha! A deep sense of belonging indeed.

[Anoush]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I'm happy to hear you've felt this overwhelming urge to fight too, it is just surreal that we can share in this feeling, haha! A deep sense of belonging indeed.

Indeed dear jgk3, indeed!

[Pazooki]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You'll never understand us and don't even try. We unlike the turks are ancient, unique and civilized people with great history and wisdom. And our just rights have been denied and walked all over when we were and still are the most civilized nationality, having great intelligence, good working ethics, pride and real love for our country, our people and our beloved lands. A language FYI is in itself the existing culture of people, it is the language that binds a nationality together.



Did God tell you to hate other nationalities because they are different than you? Did God tell you because you are Mohammedan and I am Christian to kill me brutally, take over my belongings, my land and then deny that you killed me and stole all my belongings or my lands? Because that's what your turkish government did, and since your today's government denies such a haienous crime against humanity, they will themselves commit a Genocide time and time again if given the chance. Because they are barbaric and NOT civizilized.

Why was our nation annihilated? In most part because we were Christian and because your government then wanted to get hold of our belongings, our monies, our riches and our anscestral lands. But like Sero and others in here said it already, you people beware of us as we are not made up of stolen bunch of "basheb'ozook" crowds like you. We are real and there's a LION lying in every Armenian's heart, and that LION will strike when the time is ripe.

Ooooooxh lav asetir tsavet tanem!!!

Don't take Armenians for granted SoyElTurco. We can be the nicest people you meet but make one mistake or attack our pride, country, or language and you will see that LION that Anoush was talking about it. Sadly it'll be the last thing you see.

[Pazooki]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Ooooooxh lav asetir tsavet tanem!!!

Don't take Armenians for granted SoyElTurco. We can be the nicest people you meet but make one mistake or attack our pride, country, or language and you will see that LION that Anoush was talking about it. Sadly it'll be the last thing you see.

What's the matter SoyElTurco? Not afraid of LIONS?

Don't worry, we got fierce Golden Eagles as well

[SoyElTurco]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You'll never understand us and don't even try. We unlike the turks are ancient, unique and civilized people with great history and wisdom. And our just rights have been denied and walked all over when we were and still are the most civilized nationality, having great intelligence, good working ethics, pride and real love for our country, our people and our beloved lands. A language FYI is in itself the existing culture of people, it is the language that binds a nationality together.

Did God tell you to hate other nationalities because they are different than you? Did God tell you because you are Mohammedan and I am Christian to kill me brutally, take over my belongings, my land and then deny that you killed me and stole all my belongings or my lands? Because that's what your turkish government did, and since your today's government denies such a haienous crime against humanity, they will themselves commit a Genocide time and time again if given the chance. Because they are barbaric and NOT civizilized.

Why was our nation annihilated? In most part because we were Christian and because your government then wanted to get hold of our belongings, our monies, our riches and our anscestral lands. But like Sero and others in here said it already, you people beware of us as we are not made up stolen bunch of "bashe b'ozook" crowds like you. We are real and there's a LION lying in every Armenian's heart, and that LION will strike when the time is ripe.

Armenian "uniquenes." How unique are you people really? Your dress is the same as every other people's in the caucus. You all have long ponytails and colorful aprons covering your white dresses. All of you in the caucus dress the same and dance the same. The rhythmns and melodies of your music are the same, with only sight or no variations in your instruments. The differences in your languages have created you into different people, into what otherwise would have been the same shared history amongst all the descendents of those people who live in that region today. Instead of unified history that interfaced with the world around it, its was fragemented history for each and every people that was localized regionally and didn't project anywhere. There was a time you had an international presence (under Tigran) but that didnt last long. All of you in the caucus are now the same people that cling to the different histories of you different languages thereby perpetuating yourselves as different people. I went to school with a half-azeri half-armenian girl. How many intermarriages have there been between the caucus peoples? The Chechens converted themselves to Islam to prevent themselve from assimiliating into the Russians when their women began to marry their Orthodox Russian brothers.

You're all the same people. The only reason why there are differences is because everyone is clinging to their language. I read somewhere once "If you want to destroy a people, destroy their languag." Your ancestors are not only from Ancient Armenians, but Azeris, Georgians, Ossetians, Abkhazians hell, even Iranians and Greeks. Now your cultures have converged and the only thing anyone in that region has to claim or assert a separate identity is their language. A language divorced from the culture and beliefs of its ancient speakers.

This formula applies for almost all people, including Turks. We are nothing special. Unique, yes, just like you're unique. Us Turks are composites of the middle easterner peoples and original christian anatolians (including armenians). We do not have any semblance or much cultural resemblance to the people of Altaics - the original Turks. We too are distanced from our roots. Our cultures more resemble that of the northern midlle east (syria and some of iraq) and the levant. We have very similiar customs with the Greeks and the Persians. What happened to the Greeks with their togas?

You see, culture constantly evolves. Being Turkish is important to me in that it is an experience through a different culture and language, its not any reason for me to think I am inferior or superior to any group of people, including Armenians. Nationalism was this blind satanic religion that tore you Armenians apart from us. Did we ever commit crimes against you before the empire started to deteriorate when the outside forces were working hard to ignite self-realization amongst the many minorites of the Ottoman Empire?

Did you know before the nationalist explosion amongst Greeks, both Turkish and Greek Cypriots always thought of themselves as one unified Cypriot culture? Did you know to this day there are both Greek and Turkish Cypriots that identify themselves Cypriots and still accept their differences in ethinicity and relgion? Nationalism tore up the multi-ethnic state of the Ottman Empire.

You're turning what you are not just into and ideology (there is nothing wrong with that, except it could be ridiculous) but you're turning it into a dangerous ideology like supremists. You're claim of Armenians is so high, but if they were as tenacious and resilient as you assert, the silent genocide of assimiliation would never have happened; your people knowing that they have a great culture would have prompted them to militantly and dogmatically protect it - only the xxxs have been able to do that in history - instead of becoming like those degenerate rabiz you all are horrified with. There was I time I used to love my culture like you, but I realized its infatuation and not love. I can only direct my love at something that can guide me and preserve me. Has "Armenianism" been able to guide the rabiz of Glenoaks? I live in a Russian neighborhood in Brooklyn, and there are a substantial amount of other soviet bloc immigrants, including armenians. MAny i have met are nice. But the other many, off the boat, have earned Armenians a reputation of banditry. These unfortunate ones, from mother Armenia, are they defunct? Why couldn't Armenianism prompt them to live up to the definition of being Armenian? They were living up to the definition of being a regular human, thats for certain.

I won't discuss anymore of my thoughts of the heinous crime on a forum - not publicly - public discussion will hijack any effort to make meaningful way into that subject.

take no offense, i mean no hostility.