Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Saco and kanadahye definetly do not understand this issue. They percieve the discussion of a legitimate social problem which is not even uniquly armenian as somehow dissing armenian values and armenian women even when it is a armenian women who started the thread.There is definetly immeturity here and it is not all that unnatural (they are both young). The simple fact is you won't get what we are talking about untill you have experienced it yourself and this means having a long and serious relationship with a women if you are a man.Being in armenia does not give saco the right to simply dimiss this issue, you dont encounter this problem at the begining of a relationship or even if you make it to second or third base with a woman. These two guys are just too young and inexperienced to comprehend this subject and i wish they would just let those who have something constuctive to add to participate instead ruining this very insightfull and usefull thread.

Did you even read the post?

I don't need to know about your marital or relationship problems, but it's not an "Armenian cultural problem". By the way, married/divorced guys talk.... us single guys know very well how things go down, so just because we haven't "experienced it" doesn't mean we're ignorant. It's more of a reason to stay single

So we're waiting for something constructive or insightful.... I'll invite Dr. Phil to join the forum.

[Haykakan]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

"By the way, married/divorced guys talk.... us single guys know very well how things go down, so just because we haven't "experienced it" doesn't mean we're ignorant."
I did not say you are ignorent i said you are too young and inexperienced.I can sit here and tell you what it feels like to have a child but you can never know that feeling untill you have your own.Some things you just need to experience to understand.You have been doing better about being less offencive and i comend you for it but relapses such as "I don't need to know about your marital or relationship problem" seem to still slip through so you still have some work to do there.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

"By the way, married/divorced guys talk.... us single guys know very well how things go down, so just because we haven't "experienced it" doesn't mean we're ignorant."
I did not say you are ignorent i said you are too young and inexperienced.I can sit here and tell you what it feels like to have a child but you can never know that feeling untill you have your own.Some things you just need to experience to understand.You have been doing better about being less offencive and i comend you for it but relapses such as "I don't need to know about your marital or relationship problem" seem to still slip through so you still have some work to do there.

I don't think I said anything that you didn't imply. Maybe I'm too good at understanding people and reading between the lines. When you have a close knit family like I do, you learn to understand a lot of things without experiencing them.

[Gavur]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Its true that , understanding and knowing are separated by doing.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Its true that , understanding and knowing are separated by doing.

I can have the knowledge to build a house yet get someone else to do it without even touching a tool. Knowledge is power. Managers tell people how to do things without ever having to do it themselves.

[hrai]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

I can have the knowledge to build a house yet get someone else to do it without even touching a tool. Knowledge is power. Managers tell people how to do things without ever having to do it themselves.

Kanada, theoretically I know how to change a dirty diaper...............but...

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

This seems to have degenerated into a slug-match between Saco & Haykakan. Shame.
I'm not taking sides at all but Saco, you run the risk of alienating many people here with your "More Armenian Than You" attitude.

Woa, woa, you misunderstood me completely yekhpayr. Completely. Relax.

Why do you disrespect Diasporans so ?
My gorgeous wife is a Yerevansti princess and we went through the traditional courtship ritual for a long time before we married and even so I was petrified when I asked her father for her hand even though I knew he would say yes. Our daughter knows the same values and will live by them, not because we as her parents say she must, but because she sees the worth in them.
Will we insist she marries Armenian? No, we'll insist she marries true to her values, chances are it will be an Armenian boy.
Saco, please I don't want to hear anymore about your being in Armenia is better than others..............you don't know where everyone lives or where they're from or why, it loses your audience.

I wasn't saying that Armenians living outside are "fallen" and I'm in the holy land, lol. Come on bro, your misunderstanding me. I was getting pissed at the people who make really big judgement calls ... not necessarily you ... when they haven't even come here or have met very few Armenians. I consider all of you my people ... my family. Everything I do, all I know, all my experience ... is for all of you and my nation. Don't misunderstand me.

What I meant was that Haykakan said that he's visited Armenia a few times and I said that that isn't enough to understand our people. Might sound confusing but like I said, you need to become a part of our people to understand them properly. This doesn't mean your not an Armenian or I'm better then you. I'd rather die then say something like that. Please don't misunderstand me.

And this "slug match" started when Haykakan started throwing my age around, trying to make it seem like I'm just this kid who doesn't know better!

I don't know where you got the idea that Saco was "More Armenian Than You". He was speaking on behalf of all Armenians around the world. Personally, I agree with everything he has said and I've been in the "diaspora" my entire life. The funny thing about culture, the majority of the time, the woman's culture is dominant unless the man's side of the family is directly involved with the children. That IS why it's called the mother's tongue. I think this is why you see more Armenian women marrying into other cultures and Armenian men running around aimlessly like chickens with their heads cut off. Saco was referring to everyone's opinion on Armenia when most of the diaspora go there to "vacation" and "party" and don't really get a taste of what life is like in Armenia.

I would just like to add that, like I said before, it's very important that our girls have good fathers. Why? Because they'll guide their daughters in the right direction. Right now though, a lot of Armenian men here in Armenia don't even have the right to call themselves Armenians (trust me, you'd throw them out of here if you had the chance) so that's why I think we should talk about them more then the women. If women are handicapped in some way, it has a connection more to the parents then our traditions.

Here's an example. In my street, there are many families. All of them abide to the Armenian laws and live as Armenians ... but some of them are great Armenians and raise proper children who I'm proud to call my friends ... and other's raise completely spoiled, arrogant, and goghakan children. Now, who do we blame? Our traditions or the parents? Some families don't teach a THING about our Armenian traditions (let alone history or anything serious) to their kids and naturally, they start acting wrongly and/or seem hanicapped. So how can we blame it on tradition, in this case ... and many others? It's the parents not our traditions. I can bring you lots of examples. I hope you got my point, guys.

Again, I'm not saying there aren't girls who are handicapped in some way ... I'm just not putting emphasis the size of Mt. Ararat on them. I'm not starting to think our majority of women are that way because only a small minority is.

I see the problem stemming from somewhere else and not our traditions. It's our traditions that hav ebrought us this far and I don't think we should be dissing them even in a subtle way. I know so many families that live by tradition and they are simply wonderful and live properly, without many problems ... let alone "handicaps", lol. So that proves it isn't our traditions but rather something else ........

Saco and kanadahye definetly do not understand this issue.

You haven't even replied to my posts in TWO THREADS so before you start dissing my now, read them, my friend. I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything else but the one thing I hate the most is when people, it doesn't matter who, start to ignore what the other person is saying ... and then, if that wasn't enough, calling him this or that.

They percieve the discussion of a legitimate social problem which is not even uniquly armenian as somehow dissing armenian values and armenian women even when it is a armenian women who started the thread.

An Armenian women who doesn't seem to come back and continue the discussion. So many people, not just me, gave really serious questions and neither you or the Armenian women you mentioned said anything. And although you say this problem isn't uniqely Armenian ... the way you guys talk places a special emphasis on our girls and our "traditional upbringing" so how it not uniqely Armenian. We're talking about Armenian "traditional upbringing" and so far, no one mentioned a single tradition that they didn't like. So don't be talking about imaturity Haykakan. It's not the place or time for that.

There is definetly immeturity here and it is not all that unnatural (they are both young).

Here we go again with the age flick! You haven't answered anything I've said in any way and your calling me young?

The simple fact is you won't get what we are talking about untill you have experienced it yourself and this means having a long and serious relationship with a women if you are a man.

You don't have to be married for ten years to know what it's like. I've seen many, many Armenian families and I feel our problems don't stem from tradition. Because you have been in a relationship doesn't mean you can call us young. I never called YOU young although many of your views were so I'd appreciate it if you placed more emphasis on what I'm saying then how old I am because it doesn't matter one bit.

Being in armenia does not give saco the right to simply dimiss this issue

When did I "dismiss" it? I'm just clarifying the issue so we'll know what we're dealing with and talking about. I never said NO Armenian women is handicapped. What's immature is how you don't reply to anything I say and then get the right to call me young.

These two guys are just too young and inexperienced to comprehend this subject and i wish they would just let those who have something constuctive to add to participate instead ruining this very insightfull and usefull thread.

So far, you haven't said much that has been "constructive". I've given you a lot to think about and/or work out or consider in my posts and you just ignored everything. That's what's immature.

I don't think I said anything that you didn't imply. Maybe I'm too good at understanding people and reading between the lines. When you have a close knit family like I do, you learn to understand a lot of things without experiencing them.

I agree. You ESPECIALLY gain a lot of experience when you meet and live with lots of different families and I have. So stop with the "I have more experience then you do" flick. It just shows how proud you are...not how smart, Haykakan. I have nothing against you, yekhpayr.

[hrai]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Woa, woa, you misunderstood me completely yekhpayr. Completely. Relax.

jan, I'm very relaxed, just making a point.

I wasn't saying that Armenians living outside are "fallen" and I'm in the holy land, lol. Come on bro, your misunderstanding me. I was getting pissed at the people who make really big judgement calls ... not necessarily you ... when they haven't even come here or have met very few Armenians. I consider all of you my people ... my family. Everything I do, all I know, all my experience ... is for all of you and my nation. Don't misunderstand me.

lav.

What I meant was that Haykakan said that he's visited Armenia a few times and I said that that isn't enough to understand our people. Might sound confusing but like I said, you need to become a part of our people to understand them properly. This doesn't mean your not an Armenian or I'm better then you. I'd rather die then say something like that. Please don't misunderstand me.

I don't think I agree with you here, but that's lifes rich tapestry.

[Gavur]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

I can have the knowledge to build a house yet get someone else to do it without even touching a tool. Knowledge is power. Managers tell people how to do things without ever having to do it themselves.

That logic doesn't apply here.You can't get married then send someone in your place to honeymoon!

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

jan, I'm very relaxed, just making a point.

And I completely understand you ! Sorry if I said something wrong. I just had an emotional moment there. I hate how people around the world throw our girls around whenever they xxxxing feel like it (I'm not talking about anyone here). It pisses me off. It's simply disrespecting.

I don't think I agree with you here

I'd love to know why ! I'm not saying you can't understand anything...I'm just saying there's a lot you can't experience if you don't live with your own people. I've lived in the Diaspora for most of my life and I can feel the difference almost immediately between living out there and here in our nation itself. It's very different. Plus, I don't sit at home all day. I'm always in contact with all kinds of people everyday, especially our people, and to gain the experience I'm talking about, you must live in Armenia at least for a year. I don't mean to disrespect anyone by saying this. It is the truth though and I don't see why anyone should disagree with me.