Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

[Gavur]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Thank you for a most eloquent slice of life.

[Kiffer]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

I am an old woman, born in France in1925, from armenian parents. We lived in a house of refugees
60 families, all survivors of genocide. All Armenians. When we were children we used to play together,
boys and girls, in the garden behind the house, we were not allowed to go in the street.
But when I was 12, my mother said to me : now you cannot play with boys.
I went to French school. I worked very well at school. As my father died young , I was the eldest and had to work. My aunt did not want her daughters work outside, they had to work at home. I found jobs in offices.
All the Armenian young men of the house married French girls, because they thought we were old minded.
We were half old minded, and half influenced by our French education at school.
One of my French colleague’s was delighted to meet me, as I was serious.
His parents first were disappointed, as they wanted a French daughter –in-law from their town. But they changed quickly their mind when they knew me and my family. My husband always loved me.

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Now about our Armenian men, who have been very good breadwinners, family figures and proud fathers. Proud to keep their families in good standing and seeing that their children are safe and are not living promiscuous lives; but staying good and descent. That their children are doing well in school. Armenian fathers are very protective towards their offsprings, they are loving papas and support their children and love them very much. Some unfortunately I heard in Armenia who drink and then they hurt their wives at times; but I hope and hope that it has subsided and it's in the minority cases. However in general, Armenian men are very protective and good family providers and fathers.

Btw; forgive me for also speaking about our Armenian men in here when the subject was about our women. However I was compelled to also speak about our mighty Armenian men.

Thank you Anoush

And the main reason men drink and all is because of the gov. I've explained why on countless occasions. The reason Armenia is in it's current state is because of the gov.

And Kattie, when you come to Yerevan, I'll pick you up in Zvartnots and then we'll go see what the girls in Armenia are like. What your saying is right when your talking about a small minority and IF there are any problems you mentioned, it's because of the gov.

[hipeter924]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

I'm not familiar with the culture of this forum, but I have noticed that issues of importance to Armenian women are seldom discussed.

I think that Armenian women are "handicapped" when compared to women of other cultures, not all cultures. For instance, Armenian women are forced to kill the little charmer in them and end up unlearning how to seduce and/or feel guilty about it. A form of excision? Sadly, some compensate for the loss use their body and/or a behavior with sexual connotations to charm and seduce, as I see it charm has nothing to do with body or sex. Others become easy victims of the first boy who does the clown and promises them the moon.

There's also domestic violence and/or its milder form i.e. "silencing" in one way or another those who dare to stand up for themselves.

The worse part is that I don't think that the situation changed much, and many young girls are still victim of the same oppressive values.
.

I think the biggest issues regarding women are a) pay b) respect c) domestic violence d) exploitation.

A) Women throughout the world whether it be in Armenia or any other country are paid far less than men, especially in the third world. I have seen some statistics and apparently women do 2/3s of the work and get paid less than men, its just wrong. Yet there seems still to be this stereotype that men are better than women at work and thus deserve more pay.

B) There are religious texts and of course UN agreements on the rights of women yet neither of these are properly followed. The worst example of religion has to be Afghanistan where the Taliban raped and terrorised the Afghan population in direct desecration of the principles of the Koran they said they believed in. As for UN agreements on the rights of women not many nations have signed it or followed it through as women still have far less if no representation compared to men in corporations, governments and even educational institutions. It is apparent that there is a lack of respect for women whatever the religion or the nation.

C) Domestic Violence I personally know at lot about because it occurs in New Zealand a lot, so this is not just a issue of wealth but an issue of how men interact and behave around women. Its a lot to do with self control...how can we stop people resorting to violence. I think a lot of it is in human nature, but people just have to learn that by hurting your family you are hurting the people you love, and ultimately you are hurting yourself.

D) Exploitation of women is terrible, as I said before women do 2/3rds of the worlds work and get paid less than men. But it gets worse, what about the young girls in Europe, Asia and the Middle East that are abducted by unknowns or sold by their families into illegal brothels? This is a big issue. How can we accept that right now girls are being taken away and having their lives ruined forever. The other area is sweatshops because it is well known that young girls and boys are sold by their families into sweatshops. Finally we end up at the arranged marriage issue, because women are deprived of their rights by being forcibly married off by their families and intimidated and threatened if they don't agree, also divorce in places like Saudi Arabia is so greatly restricted that men can abuse women at will and their wives can't escape from it are forced to be married forever.

[Lucin]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Why do you guys get all defensive? What she is implying is not that far off the reality, at least for a good proportion of Armenian women… I believe the image is not quite as 'vartaguyn' as you may want to see... and we need to discuss similar topics pertaining our ailments more openly. So I agree with her message but disagree with the generalization.

The Armenian couple is mainly based on the idea of building an Armenian family, and less on two individuals who are charmed by each other and would like to build a future together...

I agree. Could this also probably be a reason (one of the reasons) why a couple may begin to stray after a while?

I said: Sadly, some compensate for the loss use their body and/or a behavior with sexual connotations to charm and seduce, as I see it charm has nothing to do with body or sex.

Can you define 'charm' please?

[iFemale]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

When I read your posts and look at the rabiz girl with cheesy outfit and looks in your avatar, I can't help myself wondering how "exquisite" that "trail of charisma" would seem to me?

It would never appear to you, nor was it intended for you. Clearly, you validate your rank of “brainpower” by measuring up my avatar with my posts. Oh, now that’s exquisite! Exquisitely unique and unimaginable…or is it? And of course it would seem “rabiz” to you. I should realize that you exist spaced out from the crowd and are guided by your conscientious apathy that gives meaning and direction to your life. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to slip on my pair of Bebe short-shorts, position my Prada shades at the tip of my nose, hop into my Mercedes CLS55Amg, and speed to the Armenian supermarket so that I can buy me some authentic saline sunflower seeds in order to spew out on the foreheads of everyone else who isn’t rabiz.

[Gavur]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

What do you mean by being in danger? I just said handicapped, and gave an example of a handicap i.e. learning to oppress our natural inclination to charm. Just watch how naturally little girls charm, and how they are taught or forced to unlearn it as they grow.
The Armenian couple is mainly based on the idea of building an Armenian family, and less on two individuals who are charmed by each other and would like to build a future together. One may argue that the former means stronger foundations, but that is a different discussion and the two are not mutually exclusive. In societies where Armenians are directly exposed to other cultures, the traditional concept of the Armenian couple becomes vulnerable because insufficient to guarantee the longevity of the couple. I don't shy away from responsibilities, but a sense of responsibilities is not always enough to guarantee the longevity of a relationship, partners should not take each other for granted and that's where charm comes in. I don't have in mind particular charms, and it's more about charming.
Of course, I neither meant that only women should give and nor that it is specific to Armenians, but all is relative and Armenians have their peculiarities.

I like that word you used "Charm" that's basically what lovingly married couples do on a daily basis, and yes, it does take two to tango, and no Armenian woman don't have to lose it if they balance of it mixed in with healthy self-esteem.

[Kattie]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Thanks for the replies, I will reply when I can in the order they were posted.

This is a very important topic with posts.

This is a very important post with words. :sarcastic:
I'm charmed by the eloquence and creativity of your reply.

Are you talking about women in Armenia or Armenian women everywhere? Armenian women in the US enjoy a number of the freedoms and powers offered to them thanks to the womens movement in general (in the west). Of course there are still those who may still be handicapped by traditional mindsets in their households, but that is very quickly evaporating away. In Armenia itself, I don't know.

I've known Armenians both from Armenia and different parts of the diaspora, and I have in mind what is considered as the traditional Armenian woman. It is true that the situation is a bit different in each community, and what I said may apply more to some and less to others.
We seem to agree except that I don't think that it's "evaporating away" that quickly, but that is subjective.

When you come back, please tell us exactly why you are handicapped, or feel you're in danger of being, especially in US.

What do you mean by being in danger? I just said handicapped, and gave an example of a handicap i.e. learning to oppress our natural inclination to charm. Just watch how naturally little girls charm, and how they are taught or forced to unlearn it as they grow.
The Armenian couple is mainly based on the idea of building an Armenian family, and less on two individuals who are charmed by each other and would like to build a future together. One may argue that the former means stronger foundations, but that is a different discussion and the two are not mutually exclusive. In societies where Armenians are directly exposed to other cultures, the traditional concept of the Armenian couple becomes vulnerable because insufficient to guarantee the longevity of the couple. I don't shy away from responsibilities, but a sense of responsibilities is not always enough to guarantee the longevity of a relationship, partners should not take each other for granted and that's where charm comes in. I don't have in mind particular charms, and it's more about charming.
Of course, I neither meant that only women should give and nor that it is specific to Armenians, but all is relative and Armenians have their peculiarities.

Offend? Haha! I do not position my intensity at a state of mind that is blinded to perceive the ethics of humanity as a whole, rather just pinning down the Armenian woman.

I'm glad to hear that it did not offend

Just because your genes have failed to detain such a fortune, that doesn’t mean an actual Armenian woman isn’t able to grasp the psyche of a man by her exquisite trail of charisma.

When I read your posts and look at the rabiz girl with cheesy outfit and looks in your avatar, I can't help myself wondering how "exquisite" that "trail of charisma" would seem to me?

Since when do women "sweep a man off his feet"?

Please ask the question to the person who said so, I was simply quoting her.

If you're talking about attracting the pu$$y whipped westernized man then this whole post is useless, lol.

The answer to your question was in my first post. I said: Sadly, some compensate for the loss use their body and/or a behavior with sexual connotations to charm and seduce, as I see it charm has nothing to do with body or sex.

[Anoush]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

What a nice article you put it out Saco jan on behalf of Armenian women. That's great! I must add that the majority of our women have been the pride and joy of our nation and they gather the whole family around them in harmony, in dignity and in peace. They are excellent nurturing mothers and loving spouses.

Now about our Armenian men, who have been very good breadwinners, family figures and proud fathers. Proud to keep their families in good standing and seeing that their children are safe and are not living promiscuous lives; but staying good and descent. That their children are doing well in school. Armenian fathers are very protective towards their offsprings, they are loving papas and support their children and love them very much. Some unfortunately I heard in Armenia who drink and then they hurt their wives at times; but I hope and hope that it has subsided and it's in the minority cases. However in general, Armenian men are very protective and good family providers and fathers.

Btw; forgive me for also speaking about our Armenian men in here when the subject was about our women. However I was compelled to also speak about our mighty Armenian men.

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Nor are there many Armenians from Armenia here

Speak for your small self, Mr. Kibbles...