Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

[gegev]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

How can I take seriously a person

The things (obedient etc.) you strongly disagree with have been quoted from Christ. Thus you are preaching him. And I’m just an ordinary human being, therefore I have no words to waste, good bye!

[Kattie]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Yes, unless the ingrediants are taken from her... as a result of which she'll forget how to cook, how to speak and how to play her instrument...

If done tastefully then it may be extra-charming, actually that's an ideal and it's more than what I'm wishing for. Personally, I find women/men who dare to express/be themselves to be refreshingly charming, unless they are being jerks or hideous. But one has to keep in mind that anything that is not part of the local culture runs the risk of being misunderstood, rejected and even vilified.

Coming back to the tomboy who "were not quite comfortable with their chest", were they subconsciously trying to become boys because the community continues to favor them?

LOL, that was sarcasm!!!

I asked her where she grew up and where her family is originally from.

lol Of course it was sarcasm. Of course, you were simply asking where I grew up.

"A criminal is frequently no equal to his deed: he makes it smaller and slanders it." (Nietzsche)
I see that you lack the courage to assume yourself, to assume your actions, and you're trying to hide behind distortions and maybe lies. Where is that "courage and virility" that men often brag out?

So by pulling strings does that mean that I don't fit into your prejudice view of the typical Armenian male?

It means that you may not be a honest person worthy of consideration and respect. It has nothing to do with being Armenian.

No!
Don’t enforce!

How can I take seriously a person who says

Being obedient Armenian women play very important role in the family they are, in fact, the shadow Commander in Chief

and suggests that a person who's raising the issue of women being oppressed is "enforcing" a view?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Look you misunderstood, I was not trying to attribute 'being sexually promiscuous' to neither charm nor femininity. I was just comparing the two extremes and trying to show how exercising nudity is being perceived as charming/ charm in certain cultures (like in your dearest America, or Europe or…. So a majority of Diasporan Armenians are quite naturally being influenced..) while in some other cultures (Widely in Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. and to a lesser degree in our villages mainly) women are practically hostage and are treated like a possession deprived of the very basic human rights (I have already given example on this but I can say more).

Hmmm.... I agree with you here. Although I think America (through pop culture) and Europe (through fashion and modeling) are perverting the beauty of the female body. But that's for an entirely different topic. As far as Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. go... civility is something that has to develop slowly through society. Going from one extreme to the next through intervention by other cultures (Americ....cough) is like taking an ape, dressing it up in clothes and calling it a man. The men in these cultures have been so used to their way of life (not by their own choice, it's the way that they have been raised to perceive society) that by another culture coming in and interfering is what causes the men to go "ape". This is the point I've been trying to make, our Armenian culture isn't repressive.... its tasteful, it develops self esteem and security for the woman. However, that's only if they are RESPECTED by the men. Unfortunately, being exposed to other demeaning cultures, some of our men have lost this respect and have lowered themselves to the mentality of apes. I don't know how else to express my point of view. Imagine submersing yourself in luke-warm water and slowly turning up the temperature, you would slowly adapt to the change in your environment. Now, if you were to jump right into scolding hot water, there would be an instant shock to your system. I think this is what they call culture shock.

Okay first up though, Anoush, why the "drink like the Irish" thing, I know you probably didn't mean that offensively, but we the drunk Irish generally appeared during the forced removals and evacuation from starvation to America, Irish peopel weren't allowed to be hired in alot of places (NINA law, no Irish need apply) so many resorted to drinking because life was miserable (some people lsot their entire families and had nothing to live for), I know you didn't maybe mean to offend, still hurtful though

My best friend growing up was Irish, his father was Catholic, and his mother was Protestant... and no they weren't trying to kill each other

I see nothing wrong if a person has multiple sexual partners and they are single, regardless of what we might say, man has inside him (and woman) a carnal nature too, love is important, far more important than sex, but if you do not have someone to love, the indulgence (not compulsion) of lust is not negative (provided that procautions are observed), we cannot deny that he as human beings have sexual urges, it is after all natural, it ensures the continuance of the species

This model of behavior would work if everyone was classless and lived on the same social-economic level. I'm not sure which society you live in

And I don't see how you can learn to love when you've already admitted it doesn't exist.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Okay first up though, Anoush, why the "drink like the Irish" thing, I know you probably didn't mean that offensively, but we the drunk Irish generally appeared during the forced removals and evacuation from starvation to America, Irish peopel weren't allowed to be hired in alot of places (NINA law, no Irish need apply) so many resorted to drinking because life was miserable (some people lsot their entire families and had nothing to live for), I know you didn't maybe mean to offend, still hurtful though

Anyway, I think everyone might have misunderstood me, when I said freely make I love, I mean that a woman like Anoush said should be albe to do that without reprisal, whether or not a man or a woman has multiple sexual partners before marriage (not after, infidelity except in highly special cases is frowned upon) is not up to society to deside, let a person be with whom they desire ,
society has no right to control what a person does in their own private abodes, if a man does this he can do this without reprisal, if a woman does this then she is called a xxxx.

I agree with Saco, I detest men that yell out lewd phrases to women, often its merely posturing to impress the other lads, I myself keep my thoughts to myself (as possibly the thoughts and desires I might have towards said women might make her blush )

I see nothing wrong if a person has multiple sexual partners and they are single, regardless of what we might say, man has inside him (and woman) a carnal nature too, love is important, far more important than sex, but if you do not have someone to love, the indulgence (not compulsion) of lust is not negative (provided that procautions are observed), we cannot deny that he as human beings have sexual urges, it is after all natural, it ensures the continuance of the species

As to the dog...wow , maybe an abused dog, I have never seen a dog do that before, maybe there should be a Jerry Springer for dogs

As to other cultures, obviously other culture might influence Armenia to do certain things, but in general all world culture with the exception of a few have been intolerant of women, this true especially in very religious cultures subscribing to an Abrahamic faith (Judaism, Christianity or Islam) which view women as the source of the original sin.

Just remember that religion cannot be entirely blamed, but it also is partially at blame, how many witches in Europe were not burned under suspicion of witchcraft, even though they were merely old women, young and promiscuous or women of great power

[Lucin]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Well Kattie said "as I see it charm has nothing to do with body or sex."

So what does being sexually promiscuous (which isn't a male or female trait) have to do with being feminine, charming or cultured?

Also, can you be a bit more specific when you use reference words such as "some cultures" and "other cultures". Thanks.

Look you misunderstood, I was not trying to attribute 'being sexually promiscuous' to neither charm nor femininity. I was just comparing the two extremes and trying to show how exercising nudity is being perceived as charming/ charm in certain cultures (like in your dearest America, or Europe or…. So a majority of Diasporan Armenians are quite naturally being influenced..) while in some other cultures (Widely in Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. and to a lesser degree in our villages mainly) women are practically hostage and are treated like a possession deprived of the very basic human rights (I have already given example on this but I can say more).

Also, just like a regional cuisine uses ingredients found locally, we tend to use ingredients found in the local culture when we charm. Nothing more natural. After all charming is a language and is meant to be understood and appreciated, so using local ingredients help.

Yes, unless the ingrediants are taken from her... as a result of which she'll forget how to cook, how to speak and how to play her instrument...

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

I asked her where she grew up and where her family is originally from. She seems to be capable of understanding the english language

I don't completely agree with that, Kanada........

Yes, it is hard to deal with self-righteous, self centered Armos who can't even figure out why they're being ignored.

Self-righteous? Look who's talking! I can figure out why you aren't replying. I just can't figure out why you ask people to give views, never responding to them. If you were just looking for a couple of Armenians that felt like you did, you should've said so in the beginning of this rediculous thread. Stop with the pointless complaints! Your more self centered then any Armo ever could be.

Saco mostly talks to himself

And you talk to nobody, lol! Is this you or does it just come with the neighborhood? You've got a strange attitude. No one here is trying to defame you. So far, you're the one going around insulting and ignoring everyone pointlessly. If we wanted to defame you or make you feel bad ... we would, have no fear! But we don't. We aren't here to make you feel like xxxx. So change your stance and stop looking for holes in our posts. Start trying to prove our views wrong. We've proven you wrong a hundred times over.

So by pulling strings does that mean that I don't fit into your prejudice view of the typical Armenian male?

It appears not ! Apparently, she hasn't met an Armenian man before.

[gegev]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Also, since so many chovenistic men call women bad names for the slightest of reasons, it further forces Armenian women to lose their personalities as a whole. This in turn, ruins many oppurtunities these women will ever have. Sad.

Oh and to top it all off, stupid people respond negatively to obvious truths just for the sake of arguement.

Real Sad.

Gegev answered:

How many times a woman (somebody’s present or future wife) should carry out “the slightest sin” you mentioned above to become civilized and up to date?

Don’t you call a prostitute; prostitute?

gegev apparently lives in a cave,

I wouldn’t show up out of my cave, while the words civilization and freedom of speech are used to defame the loyalty and high moral values of the true indigenous Armenian women.

This women “liberation” issue partially tries to liberate some of them from the sense of shame, sin, obligation and loyalty. Accommodating some women desire to do everything they want and yet having it officially approved by the general public, in a “civilized” manner.

In past Christ was preaching Magdalene, but now the times changed.

No!

Neither me nor the Armenian women and men, I’m familiar with, won’t approve it for them.

Gegev

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Maybe this will help.
After I started ignoring him, he has sent a PM that made no sense at all. To let him know that I will ignore his PMs I told him "Wow you make less sense in private than in public". He concluded "Yep, that's what I thought.... you're not Armenian. Thanks for clearing it up".
Attacking is the best defense so he's accusing me of "harrassment". Maybe defaming is his last chance to discredit my views.

I asked her where she grew up and where her family is originally from. She seems to be capable of understanding the english language

Yes, it is hard to deal with self-righteous, self centered Armos who can't even figure out why they're being ignored. Saco mostly talks to himself, gegev apparently lives in a cave, KanadaHye tries to create havoc by pulling strings.

So by pulling strings does that mean that I don't fit into your prejudice view of the typical Armenian male?

So far your views seem to be self-righteous and self centered.... since I am not putting the blame on our people but rather a real and actual complex social issue called assimilation.

[Kattie]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

How can anybody deny that it's not 'cultural'? At least to some degree… by saying cultural, I do not mean that the 'charm' is a culturally or socially constructed phenomenon but the culture and the society of any given nation can have an undeniable impact in encouraging developing it, or repressing it. Some cultures even deem it as whorish. In some cultures, a woman cannot laugh, smoke or tell a joke in front of men or else she'll pass off as a sl*t. While in some other cultures, the sl*ts (in the true sense of the word) are not being recognised as such.

It is widely accepted that human behavior is a bit hormonal a bit cultural, and charming is not an exception. Hormonal means natural/innate and cultural means acquired.
The interpretation of charm i.e. what is perceived as charming is mainly/mostly cultural and I agree with you. I just wanted to distinguish the inclination to charm or the fact of charming and how it's perceived i.e. the social/cultural interpretations of the behavior.
Also, just like a regional cuisine uses ingredients found locally, we tend to use ingredients found in the local culture when we charm. Nothing more natural. After all charming is a language and is meant to be understood and appreciated, so using local ingredients help.

I totally agree Katie. Poor Armenian women suffer for nothing. This is in part of the family control even when they are adults. Also, since so many chovenistic men call women bad names for the slightest of reasons, it further forces Armenian women to lose their personalities as a whole. This in turn, ruins many oppurtunities these women will ever have. Sad.

Yes, that's one way of putting it.

Oh and to top it all off, stupid people respond negatively to obvious truths just for the sake of arguement.

Real Sad.

Yes, it is hard to deal with self-righteous, self centered Armos who can't even figure out why they're being ignored. Saco mostly talks to himself, gegev apparently lives in a cave, KanadaHye tries to create havoc by pulling strings.

What a disgusting thing to say.

?

Maybe this will help.
After I started ignoring him, he has sent a PM that made no sense at all. To let him know that I will ignore his PMs I told him "Wow you make less sense in private than in public". He concluded "Yep, that's what I thought.... you're not Armenian. Thanks for clearing it up".
Attacking is the best defense so he's accusing me of "harrassment". Maybe defaming is his last chance to discredit my views.

Good point.
Lately a lot of threads are becoming like battlefield. The cat must be having the time of his sad life.

Just curious, how does that answer your question? Did he manage to distract you by changing the subject and playing the violin? He knows how to pull strings, that's all he does.

Also, have you noticed that he's among those trouble makers? By the way, what thread shows he has adequate knowledge of the Armenian culture and history? Thanks.

[hrai]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Hrai, I'm tired of seeing Armenians at each others throats, constantly pointing fingers... blaming our "culture" when our culture has become next to non-existant in many of our communities. My comment was to remind everyone of the real reason why we're so disconnected with each other. The young generation doesn't care about our history, and they hardly have a sense of sympathy for others in our communities. We should be pulling together and working things out instead of constantly pointing fingers at each other.

Good point.
Lately a lot of threads are becoming like battlefield. The cat must be having the time of his sad life.