Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

I'm trying to distinguish between what our culture truly is, to what our culture has become, and how its affecting the younger generation. And I think those of us who are out in the world experiencing it for what it has become have a better understanding of the problems our culture faces.

Just what I wanted to say. You reading my mind, K ?

What he's trying to say Haykakan is that the new generation knows more about the new generation then the older generation. It's natural but still, we should learn from the older generation as much as we can. I've come this far because I've done that my whole life. I owe so much of my experience to my elders and especially my parents.

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Natural inclination? Do you think 'charming' or having the 'charm' within is inherent to every single woman's nature? Do all of us possess the 'same' level of charm? And that some are able to express it while others not?

Good question. Something I want all of us to remember is that many people just aren't as charming as others and that ISN'T because they were brought up wrong. All of us are different. This also has A LOT to do with handicaps or whatever we're talking about here. Let's not place everything on traditions. It's just hilarious.

Nice... I'm glad that you did not include physical 'attractiveness' in it. I would also like to add that a woman who is comfortable in her skin, who has some degree of self-acceptance and sometimes tends to lack inhibition can emanate that 'charm' from herself...

Apres. I know a girl who isn't gorgeous but is very charming and makes everyone standing around her smile and laugh. Can we say she's that way mostly because of her "traditional upbringing"? I doubt it. So in the same way, you can't say that our girls are or aren't something because of their "traditional upbringing". That might just be one chapter of the story but not the entire story itself.

BY THE WAY, no one has mentioned a single tradition so far that "spoils" or "handicaps" our girls. I'm still waiting.

"armenian traditional upbringing" is not all that different then many other "traditional upbringings" when it comes to a women's sexuality and critisism regarding the issue is not disrespecting or putting down what it means to be armenian.

The way some talked was disrespectful in some ways so I'm sorry, I can't agree with you. And our traditions my friend ARE different and we owe a lot to them. They are not only very old and good for us in many ways but are also very interesting and special and when someone follows them, that doesn't make him/her "old minded". Let's look at something for a sec. Christianity is an old religion so by being Christians ... are we "old minded"? Of course not so why is someone old minded if he/she follows our Armenian traditions which are, in many respects, older then Christianity? Our history is over 4000 years old and so are many of our traditions. Till the 21st Century, very few had anything bad to say about tradition. Why do you think that is?

Dear Saco do you realize that i have lived in Armenia longer then you have

I wouldn't exactly say that, don't mean to be rude or anything. You said you lived in Armenia until you were nine and way back in the Soviet era. Things have changed considerably. I've lived in Armenia for 6-7 years at different periods and have been able to see the many phases our country has gone through very clearly and in great detail. After you went to the States, you said you visited from time to time and I said that's not enough. I've been here already for three years and have always been with the people and all kinds, not just guys or girls my age. That's where I get the right to talk. That's why I can understand what's going on here and I'm not saying you don't but some of your views are wrong and couldn't come from a person who lived here for a long time, mets yekhpayr.

and that eventhough i spend most of my time here in the states now i still spend time in Armenia as well and most of my friends here are armenian.

Armenians there and here are different, trust me. I'm not dissing anyone, don't get the wrong idea. I'm just saying this because I know. Armenians out there in the world are more openminded then many Armenians here and that is why you can see Armenians in the Diaspora getting more active then Armenians here in Armenia. That's something anyone that's lived here should know from the very beginning.

Experience is something that you cannot replace and when it comes to women our youngsters simply dont have this kind of experience yet ( refering to a long relationship or marriage).

I agree but that doesn't mean we don't have the right to talk. I know people older then you that haven't ever been married, have never slept with a women, but get visited by couples of all ages every single day just to get advice and they all get what they want, believe it or not. Many, many go home very, very happy. Experience doesn't only come from action or even knowledge. It comes from your nature, it comes from your past, it comes from your surroundings, and although I know you won't agree with me ... it also comes from your past LIFE and I can prove this! Don't base experience only on what someone has been through in his/her life or how old he/she is. I'm not saying I have all the experience in the world ...... I still have so much to learn ... I just want you to change your perspective when it comes down to experience. I know a four year old that plays the drums better then drumers ten times his age that have been playing for years and years. I've said this already in one of my posts. Now, explain to me how this kid is so experienced? Even those that have years of experience can't play like this kid.

I think Saco you are pretty mature for your age but i am not putting you down by saying you are inexperienced and that you need experience to undestand this particular thing.If i were you i would not take comfort in agreeing with Kanadahye's statements "I agree.", eventhough he is making progress he still has a long ways to go in presenting a rational argument without offending people on a consistent bases.

Perhaps, but he's said a lot and you haven't replied properly. You have to reply, Haykakan.

Maturity does not replace actual experience, you can be very mature but if you havent given birth you still don't know what it's like to do so.

But you don't need that experience to know much more!!! I don't know what it feels like to fall off a mountain but does that stop me from becoming or being a AAA mountain climber? You say we aren't married or haven't had children yet. What does that have to do with us having knowledge about our girls or women in general? I have personally lived in so many different countries, within many families, starting from the poor to the rich, have met girls from almost every nation and of all ages, have seen things most don't and never will, and I've experienced a lot of different things .... things many people, including you, might never experience in their entire life time ... and that's what I'm basing my views on. Only what I've experienced. I never speculate. There are a lot of things that YOU ALL have experienced naturally that I may never experience, as well, I'm not trying to brag here, we all have to learn from each other, so let's stop the "my horse is bigger then your horse" competition Haykakan because I've experienced a lot and so have you. You should be paying more attention to what I'm saying instead of testing my limits because I could surprise you, have no doubts, and I have no doubt that there is lot's I can learn from all here, especially you. I'm paying very close attention to what your saying and I'd appreciate it if you did as well instead of trying to make everyone look at my age. Many have tried in the past and have very soon realized that that method doesn't work when it comes to me. I'd like us to get more serious, if you don't mind.

The reason i don't respond to every statement you and kanadahye make is because some of them either have already been responded to,are redundent and make no sence or are hostile and unwarrented comments.

I have said so many things, have personally given many questions, have challenged your views professionally in many cases, and I don't like how your bringing up excuses. If you don't have time ... that's something else ... but don't try to cover up the fact that you haven't answered posts that challenged you and your views more then probably any other post in this entire thread! The one thing I can't stand is excuses.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

No, thats when giving starts, and through giving comes knowledge.Of course without love and respect its quite useless, knowing what it really takes is after doing not before.

If the "general" population knew what it "really takes", they would be more mature before jumping into relationships and marriage at a young age, don't you think?

Haykakan, I would expect you with your vast knowledge and wisdom to be able to lead the younger Armenian's in this forum in the right direction. You started out by complaining how they got married too young in your school... which I totally agree with, because we are no longer living within our own culture, and have to adapt.

I'm trying to distinguish between what our culture truly is, to what our culture has become, and how its affecting the younger generation. And I think those of us who are out in the world experiencing it for what it has become have a better understanding of the problems our culture faces.

[Haykakan]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Kanadahye you know you have no argument when you intentionally cut out the rest of the sentence which easily disproves the very point you are trying to make.This act implies that you saw and understood that the later part of the sentence would make your claim baseless and you chose to ommit it.This is another form of your hostility you need to learn to control and as you can see it gets you no where.

[Haykakan]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

"knowing what it really takes is after doing not before"
Excellent comment and it sums up what i have been saying nicely.

[Gavur]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Really? I didn't know a ceremony and a "legal" piece of paper followed by an all expense paid vacation constituted into "knowledge"

No, thats when giving starts, and through giving comes knowledge.Of course without love and respect its quite useless, knowing what it really takes is after doing not before.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

This is great, we have a variety of people participating in this thread now and the youngsters are becoming more coherent and less offencive.I wish our ladies would participate a bit more, afterall this issue is also their issue.
"An Armenian women who doesn't seem to come back and continue the discussion. So many people, not just me, gave really serious questions and neither you or the Armenian women you mentioned said anything. And although you say this problem isn't uniqely Armenian ... the way you guys talk places a special emphasis on our girls and our "traditional upbringing" so how it not uniqely Armenian. We're talking about Armenian "traditional upbringing" and so far, no one mentioned a single tradition that they didn't like. So don't be talking about imaturity Haykakan. It's not the place or time for that."
Kattie came back and specified the things she was talking about pretty nicely i thought and in addition we got two new ladies who also stepped up to participate but one of them got a load of undeserved crap and hostility for her participation in return and i hope it doesn't keep her away."armenian traditional upbringing" is not all that different then many other "traditional upbringings" when it comes to a women's sexuality and critisism regarding the issue is not disrespecting or putting down what it means to be armenian.Dear Saco do you realize that i have lived in Armenia longer then you have and that eventhough i spend most of my time here in the states now i still spend time in Armenia as well and most of my friends here are armenian.Experience is something that you cannot replace and when it comes to women our youngsters simply dont have this kind of experience yet ( refering to a long relationship or marriage).I think Saco you are pretty mature for your age but i am not putting you down by saying you are inexperienced and that you need experience to undestand this particular thing.If i were you i would not take comfort in agreeing with Kanadahye's statements "I agree.", eventhough he is making progress he still has a long ways to go in presenting a rational argument without offending people on a consistent bases.Maturity does not replace actual experience, you can be very mature but if you havent given birth you still don't know what it's like to do so.The reason i don't respond to every statement you and kanadahye make is because some of them either have already been responded to,are redundent and make no sence or are hostile and unwarrented comments.

I don't see anyone disagreeing with anything Saco or I have said. So far the only one spreading fallacies and unsubstantiated claims is you.

"Armenian traditional upbringing" is not all that different then many other "traditional upbringings" when it comes to a women's sexuality and critisism regarding the issue is not disrespecting or putting down what it means to be Armenian.

There are very specific traditions that gives us our sense of identity. To claim that it's OUR culture that is affecting some of our women's sexuality is somewhat unsubstantiated don't you think?

[Haykakan]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

This is not true. Most women absolutely love sex! It is in our biology!
You are right but women don't need it anywhere near as often as men do.That is also in our biology.Also sex has a slightly different meaning to a man then it does to a woman usually.

[Haykakan]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

This is great, we have a variety of people participating in this thread now and the youngsters are becoming more coherent and less offencive.I wish our ladies would participate a bit more, afterall this issue is also their issue.
"An Armenian women who doesn't seem to come back and continue the discussion. So many people, not just me, gave really serious questions and neither you or the Armenian women you mentioned said anything. And although you say this problem isn't uniqely Armenian ... the way you guys talk places a special emphasis on our girls and our "traditional upbringing" so how it not uniqely Armenian. We're talking about Armenian "traditional upbringing" and so far, no one mentioned a single tradition that they didn't like. So don't be talking about imaturity Haykakan. It's not the place or time for that."
Kattie came back and specified the things she was talking about pretty nicely i thought and in addition we got two new ladies who also stepped up to participate but one of them got a load of undeserved crap and hostility for her participation in return and i hope it doesn't keep her away."armenian traditional upbringing" is not all that different then many other "traditional upbringings" when it comes to a women's sexuality and critisism regarding the issue is not disrespecting or putting down what it means to be armenian.Dear Saco do you realize that i have lived in Armenia longer then you have and that eventhough i spend most of my time here in the states now i still spend time in Armenia as well and most of my friends here are armenian.Experience is something that you cannot replace and when it comes to women our youngsters simply dont have this kind of experience yet ( refering to a long relationship or marriage).I think Saco you are pretty mature for your age but i am not putting you down by saying you are inexperienced and that you need experience to undestand this particular thing.If i were you i would not take comfort in agreeing with Kanadahye's statements "I agree.", eventhough he is making progress he still has a long ways to go in presenting a rational argument without offending people on a consistent bases.Maturity does not replace actual experience, you can be very mature but if you havent given birth you still don't know what it's like to do so.The reason i don't respond to every statement you and kanadahye make is because some of them either have already been responded to,are redundent and make no sence or are hostile and unwarrented comments.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

This is not true. Most women absolutely love sex! It is in our biology!

Speak the truth sister, speak the truth