Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black World

[Armanen]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Not being Christian has noting to do with immigration but more with the fact of people losing their faith. What does being Christian matter? No they aren't, Europeans today don't have a different culture from 50 years ago, the French are still drinking their wines, the Germans are still the same punctual time driven bastards they always were. Most Muslims in Western-Europe have been living there for a couple of generations now and arrived in Europe as guest workers after WWII. they have integrated as much as the Armenians have but I don't see anyone complaining about that fact. The last generation of Muslims has integrated more than the one before and in a generation there will be no difference except the skin color or the religion. Because they are a minority and they can never replace the original population. More than 90% of the people in Europe are white natives.

2.1 is the magic birth number to replace a given population and keep it at stable levels, anything below that and on a continued basis means that the country will have less people in 20-30 years than it currently has. The average in much of Europe, east and west, is below 2.1, and immigrants that come over have at least 2 kids, most have 3-5. And the majority of these immigrants come from muslim countries with cultures and traditions different and sometimes opposed to the liberalism that Europe loves to champion so much. Now you claim they have integrated. Is that why there were massive race riots in Paris in 2005? Is that why Austrians and Germans complain about the turks that come to their countries and do not integrate? What about the bombings in London and Madrid, carried out by the children of recent immigrants who had easily fallen under the destructive doctrine of fundamentalist islam.

What does Christianity have to do with it? Well Europe, until 60 years ago, was a Christian continent, and unlike Armenia, the majority of modern European nations didn't have a coherent nation-state/kingdom prior to their conversion to Christianity, which is among their pillars of ethnic cohesion.

It seems the post-modernism fad that Europeans love so much has infected your brain.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

2.1 is the magic birth number to replace a given population and keep it at stable levels, anything below that and on a continued basis means that the country will have less people in 20-30 years than it currently has. The average in much of Europe, east and west, is below 2.1, and immigrants that come over have at least 2 kids, most have 3-5.

I agree Armanen. This isn't mere speculation on your point, that's simple population theory science. And people need to remember that that 2.1 one number is to sustain a population, nevermind have it grow on any sort of considerable scale. Armenia cannot afford a population drop at this point as it's current population (get that silly 3 million number out of your head) is unsustainable for any country even in the best of circumstances, let alone one surrounded by enemies and false friends.

I think one major issue that Armenia needs to work on is the issue of abortion. Abortion is a problem in Armenia, and it's laws regarding abortion are pretty liberal, allowing it up until the third trimester (unless in cases of the mother's danger). The government needs to work with the AAC in establishing tougher laws and enforcing said laws. Abortion is not a 'right' and it's not 'progressive'; rather, it's killing an innocent human being. Abortion in the modern era has long been known to be a technique used by globalists to "control populations" and those who were considered 'undiserable'. It is common knowledge that the founder of the abortion movement in America, Margaret Sanger, was a eugenist who aimed to 'purify' the population. Let's see if you hear that in the mainstream media by the left-wing globalists...doubt it.

But back to abortion's consequences for Armenia. More important than a law would be improving the economy and the quality of jobs available to the average person. This will make the populace feel more secure about raising a family and thus increase the population or at the very least sustain it. It will also discourage emmigration.

I am not an economist so I don't know how you could go about bettering the economy (one place to start would be to crackdown on corruption, special privileges and handouts to the rich in Armenia), but I know for sure it shouldn't include some sort of massive welfare system. Just look at any poor community in America - whether white or black. The communities who rely on welfare assistance and other public programs get "hooked" to these programs and thus become generationally dependent on the government to provide their survival. Welfare is truly the 'opiate of the people' when abused and is at worse a means of control. We do not need an entire segment of our population 'addicted to government' and this is why I support true economy growth rather than welfare handouts. Either way, imo, abortion has got to go in Armenia and the AAC needs to do more than they have been to speak out against its evils.

And the majority of these immigrants come from muslim countries with cultures and traditions different and sometimes opposed to the liberalism that Europe loves to champion so much. Now you claim they have integrated. Is that why there were massive race riots in Paris in 2005? Is that why Austrians and Germans complain about the turks that come to their countries and do not integrate? What about the bombings in London and Madrid, carried out by the children of recent immigrants who had easily fallen under the destructive doctrine of fundamentalist islam.

I think part of the problem is with the states that let all of these immigrants in all at once. Everyone knows you can't let immigrants into a country on a massive scale - immigrants are a liability, not an asset. That goes for any group that has been let into any country on a large scale. In this day and age of political correctness and multiculturalism the group will never assimilate because if you are told that your culture is just as important as the host country's culture, why would you ever give up your original culture? We have seen the disaster of modern Western Europe and the destruction of its culture - let this be a lesson to all concerned that immigrants on a large scale are never good for any country, let alone immigrants of a vastly different culture (i.e. Muslims).

What does Christianity have to do with it? Well Europe, until 60 years ago, was a Christian continent, and unlike Armenia, the majority of modern European nations didn't have a coherent nation-state/kingdom prior to their conversion to Christianity, which is among their pillars of ethnic cohesion.

Christianity has everything to do with it. Whoever would give up the faith of his fathers is first in line to give up his ethnic identity. The Holy Armenian Apostolic Orthodox Church needs to be stregthened in Armenia so that we can be one as a nation. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and other false Western cults have no place there, and citizens should petition the government to either a) make the AAC the official religion or at the very least b) go the way of Artsakh and make these cults illegal. These cults (especially the Jehovah's Witnesses) are destructive to the person individually and to the nation as a whole. From what I have seen, I think Armenian citizens are doing a good job so far in getting the word out about these cults - there isn't a place in Armenia where you won't see signs denouncing them and there are certain groups in Armenia who stand outside churches handing out fliers, etc. I think once again, the AAC needs to step up along with the government to make a statement to these cults once and for all.

[Eddo211]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

I could not turn my back on a man who happens to be born mixed but sees himself as part of Armenia and supports the Armenian cause....will the Armenian Church turn its back on him?
What you say Mos is not about immigration.

[Mos]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

I could not turn my back on a man who happens to be born mixed but sees himself as part of Armenia and supports the Armenian cause....will the Armenian Church turn its back on him?
What you say Mos is not about immigration.

My problem is not individual cases like that, but the immigration and growth of people in Armenia, such as blacks and muslims, and the dangerous support of a 'multicultural' ideal in Armenian society. Plus, mixing, which some is inevitable to happen, should at least be done with white christians and not the mentioned groups. So the person can foremost be Christian with no pressure, and more or less fit in Armenian society.

[londontsi]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

I am not happy about any trend whereby the population cohesion is weakened with security implications,
commitment to the country and the nation etc.

However there is an issue.
The issue is at its early stages.

There is no doubt in my mind it will get worse (bigger ) if the underlying causes are not identified and
adjustments not made in society/economy in order to contain such tendencies.

It is no good having a go at some youngster who through no fault of his own
is born where he is born and looks what he looks like.

If that kid is ostracized for the way he looks he will hate his country and “his nation”.
He will have to serve in the military and instead of full commitment to his country at the back of his mind
he will hate everybody around him country and comrades.

Take it from there and work your way back to the source to the problem rather than
slogans of I don't like this and I don't like that.

[Mos]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

I am not happy about any trend whereby the population cohesion is weakened with security implications,
commitment to the country and the nation etc.

However there is an issue.
The issue is at its early stages.

There is no doubt in my mind it will get worse (bigger ) if the underlying causes are not identified and
adjustments not made in society/economy in order to contain such tendencies.

It is no good having a go at some youngster who through no fault of his own
is born where he is born and looks what he looks like.

If that kid is ostracized for the way he looks he will hate his country and “his nation”.
He will have to serve in the military and instead of full commitment to his country at the back of his mind
he will hate everybody around him country and comrades.

Take it from there and work your way back to the source to the problem rather than
slogans of I don't like this and I don't like that.

That is why we need to do all we can to avoid such circumstances. Fortunately, the amount of such interracial children in Armenia is extremely low, maybe 2 or 3, however we still need to be vigilant and not let this kind of behaviour continue. It doesn't matter how patriotic a black person is, he never be looked upon as "Armenian" and rather a "neggr" in society. Our society is not suited for such - we are fortunately not infected by the multicultural BS that is destroying the character of Europe.

That being said, there are a good amount of Armenian/Russian or Armenian/Georgian mixes that live in Armenia as great Armenian citizens that are accepted as Armenians by society. Mixing is going to happen, but when it does, it should be with similar groups, with similar religion, and of course same skin. With this, we just need to ensure that our national character will be secure.

[Haykakan]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

Religious and racial bigotry is a sure way to drive a nation to extinction. Not only are the current birth rates insufficiant to grow or even maintain the population but the fact of emigration makes things much grimmer for our country. The last thing we need is intolorance to drive away people who actually wanted to be a part of our society. Bigotry feeds on itself becaus by not accepting others you form a culture and a fisade of sameness which is artificial and which encourages the bigots to point out this sameness in defence of their own bigotry. Armenia has always been on one of the most important trade routes of the world and armenians have mixed with many other peoples over time. Just look at our people and you will see a wide variation in phenotype(genetic expression). The world is not black or white as many here seem to see it. Rational thought needs to be used when making decisions regarding the matter of state survival. If you discourage people from taking part in the state while no other people wish to come and those inside want to leave then you will have no state. The things i hear in this forum is very much like saying -well i am bleeding to death here because i have this cut so let me make another cut over here and maybe some blood will somehow flow back in. Being hung up on preserving something that in reality does not exist (the level of sameness) will lead to the destruction of what you are trying to preserve and to the destruction of the state as well. Armenian society is pretty intolorent as it is and making it even more intolorent makes us no different then those we hate the most. Many here are so focused on intolorance that they look to dsicriminate way beyond such barriors- they go on to focuse on hayastantsis, or parskahays, or dashnaks, or ramgavars, or catholics .. there is always something to hate and discriminate against for such people. Personal and actual population growth can only be achieved via acceptance and tolorance of fellow human beings otherwise your just another a-hole destined for extinction.

[Mos]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

Religious and racial bigotry is a sure way to drive a nation to extinction. Not only are the current birth rates insufficiant to grow or even maintain the population but the fact of emigration makes things much grimmer for our country. The last thing we need is intolorance to drive away people who actually wanted to be a part of our society. Bigotry feeds on itself becaus by not accepting others you form a culture and a fisade of sameness which is artificial and which encourages the bigots to point out this sameness in defence of their own bigotry. Armenia has always been on one of the most important trade routes of the world and armenians have mixed with many other peoples over time. Just look at our people and you will see a wide variation in phenotype(genetic expression). The world is not black or white as many here seem to see it. Rational thought needs to be used when making decisions regarding the matter of state survival. If you discourage people from taking part in the state while no other people wish to come and those inside want to leave then you will have no state. The things i hear in this forum is very much like saying -well i am bleeding to death here because i have this cut so let me make another cut over here and maybe some blood will somehow flow back in. Being hung up on preserving something that in reality does not exist (the level of sameness) will lead to the destruction of what you are trying to preserve and to the destruction of the state as well. Armenian society is pretty intolorent as it is and making it even more intolorent makes us no different then those we hate the most. Many here are so focused on intolorance that they look to dsicriminate way beyond such barriors- they go on to focuse on hayastantsis, or parskahays, or dashnaks, or ramgavars, or catholics .. there is always something to hate and discriminate against for such people. Personal and actual population growth can only be achieved via acceptance and tolorance of fellow human beings otherwise your just another a-hole destined for extinction.

Actually, thankfully, the demographics of Armenia are getting better, and less people are emigrating, and Armenians from abroad are actually immigrating more back to the homeland. So we are not "bleeding to death" This is what we have to encourage, for Armenians from all over the move back and to help build a strong Armenia. And of course have many kids. When it comes our history of intermixing, we are actually a rather tight knit ethnic group, and intermixing has been limited, compared to other groups. This comes from, one of the reasons being, our religion. In the end, we need to sustain our national character and identity, and not let the western idealise "mullticulturalism" invade our country. As Armanen, as said, just take a look at how this multiculturalism has been destroying Western Europe, it's character and identity. Armenian society does not need that.

We are at a crossroads - many European countries took the wrong path and now they are paying for it - we can make the right choice and ensure Armenia's national character is not hijacked by multiculturalism.

[Armanen]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

Many here are so focused on intolorance that they look to dsicriminate way beyond such barriors- they go on to focuse on hayastantsis, or parskahays, or dashnaks, or ramgavars, or catholics .. there is always something to hate and discriminate against for such people. Personal and actual population growth can only be achieved via acceptance and tolorance of fellow human beings otherwise your just another a-hole destined for extinction.

Really? Will you please provide us with the name of the poster(s) who is/are doing that? I haven't seen that here lately so I am gonna call bs! All I see is a few people promoting their atheism and trying to deny the major role which Christianity has played in Armenian history since early medieval times. The immigrants Armenia should aim to attract are from the Diaspora, and to a much lesser extent from Caucasoid Christian countries.

[Haykakan]

Re: Inter Racial Armenians-Blacks Families: (Small?) Bridges To The Important Black W

You can call it whatever you like mr armanen-i dont realy care. The fact is that those kids that were born to a armenian and a black parent are half armenian but the biggots will most likely alienate them to the point of them wanting nothing to do with us. There is plenty of examples in the forums here where armenians refuse to accept their own people based on religion to. Remember the article about the hemshi armenians and the discussion of relocating them to Armenia? Well there were posters here who refused to welcome these people because their ancestors were forced to convert to islam. If this is not enough evidence of how religion creates artificial devides for you then perhaps you should look at historical facts like the fact that the adoptation of christyanity by the armenian people has been accompanied by the decline of the destruction of the armenian kingdoms and the armenian state. The task of finding exemples of bigotry in these forums and among our people is unfortunately far too easy. I do agree that attracting diasporans to come to the homeland is one of the important things Armenia needs to do but its hands are pretty tied concerning this matter because of the difficult economic situation the country is in. Armenia is a dependent state that has very little actual power so diasporans are not going to be flocking there anytime soon. So where does this leave our little country if the biggots have their way? Well lets see now-people in armenia are leaving, diasporans are not gona fall for the return to homeland bit again since they got screwd the last time this happened, biggots are not going to welcome any immegrants... . Well you do not need a genius to see that this leads to a state that lacks people who will defend it and make it function. The writing is on the wall but biggotry prevents you from seeing it. Biggotry also prevents people from seeng the solutions to the problem to. Even if Armenia had a stable economy most diasporans would hardly be on the next flight to hayastan because they feel just fine where they are. There is a great rift between most diasporans and armenia and its natives. This rift is why i have been promoting the frequent visitation by young diasporans to Armenia. Unlesss we turn emigration into immigration our state is doomed along with our culture. The diasporans can try to maintain a facade of being armenian for a while but without a homeland it will be a meanigless excersize hell bent on preserving instead of naturaly evolving. Armenian culture evolved into what it is today it was not some kind of a preset condition. Focusing on preservation ommits this important evolutionary part which makes culture great. Diversity is hardly a threat to Armenia which is one of the most homogenous countries on earth but biggotry is a mortal enemy which prevents real problems from being acknowledged let alone solved.