Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I am appalled at your flippant comments.
Are you suggesting the information is too weak or non existence.
You are sailing too close to the wind of genocide deniers man.
Which planet did you land from.

There is tons and tons of documentary and legal evidence.

To start with haven't you heard of the Armenian Genocide Museum in Armenia.

http://www.genocide-museum.am/eng/index.php

Haven't you heard of the research done through German and Austrian archives.
The Turkish archives were barred for many years presumably to sanitize the available evidence.

Haven't you heard of the work of Taner Akçam( a Turkish Professor)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBNI4PcEp2I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL3WF...eature=related (lecture in 12 parts)

Haven't you heard of the International Association of Genocide Scholars

http://www.genocidescholars.org/images/OpenLetterTurkishPMreArmenia6-13-05.pdf

Haven't you heard of the Zoryan Institute.

http://www.zoryaninstitute.org/AboutUs/AboutUs.html#Our_Mission

Haven't you heard of Ambassador Henry Montague and his reports

Haven't you heard of Dr. Johannes Lepsius and his work (and papers)

http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/armenian/facts/

I could go on forever.
And all this despite the constant anti genocide propaganda dished out by so called lobbyists and public relations teams costing Turkey million to carry out.

Listen to him giving references to the newsflow at the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEKR9...eature=related

Your post just proves my point. That door isn't going to be locked anytime soon, not as long as attitudes like yours prevail.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I found this story kind of suspicious to. When my wife was pregnent we decided she should not fly because it can be risky for a pregant woman to fly. Which again brings us to the question of how did she get there. A pregnant woman taking the bus across Turkey all alone is a pretty dumb idea, so much so that it is hard to believe. Like how was she going to get to Armenia? That border is still closed. It would be interesting to find out what the hell happened in this case but with the turkish authorities handeling i am sure we wont know a thing.

There are buses, if not direct from Antalya then Antalya to Ankara and then Ankara to Tbilisi and then to Yerevan. But such a journey would take about 35 hours, far worse for a pregnant woman than a flight lasting a couple of hours. And if an airline allowed her to fly into Turkey, presumably she would also have been allowed to fly from Istanbul to Yerevan.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

The real motivation for many of these supposedly "ethno-religious" wars is usually at least in no small part "socio-economic" and the Kurds. Whilst prehaps not the genocides architects, still so have a lot to answer for. Since the Kurd knowingly entered into an alliance with a known interloper to the region and perpetrated crimes against his brothers houses.

I should point out that the Kurds aren't a Indo-Europeans peoples, either but rather a Semtic people (distantly related to the xxxs) whom acculturated a Indo-Europeans language from Persia.

As for the Turks have a long history of massacring oriental Christians, both directly and via proxy. Back the 1860s, the Turks and their Druze minions in Lebanon, massacred, Lebanese Maronite Christian farmers. Then as we know later around the turn of the 20th century. The Turks and their Kurdish lackeys lauched a whole series of massacres against the Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks.

The Kurds committed the first true genocide of the modern era, in Hakkari in (I think) the 1830s when Kurdish tribes planned to massacre every Nestorian Christian in the region. They then went methodically through every settlement in the region, killing tens of thousands, and would have killed every Christian there (men, women, and children) if the Ottoman army had not interevened to reassert the central authority and carted off the main Kurdish tribal leaders to exile in Constantinople.

[Joseph]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I am appalled at your flippant comments.
Are you suggesting the information is too weak or non existence.
You are sailing too close to the wind of genocide deniers man.
Which planet did you land from.

There is tons and tons of documentary and legal evidence.

To start with haven't you heard of the Armenian Genocide Museum in Armenia.

http://www.genocide-museum.am/eng/index.php

Haven't you heard of the research done through German and Austrian archives.
The Turkish archives were barred for many years presumably to sanitize the available evidence.

Haven't you heard of the work of Taner Akçam( a Turkish Professor)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBNI4PcEp2I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL3WF...eature=related (lecture in 12 parts)

Haven't you heard of the International Association of Genocide Scholars

http://www.genocidescholars.org/images/OpenLetterTurkishPMreArmenia6-13-05.pdf

Haven't you heard of the Zoryan Institute.

http://www.zoryaninstitute.org/AboutUs/AboutUs.html#Our_Mission

Haven't you heard of Ambassador Henry Montague and his reports

Haven't you heard of Dr. Johannes Lepsius and his work (and papers)

http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/armenian/facts/

I could go on forever.
And all this despite the constant anti genocide propaganda dished out by so called lobbyists and public relations teams costing Turkey million to carry out.

Listen to him giving references to the newsflow at the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEKR9...eature=related

I think what Bell is suggesting (correct me if I'm wrong) is that Armenians do not do a very good job or presenting their arguments. Bell is not denialist and indeed often provides valuable information on this site. The Armenian government could provide one comprehensive site with thousands of archives,sources, translations, etc. supported by Genocide scholars. That would be a step in the right direction.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I think what Bell is suggesting (correct me if I'm wrong) is that Armenians do not do a very good job or presenting their arguments. Bell is not denialist and indeed often provides valuable information on this site. The Armenian government could provide one comprehensive site with thousands of archives,sources, translations, etc. supported by Genocide scholars. That would be a step in the right direction.

You do not need corrected.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I think what Bell is suggesting (correct me if I'm wrong) is that Armenians do not do a very good job or presenting their arguments. Bell is not denialist and indeed often provides valuable information on this site. The Armenian government could provide one comprehensive site with thousands of archives,sources, translations, etc. supported by Genocide scholars. That would be a step in the right direction.

If that (highlighted) is required first port of call should be The Armenian Genocide Museum Yerevan.

However the Armenian Genocide is a very contentious subject due to some historic facts that were beyond Armenian's control, such as

We did not have a free homeland to pursue such issues (politically).
Diaspora never had the level of authority to stand in.
Political considerations by the big powers vis-à-vis Turkey.

Because of these and many other reasons the subject was "forgotten" and
easy victim to misinformation by Turkey and friends ( Israel and J.wish lobby etc) and we are where we are.

However the fight is not lost nor about to be given up.

Information about the Armenian Genocide is being researched by non Armenians as well therefore this information will never be in one place.
Incidentally no research is kept under one roof because "as a topic of the day" its taken by many Institutions and individual researcher etc.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I think what Bell is suggesting ...... is that Armenians do not do a very good job or presenting their arguments.

I disagree with that statement because there is monumental work being done by people such as ANCA and others.

It is presented well also.

There is a word in the English language called injustice.

If you have the judge in your pocket or the judge has you in his pocket then you can serve any (in)justice you want.

That is called politics.

Call the illness by its correct name.

[Joseph]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I disagree with that statement because there is monumental work being done by people such as ANCA and others.

It is presented well also.

There is a word in the English language called injustice.

If you have the judge in your pocket or the judge has you in his pocket then you can serve any (in)justice you want.

That is called politics.

Call the illness by its correct name.

I still think that there needs to be one organized comprehensive institution with concentrated archives the includes a very professional website with source material in several languages.

It should be run by Armenian and non-Armenian genocide scholars alike. It should also gather source material from numerous foreign archives. The material de-classified so far from the US archives alone already provide proof so you can imagine what can be found in German, Austrian, British, French, Russian, and perhaps even Ottoman archives. Imagine one site that could proved the coup de grace to all denialists, one resource for students, researchers, newspeople, educators, diplomats, etc to turn to.

The documents are there and I realize it is costly and painstakingly tedious work but with the level of professionalism and growing numbers of genocide scholars, it needs to get done. I realize there are several different institutions (Zoryan Institute, ANI, etc) but its about time they merge their work.

In the past, we tried to do something of the sort on this site but its not nearly good enough.

The ANCA does a great job but their focus is lobbying (I'm a member of the ANCA and love the organization) and not compiling historical documents. They have too much on their plate.

[Joseph]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

If that (highlighted) is required first port of call should be The Armenian Genocide Museum Yerevan.

However the Armenian Genocide is a very contentious subject due to some historic facts that were beyond Armenian's control, such as

We did not have a free homeland to pursue such issues (politically).
Diaspora never had the level of authority to stand in.
Political considerations by the big powers vis-à-vis Turkey.

Because of these and many other reasons the subject was "forgotten" and
easy victim to misinformation by Turkey and friends ( Israel and J.wish lobby etc) and we are where we are.

However the fight is not lost nor about to be given up.

Information about the Armenian Genocide is being researched by non Armenians as well therefore this information will never be in one place.
Incidentally no research is kept under one roof because "as a topic of the day" its taken by many Institutions and individual researcher etc.

BTW, you are correct vis a vis Armenia's ability to compile genocide info during the Soviet period.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I still think that there needs to be one organized comprehensive institution with concentrated archives the includes a very professional website with source material in several languages.

This route is the Turkish point of you.

In essence this what the Turks have been ( are saying).
Lets have and look at the issues we have between us, lets get at the "truth" as a historic exercise.
So these super archives will serve as a history text books telling the truth and that's it.

Armenia's position has been ( and is ) that the Armenian Genocide is a political issue and should be treated as such.

The world (those who matter) know about the Genocide. Throwing more facts at them will not make a difference.
Their judgment is NOT "is it true or not" but political considerations.

The fact that Genocide recognition is used as a threat against Turkey testifies that.