Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

[Alexandros]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

Many examples of turks and Kurds being kind and providing assistance BUT 1.5 MILLION TOO FEW!!!!!!!!

Why would a husband travel from Emirates to turkey and leave his wife there???

Has he no brain????

Alexandros, your wish to seemingly idealise turks and look to the good side baffles me.
The turk government carried out the Genocide but only with the knowledge and assistance of the turkish/kurdish/musselman peoples. These are the same peoples in turkey now. The turkish govt. didn't kill this woman, people did, men did, probably turkish/kurdish men, descendants of the creatures who killed in 1895, 1908, 1915 and on and on and on.

perhaps if you read about the western areas of Poland today, these areas taken from Germany in 1945, Poles are petrified that the rich Germans are coming back to re-take their land. thieving turks, living in Western Armenia have the same fears. Pity that Armenians will support, in any way, the turk economy.

hrai, every story have two sides. You unfortunately can only see the bad sides. I can see both the good and the bad sides. Something you need to learn. This is not about idiolizing Turks. This is about telling the horrible crimes committed by the Young Turks and Kemal Ataturk against the christians which constitutes a Genocide. But this is also about telling the stories about how some Turkish officials refused to deport(kill) the christians and they themselves had to pay with their life for refusing to follow orders( in the latest documentary "Aghed" they mention about this).

So the whole Turkish people is responsible for this Armenian woman`s death? Are you seriously out of your mind? Can we blame the whole Russian people when some Nazi Russians murdered Armenians - which happens from time to time - for these crimes?

Again, you try to revive the last debate where you made the false statement that all the Turks were responsible for the Genocide. Watch the latest documentary "Aghed" where they describe that although there were some "civilian" Turks who participated in the Genocide - it was far from the majority of the Turks who did this.

As for Germans taking back the Poles land, there were also fears that the Poles would flood the German labour market when Poland entered the EU. Neither have happened.

The majority of them who lives in "Western Armenia" are Kurds, not Turks. And the Kurds are for more sympathetic for what happened to the christians. Not to mention the guilt the Kurds feel for what some of their forefathers did who participated in the Genocide.

You don`t have to support Turkey`s economy. Everyone could make a choice of their own. But would you have anything against a Turk who wants to make his/her vacation in Armenia? Just curious.

[YerevanR]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

I'd like to bring your attention to this article.

Armenia Travel Advisory - Armenian Girl Murdered in Turkey

A significant segment of Turkish society hates Armenians. Therefore, it is not safe for Armenians to visit Turkey in general. The Armenian government should regulate tour agencies that sell Turkish tours, and make sure that their customers know the full extent of the danger they're exposing themselves to.

[Davo88]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

What exactly is a more reliable source for you? Hurriyet newspaper? It is weird that online Turkish newspapers did not cover any of the stories of Armenians having trouble in Turkey (not that I saw anyway). Certainly, this gives more credibility to the article posted by YerevanR.

[hrai]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

hrai, every story have two sides. You unfortunately can only see the bad sides. I can see both the good and the bad sides. Something you need to learn. This is not about idiolizing Turks. This is about telling the horrible crimes committed by the Young Turks and Kemal Ataturk against the christians which constitutes a Genocide. But this is also about telling the stories about how some Turkish officials refused to deport(kill) the christians and they themselves had to pay with their life for refusing to follow orders( in the latest documentary "Aghed" they mention about this).

So the whole Turkish people is responsible for this Armenian woman`s death? Are you seriously out of your mind? Can we blame the whole Russian people when some Nazi Russians murdered Armenians - which happens from time to time - for these crimes?

Again, you try to revive the last debate where you made the false statement that all the Turks were responsible for the Genocide. Watch the latest documentary "Aghed" where they describe that although there were some "civilian" Turks who participated in the Genocide - it was far from the majority of the Turks who did this.

As for Germans taking back the Poles land, there were also fears that the Poles would flood the German labour market when Poland entered the EU. Neither have happened.

The majority of them who lives in "Western Armenia" are Kurds, not Turks. And the Kurds are for more sympathetic for what happened to the christians. Not to mention the guilt the Kurds feel for what some of their forefathers did who participated in the Genocide.

You don`t have to support Turkey`s economy. Everyone could make a choice of their own. But would you have anything against a Turk who wants to make his/her vacation in Armenia? Just curious.

Alex, you read what you want to read.
I say "turkish/kurdish people/men" you read "all turks"
You have an idea that I should look at both sides of everything, I've looked at both sides of turks...........they look pretty much the same to me. They are arrogant, stupid, cruel, devious, murderous, cowardly .....should I go on?

Look at the provocation with the turkish flag on the mountain overlooking Nicosia!

I admit to having a blindspot concerning turks, I'm allowed that.

You seem to have an issue with Russians because of the skinhead attacks...these attacks aren't aimed simply at Armenians but aimed at any blacks from Caucasus and other foreigners. turkish attacks aimed specifically at Armenians for decades/centuries.

Without Russia, Armenia would be a baboon wasteland.
Without turkey, Armenia would be the Garden of Eden it once was.

Thanks for letting me know where kurds and turks live........didn't know that

Should turks visit Armenia? No! They closed the border after considering invading, they're not welcome, they have no purpose. turk tourists have nothing to see. turk businessmen would only attempt the suffocation of the economy, azerbaboons already sell in bazaars..........

Lastly, Alex, I don't attempt provoking last discussion. You make some good points but mainly you and I are like oil and water and will mostly disagree, let's do this with a smile.

[gegev]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

Alex, you read what you want to read.
I say "turkish/kurdish people/men" you read "all turks"
You have an idea that I should look at both sides of everything, I've looked at both sides of turks...........they look pretty much the same to me. They are arrogant, stupid, cruel, devious, murderous, cowardly .....should I go on?

Look at the provocation with the turkish flag on the mountain overlooking Nicosia!

I admit to having a blindspot concerning turks, I'm allowed that.

You seem to have an issue with Russians because of the skinhead attacks...these attacks aren't aimed simply at Armenians but aimed at any blacks from Caucasus and other foreigners. turkish attacks aimed specifically at Armenians for decades/centuries.

Without Russia, Armenia would be a baboon wasteland.
Without turkey, Armenia would be the Garden of Eden it once was.

Thanks for letting me know where kurds and turks live........didn't know that

Should turks visit Armenia? No! They closed the border after considering invading, they're not welcome, they have no purpose. turk tourists have nothing to see. turk businessmen would only attempt the suffocation of the economy, azerbaboons already sell in bazaars..........

Lastly, Alex, I don't attempt provoking last discussion. You make some good points but mainly you and I are like oil and water and will mostly disagree, let's do this with a smile.

Right!

0.01% of the Turks that didn’t kill/saved ( let say 150 or so) unarmed/unprotected Armenian children/women lifes: which is a normal behavior for ordinary civilized people (not an extraordinary act of good will), doesn’t cover the gilt of killing 99.99% that is: 1,500,000 unarmed Armenians.

[Alexandros]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

Alex, you read what you want to read.
I say "turkish/kurdish people/men" you read "all turks"
You have an idea that I should look at both sides of everything, I've looked at both sides of turks...........they look pretty much the same to me. They are arrogant, stupid, cruel, devious, murderous, cowardly .....should I go on?

Look at the provocation with the turkish flag on the mountain overlooking Nicosia!

I admit to having a blindspot concerning turks, I'm allowed that.

You seem to have an issue with Russians because of the skinhead attacks...these attacks aren't aimed simply at Armenians but aimed at any blacks from Caucasus and other foreigners. turkish attacks aimed specifically at Armenians for decades/centuries.

Without Russia, Armenia would be a baboon wasteland.
Without turkey, Armenia would be the Garden of Eden it once was.

Thanks for letting me know where kurds and turks live........didn't know that

Should turks visit Armenia? No! They closed the border after considering invading, they're not welcome, they have no purpose. turk tourists have nothing to see. turk businessmen would only attempt the suffocation of the economy, azerbaboons already sell in bazaars..........

Lastly, Alex, I don't attempt provoking last discussion. You make some good points but mainly you and I are like oil and water and will mostly disagree, let's do this with a smile.

hrai said in his previous post(some excerpts):

Many examples of turks and Kurds being kind and providing assistance BUT 1.5 MILLION TOO FEW!!!!!!!!

The turk government carried out the Genocide but only with the knowledge and assistance of the turkish/kurdish/musselman peoples. These are the same peoples in turkey now. The turkish govt. didn't kill this woman, people did, men did, probably turkish/kurdish men, descendants of the creatures who killed in 1895, 1908, 1915 and on and on and on

hrai, do you want me to look up for the post where you wrote in the last debate that the majority of Turks participated in the Genocide? Or let me ask you here: do you think that the majority of Turks, Kurds and Muslims can be blamed for the Genocide against christians or for this woman who was murdered?

The so-called "TRNC" flag on the mountain means nothing to me. But joining the EU would only be a dream for Turkey if they countinue to occupy the Northern part of Cyprus. One EU country is enough to veto Turkey and they won`t be able to join the EU - which means that Turkey`s path to join the EU lies in the hands of Cyprus or Greece if you so like.

As for Nazi Russians murdering Armenians, well how about Stalin who screwed both Armenians and Greeks and other minorities by sending them to labour camps and not many of them survived. Shall we blame the majority(is that a better word for you?) of Russians for what Stalin did to the Armenians and Greeks and other minorities? You see, you try to do the same mistake by drawing a connection for what some(notice the word) of the Turks, Kurds and Muslims forefathers did against the christians with this woman who was recently murdered.

As for who lives in western Armenia, isn`t it true that the majority of those who lives there are Kurds and not Turks(as you falsely stated)? What is it you object to dear hrai?

What do you mean "they" closed the border? Again, you seem to fault a whole(or the majority?) people for the closure of border. If Turks wants to visit Armenia and spend their vacation there, why would that be a problem? As for Turkish businessmen trying to attempt to suffocate the Armenian economy, sorry but you sound so paranoid. Turkey(or Turkish companies) is the largest foreign investor in Northern Iraq where the majority are Kurds, believe me, it has been a boost for the economy in the Kurdish region in Northern Iraq.

To sum up the whole discussion, let me quote what you said in your post: "I admit to having a blindspot concerning turks, I'm allowed that."

Of course you are allowed to do that. It just proves the point that it`s pretty much pointless to try to have a sane debate with you. So yeah, let`s agree that we will mostly disagree - with a smile.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

hrai, do you want me to look up for the post where you wrote in the last debate that the majority of Turks participated in the Genocide? Or let me ask you here: do you think that the majority of Turks, Kurds and Muslims can be blamed for the Genocide against christians or for this woman who was murdered?

Let me get started by saying that an Genocide can not happen without the support of the majority of the people. A minority helped the Armenians and the Greeks etc. But the majority of the people participated in the killings or slaughter or just did nothing to stop and help the people. They are as guilty. You can see this in Nazi-Germany as well. The people knew what was going on, the majority did not care what happened and helped the the Nazi regime.

As for Nazi Russians murdering Armenians, well how about Stalin who screwed both Armenians and Greeks and other minorities by sending them to labour camps and not many of them survived. Shall we blame the majority(is that a better word for you?) of Russians for what Stalin did to the Armenians and Greeks and other minorities? You see, you try to do the same mistake by drawing a connection for what some(notice the word) of the Turks, Kurds and Muslims forefathers did against the christians with this woman who was recently murdered.

Let's get started on Stalin. The funny thing is he didn't attack Armenians and Greeks only like you try to show. But he attacked everyone. He didn't care what your etnecity was. He attacked the Russians, Georgians, Kazakhs, Armenians, xxxs, etc. So how can you blame anyone except Stalin when there isn't one minority being targeted but everyone is being targeted.

What do you mean "they" closed the border? Again, you seem to fault a whole(or the majority?) people for the closure of border. If Turks wants to visit Armenia and spend their vacation there, why would that be a problem? As for Turkish businessmen trying to attempt to suffocate the Armenian economy, sorry but you sound so paranoid. Turkey(or Turkish companies) is the largest foreign investor in Northern Iraq where the majority are Kurds, believe me, it has been a boost for the economy in the Kurdish region in Northern Iraq.

Turkey is a democracy. So every decision the Turkish government takes has got the support of the majority of the people. So yes they support the closing of the border. So why should they be able to visit Armenia when they elect parties to govern them that support the blockade of Armenia.
And why is it paranoid? Armenia has a fragile economy and if you invest enough money in it you can do what you want. And you compare the situation between north Iraq and Armenia and their relations to Turkey. *facepalm*

[Alexandros]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

Let me get started by saying that an Genocide can not happen without the support of the majority of the people. A minority helped the Armenians and the Greeks etc. But the majority of the people participated in the killings or slaughter or just did nothing to stop and help the people. They are as guilty. You can see this in Nazi-Germany as well. The people knew what was going on, the majority did not care what happened and helped the the Nazi regime.



Let's get started on Stalin. The funny thing is he didn't attack Armenians and Greeks only like you try to show. But he attacked everyone. He didn't care what your etnecity was. He attacked the Russians, Georgians, Kazakhs, Armenians, xxxs, etc. So how can you blame anyone except Stalin when there isn't one minority being targeted but everyone is being targeted.




Turkey is a democracy. So every decision the Turkish government takes has got the support of the majority of the people. So yes they support the closing of the border. So why should they be able to visit Armenia when they elect parties to govern them that support the blockade of Armenia.
And why is it paranoid? Armenia has a fragile economy and if you invest enough money in it you can do what you want. And you compare the situation between north Iraq and Armenia and their relations to Turkey. *facepalm*

You are babbling the same BS as hrai. There is no evidence that the majority of Turks/Muslims/Kurds or Germans participated in the Genocide against the christians or Je_ws. I`m not going to sit here trying to spend my time to turn you to the "good" side. Your quote that "There's only one good Turk and that's a dead Turk!!!!!" is enough for me. Hatred will not lead you to anywhere.

Have a nice day.

[hrai]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

You are babbling the same BS as hrai. There is no evidence that the majority of Turks/Muslims/Kurds or Germans participated in the Genocide against the christians or Je_ws. I`m not going to sit here trying to spend my time to turn you to the "good" side. Your quote that "There's only one good Turk and that's a dead Turk!!!!!" is enough for me. Hatred will not lead you to anywhere.

Have a nice day.

Nazi government was democratically elected.............wilful participation of majority of population............Germans have since apologised and recompensed their victims. The Holocaust could not have happened without knowledge of, approval of, participation in MAJORITY of population.
turk government still needed active participation by majority of turks/kurds for Genocide. From turks no recognition, no apology no recompense.
A handful of "righteous" musslemans does not and never will atone for the death of a nation.
I say again, if that handful had been 1.5 million perhaps this forum would not exist.
Karo speaks plain truth about Stalin and your attempt to muddy discussion with non-relevance and personal insults.
To save you time for reviewing past quotes: I believe the majority of turks were responsible for Genocide. I believe that ALL OF today's turks carry resonsibility for continuation to later stages of Genocide.......denial etc.

If you are stung by a wasp from the nest, do you know which one? or do you just get rid of the whole nest?

As for turkish travelling into Armenia, in the zoo I look at the snakes in their glass box, should I take one home in my trouser pocket?

Lastly, Alex, if............if turks recognise and apologise for Genocide, if, that would mean absolutely nothing to me. What is done is done and cannot be undone by words.

(Perhaps moderators can review posts for personal insults?)

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian Woman mutilated in Turkey

A point worth making is that everyone who participated in the genocide against us is long dead by now. Yes the denial by modern day turkey is a sort of perpetuation of the genocide but it is nothing compared to the damadge fellow armenians do to eachother and their country today. The modern day turk is reaping many benefits which by all rights should be ours and they should pay us for these benefits (land and money) but they are not responcible for the genocide their ancestors perpetrated. The lesson to not paint everyone with the same brush can take a long time to learn and i do not blame some of the younger people for not understanding this part of life yet but it is a important part which i hope they will learn one day. We should never forget the genocide and i agree with hrai when he says "if turks recognise and apologise for Genocide, if, that would mean absolutely nothing to me. What is done is done and cannot be undone by words." thus i do not support the diaspora politics of genocide recognition. As a matter of fact i think those who preach that genocide recognition is going to get us anything at all are simply fantasizing. The utter fixation on the genocide especialy in the diaspora prevents us from identifying and dealing with the mortal dangers to Armenians and Armenia. Instead of building a nation we are letting it fall apart. Instead of spending our money and efforts on constructing a homeland we would all like to live in we are pissing it away on polititions who smile and promise the world yet deliver nothing. How long must this go on before armenians wake up? However long it is, i hope they will still have a homeland to wake up to. No court or politition or ruling or anything else will ever bring us justice. Before we can think about justice we have to build a strong homeland yet this is not what the energies and resources of the diaspora are aimed at. Often i have talked to fellow diasporans about investing in Armenia and most will respond with "i heard sonso invested money but those hayastantsies took it all and he was left with nothing". I want to emphasize the fact here that non of them ever invested a cent in Armenia but they readily draw the conclusion that such a investment is worthless since they heard of some guy who once invested there and did not succeed. There are thousends of examples where diasporans and foreigners invested and profited and continue to profit in Armenia yet that "sonso" example seems to trumph them all in the minds of most diasporans i have talked to. People have great powers but usually these powers go untapped. Should we Armenians understand the threats facing us and tap into our own powers we can make a huge difference. Yes we can still build a country that we all would like to live in, all we have to do is set real goals and meet them. If the story in this thread is true then it is a good example of utter recklesness on the part of this woman and her husband and evile cruelty on the part of whoever comitted this disgustingly cowarly act. Just imagine how demented one must be to do these things to a pregnant woman. This act does not make all turks monsters but it was commited by monsters.