Armenia for Armenians

[Odar]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

That's not entirely true - certainly, merchants go where profit is, but the lands between the sea and the desert were so often conquered by so many armies, starting with the Assyrians, that the majority of those who left were either deported, sold as slaves, or fled to places where they thought they could live a little less dangerously.
xxxs didn't pose a threat - real or imaginary - to the Empire. Instead, they were grateful as the Ottomans gave them shelter when they were expelled from Europe. If the Turks had thought they could be a danger (as in Palestine with the first Zionist settlers), they too would have been wiped away, regardless of whatever ties there might exist between them and some of the Young Turk leaders.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

I know many people here don't even wanna hear about the xxxs but there are plenty of similarities between their history and yours. They too just wanted to live and mind their own business. Only, they're currently suiting to someone's interests - not only Western, they also offer a good excuse for the Arab governments not to implement reforms - while Armenians never did.

The J3ws willingly left their homeland (which is still in dispute) in search of fortune. Armenians have historically been on the same plot of land (albeit a little smaller nowadays) for as far back as history books go. Also, the J3ws of the Ottoman Empire were protected during its collapse while the Armenians got exterminated. The only Armenians that didn't feel the wrath of the Young Turks were the ones in Constantinople only because of the large groups of Europeans that were in the city.

[retro]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

Are we sure about this? It does not sound like something Iranis would do in large scale. I do know that many Iranian born Armenians go to Armenia to take on a wife but Persians? hmm

Either way I must be the only one who is not as worried about Armenians assimilating away into oblivion just because of our past record in history. There will always be some who do that or marry Odars but that is true in any society, and the fact that Armenians are already low on population and we are not popping too many kids per family we are at higher risk but somehow I have faith that will not be the case for us.

Maybe I am too optimistic? I have seen young guys who are only quarter Armenian, cant speak or have any good knowledge of our history, complain about how they dont fit in with other Armenians but regardless they always date Armenian girls, work for Armenians, and have Armenian friends.

Armenians are right to view Iran as a potential threat to Armenia. Whilst the Russians are allied with Iran for geo-strategic reasons. The Persians, Tajiks and other Iranic Western Asian states are all extremely corrupt. Iran may well have disillusions of grandeur. However the reality is that it isn't a counter regionally to either Turkey or Israel.

Armenia may have a long history of underperforming as a nation. However in this regard it is in very good company. The assimilation of diaspora populations is to be expected and Armenians, who think otherwise are merely being obnoxious. It isn't necessary to engage in endogamy or adopt ethnocentric practices in order to increase a peoples mass or influence. Armenians simply need to put their own house in order and have more children.

[Odar]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

Well surely there have been many great intellectuals and scientists in the Islamic world, but like I said they've always been thwarted by their own obscurantist "clergy" and by their rulers (and they still are, one good example was Mahmud Muhammad Taha, the Sudanese religious reformer hanged for blasphemy by Nimeiry's islamist regime). They never reached that point where the thoughts of a few men can influence whole societies, for many a reason, historical as well as intrinsically cultural.

I know many people here don't even wanna hear about the xxxs but there are plenty of similarities between their history and yours. They too just wanted to live and mind their own business. Only, they're currently suiting to someone's interests - not only Western, they also offer a good excuse for the Arab governments not to implement reforms - while Armenians never did.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

What about the expulsion and persecution of xxxs, Muslims, Hindus, "heathens"? What about the discrimination of Protestants by Catholics, Catholics by Protestants, "Old Believers", Molokans and non-Chalcedonian denominations by the Greek/Russian Orthodox?

Let's face it, the main reason why the so-called "Christians" are not skinning each other alive anymore lies probably in the fact that you can make better business with the living than with the dead. Though I don't underestimate the influence of those people who fought to erase all kind of prejudices against people of different ethnicity/faith/etc.

The problem is, first, there's no "Love Thy Enemy" commandment in the Koran (correct me if I'm wrong), and second, Islam never had anything like Reform, Enlightenment, philosophy. Its more rationalistic and tolerant representatives have all been silenced and long forgotten, therefore those among them who are not fanatic bigots can only count on their own brains and hearts and not on the words of their scriptures. Which doesn't really help when your adversary is either ready to slash your throat or is a corrupt satrap backed by greedy foreign governments.

Islam never had reform, enlightenment, philosophy? There have been MANY Muslim achievements that have advanced civilization. What we see and hear today is created by the media of western governments who fully support those greedy foreign governments which they brought to power in order to exploit the people and plunder the land so we in the west can live "civilized".

I would have to add that there are no other people in the world who have a less tainted history than the Armenians. Our ambitions were simply to live as Armenians on our own land up until world powers decided that it wasn't in their interest to have an influential Armenia in the region because they knew we would not have been as easily exploited as the Arabs, Turks or Kurds.

[Odar]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

What about the expulsion and persecution of xxxs, Muslims, Hindus, "heathens"? What about the discrimination of Protestants by Catholics, Catholics by Protestants, "Old Believers", Molokans and non-Chalcedonian denominations by the Greek/Russian Orthodox?

Let's face it, the main reason why the so-called "Christians" are not skinning each other alive anymore lies probably in the fact that you can make better business with the living than with the dead. Though I don't underestimate the influence of those people who fought to erase all kind of prejudices against people of different ethnicity/faith/etc.

The problem is, first, there's no "Love Thy Enemy" commandment in the Koran (correct me if I'm wrong), and second, Islam never had anything like Reform, Enlightenment, philosophy. Its more rationalistic and tolerant representatives have all been silenced and long forgotten, therefore those among them who are not fanatic bigots can only count on their own brains and hearts and not on the words of their scriptures. Which doesn't really help when your adversary is either ready to slash your throat or is a corrupt satrap backed by greedy foreign governments.

[gegev]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

I'm not a Muslim, but I think this hypocrite. If you look a the Old Testament, Christianity is just as disgusting as the Islam is. God who's order to genocide, girls who are being raped and the dead penalty for breaking the Sabbath. Are you willing to discuss that that kind of things are reasonable? Christianity had also their problems with other faiths and cultures in their past and is at the beginning of many wars. The difference is that the people in Europe had their Age of Enlightment and saw that many religious rules are outdated. I truly support such kind of revolution in the Islamic world, but I think eventually it would happen. Personally, I don't can understand how a modern person can believe in such fairy tales.

Only hypocrites can compare Christian religion to Muslim one. Just remember AG, 9/11 and thousands of similar historical facts. Christian religion doesn’t consider the people, who are proponents of other religions as “gavurs” and second grade people.

Open your eyes to see all the palette of colors!!!

[Mos]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

The most important thing here is not blood, let me highlight that. In the end the genetic differences between people are minuscule, we humans are so close together in terms of DNA, more than any other specie. Especially DNA differences between the people around us, it's scientifically laughable that we can divide ourselves on the basis of such minuscule differences. What should divide us is our culture and mindset, more than anything. I will take a quarter Armenian who speaks the language, is patriotic, and holds our culture, over a full armenian, who has no knowledge of Armenian or our history any day. Converting an Armenian to Islam, is pretty much taking a very big chunk if not all of the "Armenianess" from the person. Our Christian church is crucial to our identity. And the most important thing of all, is the Armenian upbringing, growing up in an Armenian household with Armenian values.

[Eddo211]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

Are we sure about this? It does not sound like something Iranis would do in large scale. I do know that many Iranian born Armenians go to Armenia to take on a wife but Persians? hmm

Either way I must be the only one who is not as worried about Armenians assimilating away into oblivion just because of our past record in history. There will always be some who do that or marry Odars but that is true in any society, and the fact that Armenians are already low on population and we are not popping too many kids per family we are at higher risk but somehow I have faith that will not be the case for us.

Maybe I am too optimistic? I have seen young guys who are only quarter Armenian, cant speak or have any good knowledge of our history, complain about how they dont fit in with other Armenians but regardless they always date Armenian girls, work for Armenians, and have Armenian friends.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenia for Armenians

I guess Armenian culture just needs to be pushed harder in Armenia.