Armenian Slang & Idioms

[Che_Ka]

I'd encourage you to please go back and re-read my last post. Most of what you just said were attempting to refute points that I never even made. I'm very confused as to how you could so greatly misinterpret what I wrote. I'm gonna go back and read my last post before I make any substantive comments on your post.

[Che_Ka]

I never stated, nor did I imply, that Western Armenians (WAs for short) “overclaim” their identity SOLELY because they are Genocide survivors. I said that was one reason, but that a second reason (which amplifies the effect of the first) is that WAs never returned to Armenia. They never returned to somewhere where everybody was Armenian, where everybody spoke Armenian, etc. Therefore, they have felt this need to “overclaim” their identity – to make sure everyone around them knows that they are Armenian. It’s the fact that they suffered this genocide (which many Hayastantsis also suffered) – but, in addition, they never returned to a majority-Armenian environment. Got it? I’m not stupid or ignorant. I know that a large percentage of Hayastantsis are from Western Armenia. I know that they suffered the same things we suffered. But, the difference becomes those who stayed outside Armenia, and those who went to Armenia. The psychological effect of living in an all-Armenian environment means that you’re not going to feel the need to overlclaim your identity – why? Because, duh, everyone else is Armenian. I thought I made that clear in my original post, which I will repost.

<< Why do we overclaim our Armenianness? WHY DO WE OVERCLAIM OUR ARMENIANNESS?! Um, hello?! Every single “Beirutsi Armenian” is a descendant of a Genocide survivor. And unlike Genocide descendants who were part of the Nerkaght Movement, none of the “Beirutsi Armenians” ever moved back somewhere that is called Armenia. They never again lived somewhere where the daily language was Armenian. EVERY DAY they have had to deal with assimilation. EVERY DAY they have had to live amongst odars. But, oh, inch meghk kordzer enk menk chankernis tapelov menk mer azkuh, mer lezoon, mer mshagoutyuh bahelou. Amot kezi.>>

If that wasn’t clear, I tried to make myself clearer the second time around:

<< My reasoning about Western Armenians and their “overclaiming” wasn’t that we overclaim our Armenianness just because we were victims of the Genocide. I am well aware that many, many Genocide survivors moved to Armenia. My point was that we were victims of Genocide AND ON TOP OF THAT, we have constantly lived on foreign soil. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, no? It’s been 3 generations now that my family has lived in the Spuirk. Hayastantsis don’t yet understand what it means to live in the Spuirk, and why it is that Western Armenians are oh-so vocal and proud to be Armenian. Perhaps you’re the lucky ones.>>

To make this perfectly clear. There are 2 reasons that WAs overclaim their identity. 1) Genocide survivors. 2) Never returned to Armenian environment. Many Hayastantsis also fall under #1. NO HAYASTANTSI falls under #2. Do you see my point now?

Great, moving on.

You claim living in Soviet Armenia was like living in a foreign state. I don’t buy it. The daily language on the streets has always been Armenian. Did you speak Russian at any time other than when you were required to for school? Did you generally speak Russian with the clerk at the store? I’ll bet not. Because everybody knew Armenian. Furthermore, just the fact that everybody is Armenian is enough to make a world of difference. When everyone around you is Armenian, there is no need to overclaim your identity.

Spelling Issue.

You said: << isn’t that you? yes you did say that it was spelled incorrectly... and no NOT all Armenians follow the grammar that the western Armenians follow... the Armenians from IRAN! spell it like we do...>>

I don’t even know where to begin here. I don’t know what you’re trying to say in the first 2 sentences. I said “hnamya” is spelled incorrectly according to the original orthography.

Honey, please do your research. Armenians in Iran use original orthography. Was Iran part of the Soviet Union? No. So then, Iranian Armenians spell like Western Armenians.

Grammar and spelling are two different issues. I don’t know why you brought grammar in, or where it fits in…

Look, in my opinion, Barsgahays have the best of both worlds. They have the original pronunciation of the letters (which WA lacks), and they keep the original spelling (which Hayastantsis lack).

As for grammar. I view EA (Iran/Armenia) and WA as equal. Neither is better than the other. They are dialects that have been derived from the original krapar.

The orthography rules that we have upheld in Western Armenian are the most “authentic” that we know of. Go look at all the documents in the Madenataran. They’re all spelled in original spelling, the one that Western Armenians use. I know, I checked when I was there. I don’t understand why I should accept changes in spelling that were made by Soviets to have our language resemble Latin/Cyrillic languages? Doesn’t make sense to me.

And, you seem to claim that in Armenia, you keep the spelling the way it was written. WRONG. Do you know how many Western Armenian poems I’ve memorized from books published in Yerevan, that were written with Soviet spelling. I even have an essay written by Hagop Baronian called “Shraylootyoon” that is in Western Armenian, but written with Soviet spelling. I’m quite sure Mr. Baronian did not use Soviet spelling.

It goes both ways.

Translations Issue.

I’m not familiar with how you read the Bible in Armenia. In Aramaic? Hebrew? I don’t know. It was translated from its original language into Krapar. From then, it has been recently translated into Ashkharapar so the people could understand it. I’ve read the Bible in WA. I’m not sure there’s anything wrong with that. I don’t know if you’re implying that you read the Bible in Krapar? That’s great if you did.

But maybe you were referring to the spelling issue. I know that the Armenian Church in Armenia refuses to use Soviet spelling, so all Bibles are printed in original spelling (“Western Armenian spelling”) – is this what you’re talking about? Honestly, I don’t know. Either way, Bibles are now being printed in Eastern Armenian with Soviet spelling. I read a story on it a few months ago.

I don’t know what to do with this, and where it fits in….<< the western Armenian writing isn’t the original orthography (the turks burned ALL THE BOOKS in western armenia) some people took whatever they could, however to think that it is somehow more original then eastern Armenian is insane... the people in eastern Armenia spoke the way they did before the genocide and they continue to do so after the genocide... the teachers in western Armenia were all killed and the teachers in eastern Armenia weren’t... the same books that existed in western Armenia also existed in eastern Armenia... most of the books in western Armenia were burned, and none of the (same exact) books in eastern Armenia were burned... we still have them and we use them now...>>

On to translations from EA to WA. Apparently you have decided to believe that a significant portion of Eastern Armenians works are routinely translated into Western Armenian. This is not true. ONCE AGAIN, WE READ AND LEARNED STORIES, POEMS, BOOKS IN EASTERN ARMENIAN. My goodness. Would you like me to mail my textbooks to you?

My point about it not being “our” fault that we don’t have a 100% grasp on the language…I think you completely misunderstood. By living in the Diaspora and being bombarded with other languages and assimilation in general, learning Armenian as you would learn it in Armenia is impossible. It may be possible for the WAs in Syria/Lebanon, where they are not subject to the intense pressures to assimilate, but it’s impossible here in the US. It has nothing to do with the quality of our textbooks or teachers. Let’s assume Armenians educated in Armenia have a 100% grasp of the language. Let’s assume Armenians (all kinds!!!!) in USA have a 70% grasp of the language. Tell me, for which group is it going to be easier to learn the other dialect? Exactly my point. So in the elementary years, WA children in the USA are given translated works because it’s more difficult for them to understand EA than it is for EA children in Armenia to understand WA. This was my point.

This deterioration of the grasp of the language affects Armenians born in the US, whether they are WA or EA. That was another point I had made.

When did I ever say I was forcing Armenians in Armenia to change anything? The only problem I have is with the spelling system. I won’t accept it. I’m sure linguists in Armenia today want the original spelling reinstated. But it costs lots of money to do that. Maybe it will happen someday, who knows. Why does the Church still use original spelling? I’m not saying the Soviet spelling is wrong – I think it was a mistake. I will not accept such a mistake as the correct way to spell. It would be one thing if original spelling was unmanageable and it had to be changed. But it is alive and well, and that is a testament that it is manageable.

To reiterate, I don’t have any problems with EA! I don’t think it’s incomplete, or wrong, or anything else. It is an equal counterpart to WA. My only issue is with the spelling. When I said news stories are translated – I meant the spelling was changed to original spelling. But the dialect remains as is. It is still in Eastern Armenian. We do respect the integrity of the work, which is why it remains in EA.

I would love it if all Armenian schools taught both dialects, like Chamlian does. I WOULD LOVE IT! Because there were students in my class who had to study in WA when their mother tongue was EA. That sucks. And this is one of the reasons why I said Hayastantsis don’t seem to appreciate what it means to be living in the Diaspora. Why haven’t they pushed to have EA taught in all Armenian schools? Or have it taught in more public schools? Something! Maybe they don’t feel that it is so important. Maybe they feel that learning WA in school is sufficient. Perhaps. But that is a difference b/w WA and EA. For me, personally, this language that my mother has passed down to me, is worth a thousand treasures, like Silva Gaboudigian says. It is my lifeline. It is the reason my family has been able to remain Armenian for 90 years now. That is why WAs are so protective and proud of their language/dialect.

And lastly, you think you’ve been stigmatized? You don’t think I’ve been made fun of in Hollywood (behind my back!) for using “gor” and so forth? You don’t think I went to Armenia and a couple of times I was told to speak English rather than WA, either because they couldn’t understand my WA or who knows why. It goes both ways.

[dstyle]

Obviously you've never been to beirut, or haleb, or else you would know if people spoke armenian on the streets, or they lived in a mostly armenian surrounding and what not.

[Che_Ka]

Oh Lord. I've been to Aleppo 3 times; Beirut once. Thank you very much.

Do Armenians in Aleppo get to speak Armenian with the Arab store clerk at the clothing store? Or the Arab students at Aleppo College? Or the Arab worker at the government office? Or the Arab worker at the airport? Or their Arab co-workers?

Of course Armenians in Aleppo and Beirut speak Armenian amongst themselves, in the home and in public. Just like in the US. But that is NOT THE SAME as Armenian being the state language -- where every single person in society speaks Armenian. Where every single person in society IS ARMENIAN.

[Baron Dants]

diar dants it is sooo obvious that you didnt read my post (or the posts that i was responding to) if you think that i think i am more armenian then you, you are crazy, i never said that... again, you didnt read my previous posts or the posts i was responding to...

No no...I know you didn't say that. I was agreeing with you that the whole debate on that topic is useless.

[magdalinka]

Magdalinka: Interesting. We use "yeres mi dar" (don't give face) -- meaning, don't pay attention. Looks like you guys might use the opposite (don't take face) to mean the same thing?

well, "eres arnel " means to be too pushy or spoiled.lol

[magdalinka]

You're not blind and you may be right.! But, based on the content of the post, the ambiguity raised some doubts in me! Of course, not about my gender!
I was joking! Thank you for the support!

i like everybody's posts except for the verrry long and boring ones no metter who they belong to so i might mean you as well.

OK people we speak differently but it doesnt mean that somebody is better. its time to just stop arguing about this question and insulting each other.

[Siamanto]

i like everybody's posts except for the verrry long and boring ones no metter who they belong to so i might mean you as well.

Are you telling that - as in kinder garden - the "shadakhos" ones should be punished? Please, keep in mind that a Web forum is the only place where a "shadakhos" is rewarded...with a star or...!

You just proved that all New Yorkers are mean, not only the Manhattan dwellers that you were complaining about!

PS. How many words would be acceptable to you? How high can you count?

[Crimson Glow]

*tries to think of one*

ummmm.....

what about "achket chela!" That one used to scare me. Like....why is my eye gonna fall out???

[Siamanto]

*tries to think of one*

ummmm.....

what about "achket chela!" That one used to scare me. Like....why is my eye gonna fall out???

Yes. "Achke yellel" is the opposite "achk mdnal."
In fact, if translated literally, all of them are weird and funny!
One wonders what they had in mind? I like them!