Half Armenians

[Lamb Boy]

Re: Half Armenians

I didn't even know Armenians cared about what percentage Armenian you were until I came here and was told repeatedly that I was a "halfie". Right Tom? ;-)

I really don't care how people perceive me. I cook Armenian food that is better than most can make because I used to be a professional chef. I look about a billion times more Armenian than anything else so I get the weird eye in airports. I think Armenian women are THE HOTTEST WOMEN ON THE PLANET, but I don't actually know any (lmao)!! Uhh starting to learn the language. My Grandparents both came over during the genocide years and my Dad videotaped their stories several years before they passed. Their collective stories always gave me great pride in my heritage and motivates me to try and become something greater ever day. I would never consider myself anything other than Armenian and all my friends know what I am as well because I let everybody know ... because I am proud. We are truly a great people with long and honorable history.

My split is 50% Armenian, 25% English and 25% Irish. Looking at all the "halfies" around our culture just shows we are some lovey dovey people HAHA!! We take all kinds but you (Odar ... sp) will be assimilated and not the other way around! Why? Because our culture is far superior HAHAHAAA!!! So true ...

[Alexzan]

Re: Half Armenians

I didn't even know Armenians cared about what percentage Armenian you were until I came here and was told repeatedly that I was a "halfie". Right Tom? ;-)

I really don't care how people perceive me. I cook Armenian food that is better than most can make because I used to be a professional chef. I look about a billion times more Armenian than anything else so I get the weird eye in airports. I think Armenian women are THE HOTTEST WOMEN ON THE PLANET, but I don't actually know any (lmao)!! Uhh starting to learn the language. My Grandparents both came over during the genocide years and my Dad videotaped their stories several years before they passed. Their collective stories always gave me great pride in my heritage and motivates me to try and become something greater ever day. I would never consider myself anything other than Armenian and all my friends know what I am as well because I let everybody know ... because I am proud. We are truly a great people with long and honorable history.

My split is 50% Armenian, 25% English and 25% Irish. Looking at all the "halfies" around our culture just shows we are some lovey dovey people HAHA!! We take all kinds but you (Odar ... sp) will be assimilated and not the other way around! Why? Because our culture is far superior HAHAHAAA!!! So true ...

My friend.. That is pretty Armenian to me =)
As for me.. I don't believe I look Armenian though Im full
Redish hair
Light skin
xD
Im surprised.. No half Greek half Armenians?

[Virgil]

Re: Half Armenians

There is no such thing as "half" Armenian, if the person in question is fully Armenian by character, act and ideology. Like enker Azad said, if you have any amount of Armenian heritage, and you feel Armenian, and you concern yourself with Armenia, than you are 100% Armenian. This does not mean, however, that I am encouraging mixed marriages. The best bet in raising Armenian children is by sticking to your kind. Simple as that.

I agree with you, but I don't consider half Armenians as Armenian. As much as I want to beleive half Armenians are full Armenian the reality is they are half Armenian, this is why we call somone of mixed paratage "half Armenian" and not "full Armenian" and furthermore, this is why the other half refers to this person as "half xyz".

Obviously, this is based on many factors include my personal experience and my deep knowledge of Armenian history, but most importantly, two reasons, the first being that I do not want the Armenian identity to be second to any other identity in that I don't want the Armenian identity to be consider, for a lack of a better term, a religion. Were not a religion, were a ethnic group, first and foremost.

Second, I agree that identity is socially constructed and the link that develops your identity is the interaction between a child and his or her parent. The fact of the matter the knowledge that is passed down by a mother and father to their child is the most important knowledge (To large extent it is directly the ideology of the people) that a Armenian can posses, no book or "social interaction" outside the family unit can replace this knowledge even though many Armenians try to substitute this, which then leads to assimilation and eventually, extinction.

And by the way, I don't consider Armenian by blood the reason why mixed marriages are wrong. The reason why mixed marriages are wrong because statistically it increases the chances of assimilation and please don't say somthing like "well we can send a half Armenian to Armenian school" because you are just degrading your own identity. Essentially, the argument most make for this idea is that by doing so we are preserving our identity because our numbers increase in which I point to the fact that ethnicity is measure of quality as much as it is a measure of quantity. Every mix dilutes the person into nothingness and furthermore, every mix decreases that persons connection to the Armenian state.

However, to be fair, I don't consider colonized Armenians as Armenians as well, colonized as in that they are Armenian, but are exposed to foreign cultural elements. Any Armenian that identifies with pop culture versus the Armenian culture is not really a "better" Armenian, everyone exposed to pop culture or foreign culture is losing their identity, this is the reality.

Essentially, what has occured is that Armenians from around world take their culture to foreign lands and pickle it, it does not develop, it does not grow, it does not improve, it stays the same and stagnates. There is no pure Armenian identity outside the homeland, your Armenian if you are in Armenia, outside you are of Armenian ancestory no matter what percent of blood you have, this is the reality that Armenians have to admit to in order for them to better their homeland.

The falsity that marrying a Zebra and having a half Zebra and half Armenian kid is the equivalent of full blooded Armenian is like comparing apples and oranges. Furthermore, the idea that in your life foreign elements will not interfere with your cultural ways is also not the equivalent of living in Armenia and developing your Armenian identity. This is the reality of our situation as foreign Armenians. Anyone that tells you otherwise has personal motive, on the other hand, I do not have any motive other then telling you the truth.

Lastly, the idea that you can push a child towards the Armenian half is in my opinion racist and prejudice in motive. I have known so many mothers and fathers of half Armenian children that tell me in private that it is disgusting how Armenians try to impose a identity on these children and ignore that these children have another half. In which I have to agree, I feel the actions of pushing a identity onto a child is wrong no matter how the end justifies the means.

Lav elle, mi arek este yev tsze sharkek "metza mitk", yec esh chem du el esh ches.

[Virgil]

Re: Half Armenians

Oh incidently, I don't reply to people anymore, if you disagree with me please don't try to "convince me", really, please don't, I have heard and debated with everyone regarding this, in the end I am right. If you want to debate with me, send me a private message, I am not in the freak show business, I just call it how it is, if you are smart you will listen.

Also, on a socio-political level, you can not compare American values with Armenian values. American values in Armenia will lead to a state that has foreign majority (i.e. dual citizenship law that was passed will lead to a influx of immigrants from improvised countries seeking asylum, overtime these will lead to severe demographic changes that will threaten the self determination of Armenians, this was a sham law created so that corrupt politicians and citizens of Armenia can funnel out liqued assets and still retain a citzenship. Any amatuer political scientist will tell you that a state like Armenia will not benefit from dual citizenship because (1) it has no need for immigrant workers and (2) the geographic proximity of Armenia to hostitle states will allow these states to send their populations into Armenia under the disguse of refugees. There are more reasons then this, but I don't like discuss this stuff online, my ideas are "radical" as one Armenian told me once, but the reality is my ideas are rooted in common sense.)

Also, the racial dichotomy of half Armenians is also a important factor. Yes, I understand circumstance, I understand compassion, yes, you live in a region where your access to Armenians is limited, this is fine, really, but you can not expect Armenians in Armenia to welcome any racial (Race as in black, asian, and ... etc.) extremes into their society. Armenian society is monoethnic and monoracial, therefore, it would be a real stretch to bring a half-Asian and or half-black into this society and expect these people to consider him or her as a Armenian. Understand this is a rooted reality of human nature. In the United States the tactic is to racially homogonize the population in order to still maintain control over them, Armenia on the other hand is blessed by being monoethnic and monoracial, they have no road blocks connecting with one another. And if you think I am "paranoid" ask your state representitive what he or she thinks about teaching Spanish or a second language at school. They are as if not more concerned about these topics then I am, but on the surface they do not show it, but go to any blue blooded American town and they will tell you the realities of the United States.

Just remember, logically, fragmenting our communities will cause the unity that we have to erude over time and also, just a warning, at least I have a clean concious that I told my people whats coming, peace.

[Azad]

Re: Half Armenians

Virgil, most Armenians do agree with you. The question should be asked if you do you have a LOGICAL solution a preventative one from assimilation and not stating the obvious by insulting some of us. For I am 100% Armenian and do place Armenians with lesser % in a higher position than myself for they will have to make even a harder effort on retaining our identity and ignoring insults.

[Azad]

Re: Half Armenians

I would never consider myself anything other than Armenian

Lamb Boy, you are the true Armenian, the Survivor. You are the symbol of our Diasporan hope. Keep the good work and try to marry Armenian if you can or at least pass the message to your children.

[Virgil]

Re: Half Armenians

Virgil, most Armenians do agree with you. The question should be asked if you do you have a LOGICAL solution a preventative one from assimilation and not stating the obvious by insulting some of us. For I am 100% Armenian and do place Armenians with lesser % in a higher position than myself for they will have to make even a harder effort on retaining our identity and ignoring insults.

Reread what I wrote, its in there. I apologize if I insulted anyone, but I am just fed up with this topic coming up on a constant basis, there are more important decisions to be made. Personally, the choices individuals make should not be swayed by me or anyone else, I am not here to validate anything or condemn anyone, this is not my intention, however, if this question comes up and if I am there, I will make it a point to repeat this seemingly obvious answer that apprently so obvious that out of all the posters, only two posters (including myself!) had to restate this obvious answer that apprently everyone agrees with.

Which begs the quesiton, if Armenians as you say are "aware" and agree with me "100%", why are we having this debate? I know why, because for Armenians the truth hurts, the realities of immigration, asismilation, and extinction are conviniently relabeled so that these decisions themselves are less painful to make.

With regards to my opinions, only Armenians that are afraid to confront the truth oppose me, personally, when you realize the truth and live your life based on this truth, every decision you make takes into consideration both the benefits and the consequences instead of denying the very fact that there are consequences to every decision. Essentially, I can not live my life a lie, you can not walk around and pretend the sky is red when it is actually blue, its more liberating accepting the realities and working towards a solution as opposed to what you and everyone else is doing by ignoring the problem or relabeling the problem in a more appealing fashion.

My solution is simple and its in my comments, reread what I wrote, its a VERY simple solution, one that most Armenians know is the right decision, but because it will involve many hardships and sacrifices, they do not even consider it (Saddly, including myself, but I am not the worst offender, I inherited my offense.).

Before I begin let me make one point very clear, this idea that there exists a spiritual Armenia or what I refer to as the biggest Armenian lie (The Saroyan Quote AKA "Two Armenians meet up and create a new Armenia") is a again relabeling of a older decision to make the initial decision of immigrating out of the geographical space known as Armenia more appealing. The reality is that we are human beings and we only understand ownership of the tangible, there exists no intangible nation and people, the borders of any state are determined by its population. When the last two Armenians leave the greographic proximity of historic Armenia they can not create a new Armenia.

I am not going to restate my solution, its obvious. However, what I will do is highlight my concerns, maybe if you live in my world you will understand my point of view a little bit more clearly:

Armenia (Total Armenian population, about 3 million)
Population growth rate: -0.129% (2007 est.)
Birth rate: 12.34 births/1,000 population (2007 est.)
...

Azerbaijan (Total Azeri population, about 8 million)
Population growth rate: 0.688% (2007 est.)
Birth rate: 17.47 births/1,000 population (2007 est.)
...

Turkey (Total Turkish Population, about 40 million)
Population growth rate: 1.04% (2007 est.)
Birth rate: 16.4 births/1,000 population (2007 est.)

...

What does this mean? Assuming we keep the growth rates constant and over a maturity of 30 years, the Turkish and Azeri, populations, respectivly, will have matured to roughly 53 million and 9.5 million, while the Armenian population will have decreased to about 2.8 million. Take this to the infinite power and you will see that within a few generations the Turkish and Azeri populations will not only outnumber Armenians, but specifically the Azeri population will be the dominate population in the region. Just a bit a of a reality check. The truth is that Armenians are having as many kids as their neighbors but immigration is taking its toll for various obvious reasons attributed to economic reasons. But if I had to make a important decision like this, I would rather know the truth then pretend that everything is peacy. It is far more easier to immigrate pretending that you can create a new Armenia versus knowing that the entire future a of people rests in the decision you make.

[Azad]

Re: Half Armenians

Virgil, your approach has some flows. You are constantly focusing on the present Armenian “immigration” from Armenia, implying that the assimilative Diaspora is only the product of that migration. You should take in consideration a century old Diaspora that got scattered all around the world with very harsh survival conditions. Puting a burden of guilt in the name of “confront the truth” on posters that retained the Armenian identity and are making an afford to connect on forums is not a very positive or encouraging accomplishment. And yet you went comparing some “puritan” Armenian survival against the orgy of turkic bazar growth. I am having hard time fallowing your logic of growth and survival in an all exclusive Armenian “race” when the world is telling us things work otherwise. Excluding some Asian countries, I can not think of one single country or people that survived as long as we did and are not on the verge of extinction WITHOUT accepting certain adaptations. I would love to keep us an all exclusive “Japan” the reality is that we are not an Island. Even questioning the taboo ... What is the importance of the Armenian survival? I personally do not believe it is a certain genetic looks. It is the survival of our History, our Language, our Geography and the Armenian perceived behavioral "good" that we can spread to others in the name of being Armenian and making them Armenians and not turks.

[Virgil]

Re: Half Armenians

Virgil, your approach has some flows. You are constantly focusing on the present Armenian “immigration” from Armenia, implying that the assimilative Diaspora is only the product of that migration. You should take in consideration a century old Diaspora that got scattered all around the world with very harsh survival conditions. Puting a burden of guilt in the name of “confront the truth” on posters that retained the Armenian identity and are making an afford to connect on forums is not a very positive or encouraging accomplishment. And yet you went comparing some “puritan” Armenian survival against the orgy of turkic bazar growth. I am having hard time fallowing your logic of growth and survival in an all exclusive Armenian “race” when the world is telling us things work otherwise. Excluding some Asian countries, I can not think of one single country or people that survived as long as we did and are not on the verge of extinction WITHOUT accepting certain adaptations. I would love to keep us an all exclusive “Japan” the reality is that we are not an Island. Even questioning the taboo ... What is the importance of the Armenian survival? I personally do not believe it is a certain genetic looks. It is the survival of our History, our Language, our Geography and the Armenian perceived behavioral "good" that we can spread to others in the name of being Armenian and making them Armenians and not turks.

"Genetic look"? I did not mention anything about a "genetic look". Reread my post and my points are very logical. There is no illogic to it, Armenians are decreasing in population in the homeland, a homeland that is surrounded by two hostile states that want to annex at least the southern tip of Armenia. In addition, the Armenians outside Armenia are assimilating, and you have no incentive from the people outside to migrate back into Armenia because of these ridiculous ideas that you can be a gypsy without any consequences to your identity. Lets get somthing straight, there is no debate on this, the independence of the Armenian state and their self determination will be lost if this trend continues. Artsahk will be lost if this trend continues. There is no other conclusion, this reality has to be accepted if you want to be serious about Armenia and the future of the Armenian state.

Regarding the "burden of guilt", there is no "burden of guilt", there is a emphasis on responsiblity, at least bare minimum a acceptence of the relaties we find ourselves in. If you have a burden of guilt, I have it as well, the only difference is that I don't come on forums and make asinine comments like "Were all Armenian", "If you have no blood in you, you can still be Armenian", and or "If you have 1% blood you are still Armenian", what kind of whack job says this kinds of things? A pretty naive one. Sorry, my conclusion is still my conclusion, only individuals that are in a state of denail succomb to saying such statements, a level headed and intelligent person, considering all the facts, will NEVER EVER say such statements. As a full blooded Armenian my identity is marginalized, please don't insult my intelligence by saying otherwise, furthermore, please don't come here and pollute the minds of Armenians with these ridiculous statements, this is not the truth, the truth is in what I say, this is the truth, I have no motive other then telling the truth, while the motive for these people is to have a clean concious about their decisions and not consider the reality of the situation the Armenian state and people find themselves in.

[Azad]

Re: Half Armenians

As usual Virgil you are all over the place. If I only didn’t know any better ... I can tell from your constant focus on ONLY the present Armenian migration from Armenia is making me conclude your true concerns are about the present government of Armenia and your true objective is about blaming the present leadership in Armenia more than facing a reality of a Diasopra that has been for over a century in foreign lands. Wonder why you even brought up the “I have no motive”??? Are you trying to justify something?

Concerning the “If you have 1% blood you are still Armenian”... You should be blind to think that we are some homogeneous looking entity. Over all we do have some defining characteristics looks ... In a larger Armenian group we do have extreme variations in our looks and that variation did not happen recently it happened by some of us only having 1% blood from the original “Armenians”. Virgil spare me the old school book of waving the puritanism flag and face a reality on saving the pieces and extending our existence. And yes a 1% Armenian could extend our existence sometimes longer than the melting 100%. And yes a 1% Armenian can return to Armenia and become Armenian sometimes better than the 100%.