One voice, revenge, hate...

[sue35205]

intellectual challenge!

EVERYONE PLEASE stop posting such disturbing images. They don't add anything to the discussion and they're averting everyone who is trying read.

My good friend "Kharpert", you are civil and honorable man, as the wording of you warning reflects.
However as an American who believes in US-Fist Amendment, the Freedom of Speech, I could fully appreciate the logic of such censorship and warning for posting of such meritorious “CARTOON”s due to perceived offence toward my good fellow “cosmos2”, who is a good standing member, in violation of the Forum-Rules. But, when you combine the un-censored content and words of the good fellow “cosmos2” to censored content of my, merely, “CARTOON”s, respectfully, it renders your judgment an acknowledgement of weakness, lack of self confidence, and a wave of victory to Turks.

Such censorship convey the impression that Turks have won many times over, since they have made you so sensitive that you can not appreciate any hummer that may remotely be associated with such social intercourse, in the civil context of Free Speech. There is a saying, “those who take matters seriously are only destined to be taken un-seriously by the others”.

You do come across an Honorable Spiritual Intellectual who is over confident in his intellectual capability. So, I want to formally challenge you to a Chess Game, moves communicated by PM. And, the loser of the chess game will formally acknowledge his possible intellectual shortcomings.And, since age comes before beauty, you may have the first move.

Susan, the American.

[Gavur]

Freedom of speech and memories

I will give you guys a personal account of why i am so passionate about freedom of speech of all place Turkey a place I was born and raised untill the age of 12 some 45 years ago a place I havent been back to.
You might say why,why haven't I been back to the place I fondly remember as old Byzans? I can give you many reasons why.Mainly the fondness I felt wasn't because I felt Istanbul was Armenia who my self is, it's because it was a feeling of being a part of a city that was multi cultural and multilanguage "THE CITY" as it was called by the Greeks was a testimony of history of those walls that protected what was the capital of the world for generations was something special and I felt a part of that.My rude awakining was the first time I tried to make friends with a Turkish kid and always the same thing would happen later on at a tender age I knew it was cast my fate that is,as long as I used my real name I would always be the "OTHER" another words I had to pretend to be a Turk, being a Turkish citizen would not be enough.This realization was a stark contrast to the way I was raised on the backdrop of this magnificently live city because I have allready subscribed to the Turkish customs, values and way of thinking except THIS I wasn't prepared for.Back then we had one hero Ataturk we didn't even know who Talat,enver was and then there was Ismet Inonu who reportedly said "If my right hand is Armenian I would cut it off"now this was a colliage that helped our hero Ataturk save this country that we lived in "happily" ,from the "Foreigner" (or was it the "Foreigner" who set up a scenario that arranged an honorable defeat with a few easy victory's with lesser powers and setup a puppet country that serves their own national interests)Well thats when I understood Turkey has 2 faces one for the "Foreigner" one for their own .I was looking at the wrong face.The face that was facing me and "Other's"like me was that cold cruel handless ghost of re-incarnated butcher that will start with first character assasination and can be escalated to your demise if you don't submit and be a Turk not just a citizen of Turkey.

I have some Turkish and some Armenian cousins they are in the Diaspora also .I see them from time to time and yet this subject is never discussed among us.Some people don't,need or inclined to know what happened in the past and I think most people are like that ,so much for human nature but the state has to guarantee their rights so when they do want to inquire in a subject that subject is not banned.Only the creator is the Truth the light and the way theres no other entity that can be allowed to implement their short term propogandistic ways .States do not and shall not have a right to monopolize the truth Because the truth in it's own nature has always an unprescribed and unusual way of presenting itself (Thats how it is self-evident)unmonitored and unrestricted.It's up to the individual how he is going to "Handle the Truth"and he should be free and unfettered.
Then maybe just maybe I can have a comfortible discussion about our mutual past with my cousins.

[sue35205]

Gavur,

I was touched by the pain beneath your words, a pain coming from subjugation to prejudice, discrimination, and unjust prosecution. I bet, in the real life, you are a narrator, a writer.

You may not be an American, but the chore values in your hart and sole, are the same values which warmed the harts and soles of the Founding Fathers who drafted the U.S. Constitution, a social craving for a social fabric with“Liberty, Justice, and Peruse of Happiness”.

[TurQ]

Gavur

ALthough I find lots of things to criticize you(I mean in general not this post in particular), but I always thought you have a bitter past/memories that make you so harsh in your criticism. I think this post gives some explanation..

Yes it is true that Turkey has 2 faces, like all other countries. But this is not Turkey's willfull choice. Today you still can see the traces of trauma of WW-I and the occupation. Unfortunetly Armenians and other minorities paid for this trauma. This has to stop and we cant live with this trauma anymore, eventhough the foreign powers have no good intentions for us, I think Turkey is strong enough to defend it self not only militarily but also diplomatically. And for some circles it became a habit to produce the "OTHER" in Turkey, in order just to maintain their interests(most of it related with corruption). Love it or leave it they say. I always doubted their Turkishness when they say like that. Today when you ask people you'll see that everybody has a reason to feel otherness in some ways, but they would also say they and the state are threatened by the "OTHER".
Rightists used to say the state and nation is threatened by Leftists. Now the leftists say the state and nation is threatened by conservatives, nationalist and religous people, and this very leftist people ask for military intervention. This vicous cycle has to stop, and it really is getting boring.

I am living outside of Turkey for several years, I dont think I am a diaspora, but still living in a foreign country makes you feel the other and I know the taste.
I do appologize you as a proud member of Turkish nation that we made you feel the "OTHER".
I was in Istanbul until last monday, after spending my last morning in Cengelkoy's famous cafeterias on Bosphorus, it was really hard to leave, eventhough I know I'll be back. I know your situation is alot different but I hope some day you'll be able to go back there.

I will give you guys a personal account of why i am so passionate about freedom of speech of all place Turkey a place I was born and raised untill the age of 12 some 45 years ago a place I havent been back to.
You might say why,why haven't I been back to the place I fondly remember as old Byzans? I can give you many reasons why.Mainly the fondness I felt wasn't because I felt Istanbul was Armenia who my self is, it's because it was a feeling of being a part of a city that was multi cultural and multilanguage "THE CITY" as it was called by the Greeks was a testimony of history of those walls that protected what was the capital of the world for generations was something special and I felt a part of that.My rude awakining was the first time I tried to make friends with a Turkish kid and always the same thing would happen later on at a tender age I knew it was cast my fate that is,as long as I used my real name I would always be the "OTHER" another words I had to pretend to be a Turk, being a Turkish citizen would not be enough.This realization was a stark contrast to the way I was raised on the backdrop of this magnificently live city because I have allready subscribed to the Turkish customs, values and way of thinking except THIS I wasn't prepared for.Back then we had one hero Ataturk we didn't even know who Talat,enver was and then there was Ismet Inonu who reportedly said "If my right hand is Armenian I would cut it off"now this was a colliage that helped our hero Ataturk save this country that we lived in "happily" ,from the "Foreigner" (or was it the "Foreigner" who set up a scenario that arranged an honorable defeat with a few easy victory's with lesser powers and setup a puppet country that serves their own national interests)Well thats when I understood Turkey has 2 faces one for the "Foreigner" one for their own .I was looking at the wrong face.The face that was facing me and "Other's"like me was that cold cruel handless ghost of re-incarnated butcher that will start with first character assasination and can be escalated to your demise if you don't submit and be a Turk not just a citizen of Turkey.

I have some Turkish and some Armenian cousins they are in the Diaspora also .I see them from time to time and yet this subject is never discussed among us.Some people don't,need or inclined to know what happened in the past and I think most people are like that ,so much for human nature but the state has to guarantee their rights so when they do want to inquire in a subject that subject is not banned.Only the creator is the Truth the light and the way theres no other entity that can be allowed to implement their short term propogandistic ways .States do not and shall not have a right to monopolize the truth Because the truth in it's own nature has always an unprescribed and unusual way of presenting itself (Thats how it is self-evident)unmonitored and unrestricted.It's up to the individual how he is going to "Handle the Truth"and he should be free and unfettered.
Then maybe just maybe I can have a comfortible discussion about our mutual past with my cousins.

[Vogelgrippe]

I will give you guys a personal account of why i am so passionate about freedom of speech of all place Turkey a place I was born and raised untill the age of 12 some 45 years ago a place I havent been back to.
You might say why,why haven't I been back to the place I fondly remember as old Byzans? I can give you many reasons why.Mainly the fondness I felt wasn't because I felt Istanbul was Armenia who my self is, it's because it was a feeling of being a part of a city that was multi cultural and multilanguage "THE CITY" as it was called by the Greeks was a testimony of history of those walls that protected what was the capital of the world for generations was something special and I felt a part of that.My rude awakining was the first time I tried to make friends with a Turkish kid and always the same thing would happen later on at a tender age I knew it was cast my fate that is,as long as I used my real name I would always be the "OTHER" another words I had to pretend to be a Turk, being a Turkish citizen would not be enough.This realization was a stark contrast to the way I was raised on the backdrop of this magnificently live city because I have allready subscribed to the Turkish customs, values and way of thinking except THIS I wasn't prepared for.Back then we had one hero Ataturk we didn't even know who Talat,enver was and then there was Ismet Inonu who reportedly said "If my right hand is Armenian I would cut it off"now this was a colliage that helped our hero Ataturk save this country that we lived in "happily" ,from the "Foreigner" (or was it the "Foreigner" who set up a scenario that arranged an honorable defeat with a few easy victory's with lesser powers and setup a puppet country that serves their own national interests)Well thats when I understood Turkey has 2 faces one for the "Foreigner" one for their own .I was looking at the wrong face.The face that was facing me and "Other's"like me was that cold cruel handless ghost of re-incarnated butcher that will start with first character assasination and can be escalated to your demise if you don't submit and be a Turk not just a citizen of Turkey.

I have some Turkish and some Armenian cousins they are in the Diaspora also .I see them from time to time and yet this subject is never discussed among us.Some people don't,need or inclined to know what happened in the past and I think most people are like that ,so much for human nature but the state has to guarantee their rights so when they do want to inquire in a subject that subject is not banned.Only the creator is the Truth the light and the way theres no other entity that can be allowed to implement their short term propogandistic ways .States do not and shall not have a right to monopolize the truth Because the truth in it's own nature has always an unprescribed and unusual way of presenting itself (Thats how it is self-evident)unmonitored and unrestricted.It's up to the individual how he is going to "Handle the Truth"and he should be free and unfettered.
Then maybe just maybe I can have a comfortible discussion about our mutual past with my cousins.

Gavur,

After I had read your post about your childhood in Istanbul, I also copied & sent it to my father who is probably same age as you are (born in 1948). An immigrants’ child from Macedonia, who was born in Izmir, my father came to Istanbul in order to attend university. During summer weekends, they used to take the passenger ships to Kinaliada and Burgazada, which were (and still, though to a lesser extent) populated by Armenians and Greeks.

Boarding the ship, and hearing most of the passengers speaking their native tongues (Armenian and Greek), my father and his friends used to bully around and shout “Vatandas Turkce konus! (Folks, speak Turkish!). He now admits that they did not do it because they cared about folks, speaking, or Turkish, but only wanted to create some tension.

Looking back, my father always thought how backward, disrespectful, and chauvinistic their attitude was, even though they were supposed to educated people. As a believer in the suffering of Armenians, he always used to say (and still says) what uneducated and ignorant people would do to minorities, given that even ‘educated’ people like his generation’s youth behaved so disrespectfully towards minorities.

He therefore sends you his sincere sympathy and apologies, and hopes that you still visit the country of your birth one day. Needless to say, I totally share his belief and opinions.

[sue35205]

May God Love Fellow Kharpert!

<----Click to See the Transformation.

However, if his account is hijacked, then the moron who conspired has his picture behind the above, click.

[Tails]

sue35205, maybe you didn't realize that for the past week Kharpert's account has been hacked. Someone hijacked his account and he is unable to post.

[sue35205]

Thank you fellow Tails for your kind advice.

Hi TurQ,

1- Your sensitivity in the context of the topic is highly appreciable and reflects your humanity. However, I was wondering if this sensitivity is evoked, lately, since you are Turk living in a Western Country and Culture that in some subtle way has scarred you for not being culturally congruent to their values. But, there is a big difference between you and fellow Gavur. You, in wisdom, decided to live Turkey by will for better opportunities in West, but fellow Gavur was subjected to all that he narrated in the country that he was born in!

............the foreign powers have no good intentions for us, I think Turkey is strong enough to defend it self not only militarily but also diplomatically. And for some circles it became a habit to produce the "OTHER" in Turkey, in order just to maintain their interests(most of it related with corruption). ................

2- I was curious, if by foreign power you mean ?

Spoken like a true Turk, you want our money, but not our presence? We are not in your country to protect you. Our presence was due to our National Security and is to, primarily, protect others. After all, isn’t Turkey, with delight, pocketing our $$$$$Bilions$$$$ in exchange for our bases?

[Turanist]

2- I was curious, if by foreign power you mean ?

Spoken like a true Turk, you want our money, but not our presence? We are not in your country to protect you. Our presence was due to our National Security and is to, primarily, protect others. After all, isn’t Turkey, with delight, pocketing our $$$$$Bilions$$$$ in exchange for our bases?

And when Iran makes nuclear bombs we will be on the Alliance side and will help Israel and USA . then Azerbayjan will have indepandence from Iranian terrorists. a toast for US-Turkish relation may the good times roll.

keep the money come as well

[Tails]

When Iran makes nuclear bombs, the "Alliance" is going to xxxx its pants, and no western country is going to be able to touch Iran.