Greek Genocide of Asia Minor

[1.5 million]

I find it highly amusing that racist swine like Sion and Armenoid insinuate that I am some kind of discredit to Armenians and that I am somehow ignorant and insensitive in regards to historic events and there relevancy. And shame on you both - letting your irrational hatred of Jews lead you to glorify Nazi Germany - when you are an Armenian - who should be more understanding of the type of forces that commit such injustice and persecute (and destroy) those who are vulnerable.

And unlike most Turks I don't feel the need to make excuses for every mistake, injustice or questionable action commited by my nation - the USA. I would never condone what was done in Dresden nor many other acts done in the name of defeating the enemy or what have you. However at the same time I could not sit idly by while some German insinuated that we were ultimatly at fault (for Germany's destruction in WWII)...much like Turks blaming Russia or Britian for the destruction of WWI...

BTW - Shindler's list is a masterpiece of a book/movie and the relience on fact and recreation of the detail of such is amazing. If you are not deeply touched and moved by the book or movie you are not a human being - you are just contemptable filfth.

[Kharpert]

Your lack of knowledge is a shame for an Armenian.

I wouldn't be talking about the Moderators, because they are not going to happy when they see you said that.

The Moderators have more sympathy for those that get their history straight.

[imported_skhara]

I agree in part, but not entirely with Armenoid. First thing you guys have to consider is that history is always written by the victor. There is a famous quote by Winston Churchill “History will be kind to me for I intend to write it”.

I strongly oppose simplistic non-detailed explanations of historical events or pinning things on a single individual. As an individual, I march to my own drum.

The second world war was an escallation of events. My conclusions are these:

Bolshevism was absolutely a threat to Germany and would have devoured Germany like it devoured Russia. However, Germans had imperialist aspirations. You have to really understand the buildup in European history. Before the German unification, the German people were in a disunited mess. During the 30 years war, the Swedes, the Austro-Hungarians, the English, and the French absolutely devasted the German country-side and land. At the end of the conlict, there likely was not a single lush medow left in Germany. These events were certainly in the psyche of the German people for many generations to come. As the Germans slowly recovered from the many years of division and devastation of their lands, they grew more powerful and started to take revenge against their former agressor. In wars, they defeated the Austo-Hungarians and repeatedly beat up on the French. As the German nation grew to a major European power, the German people yearned for their "place in the sun". The English did not want to share that sun with anyone. Anyway, I can go on and on and it can take a lot of time to write, but WWII was a direct result of WWI. When Hitler came to power, he appealed to the elementary patriotism of the German people. The Germans were sick and tired of being robbed and humiliated and when a leader came to end this, they followed. Anyway, the events of persecution of the Germans in Poland is certainly true, but the war wasn't just about Bolshevism. The third Reich dreamed of an empire -- the third reich looked down on the Slavic peoples and the third Reich craved the fertile lands of the Ukraine. By drawing into a conflict with the Russian people, the third reich, started to dig its grave.

[Kharpert]

Armenoid, all you've done is admit your historical ignorance. Now go make fun of kids somewhere else, okay?

=================

Good post, skhara. However, I'd like to say that while it's certainly true no one individual is responsible for the start of World War II, it was Germany that had started the war, and it was Hitler making all the executive decisions for Germany. I'd also like to say that World War II hasn't been written only by the "winners." There have been numerous viewpoints on World War II, its causes, and its effects. While it may be true that the oppression of other European nations had made Germany ripe for fascism, it is not and NEVER will be an excuse for Genocide.

[Kharpert]

America has never systematically slaughtered 11 million Poles, Jews, homosexuals, etc.

How can you consider the Nazis to be "no better or worse" than any other nation? Do you consider the Young Turks to be "no better or worse"? They essentially did the same thing; they promoted racism and nationalism and prompted the slaughter of millions of minorities. And if you refuse to believe the Holocaust for political reasons, I'm forced to conclude that justice must not be very important to you. You sound like the president of Iran

[Krunchy]

America has never systematically slaughtered 11 million Poles, Jews, homosexuals, etc.

How can you consider the Nazis to be "no better or worse" than any other nation?

How is it that those three groups are the only ones you mention? Are they the only ones that matter?

Do you consider the Young Turks to be "no better or worse"? They essentially did the same thing; they promoted racism and nationalism and prompted the slaughter of millions of minorities.

I want you to answer that question before anyone else does.

And if you refuse to believe the Holocaust for political reasons, I'm forced to conclude that justice must not be very important to you. You sound like the president of Iran

What happened in WWII has no meaning to this forum nor is it a proper subject for discussion. Everything posted here should only relate to the topic "Armenian Genocide."

[Kharpert]

Krunchy, quit nitpicking. You know very well that I put an "etc" at the end of that list for a reason.

Let me make my stance very clear: There is no excuse for any nation, government, group, or entity to commit genocide, and those that do have an equal standing in history for me: Genocidal. The Young Turks are just as guilty as the Nazis, the Serbs under Milosevic, and all others. I consider them all historically damned.

And if you don't mind, what happened in the WWII has great relevance to both Armenia and to Genocides in general.

[Krunchy]

x

[Kharpert]

The Bosnian Genocide was a heartless attempt at ethnic cleansing. I'm not sure what your teacher or TV tells you, but I personally do a bit of reading.
Bosnian Genocide #1
Bosnian Genocide #2
Bosnian Genocide #3
Bosnian Genocide #4
Bosnian Genocide #5

Krunchy, I find it odd that you support recognition of the Armenian Genocide, but when it comes to any other Genocide in the world you turn deaf ears to the suffering and become a skeptic. I don't see why you think Armenians deserve this recognition more than anyone else. I'm an Armenian and my first priority is the recognition of the Armenian Genocide, but at least I have the deceny as a human being to recognize the plight and suffering of other ethnicities that have gone through similar tragedies. Each and every one deserves a critical review.

I said it once, I'll say it again: Both the Nazis and the Young Turks are guilty of Genocide.
Nobody likes a denialist, Krunchy.

[Krunchy]

The Bosnian Genocide was a heartless attempt at ethnic cleansing. I'm not sure what your teacher or TV tells you, but I personally do a bit of reading.
Bosnian Genocide #1
Bosnian Genocide #2
Bosnian Genocide #3
Bosnian Genocide #4
Bosnian Genocide #5

Krunchy, I find it odd that you support recognition of the Armenian Genocide, but when it comes to any other Genocide in the world you turn deaf ears to the suffering and become a skeptic. I don't see why you think Armenians deserve this recognition more than anyone else. I'm an Armenian and my first priority is the recognition of the Armenian Genocide, but at least I have the deceny as a human being to recognize the plight and suffering of other ethnicities that have gone through similar tragedies. Each and every one deserves a critical review.

I said it once, I'll say it again: Both the Nazis and the Young Turks are guilty of Genocide.
Nobody likes a denialist, Krunchy.

Do you think that in order to validate the AG, you have to accept every single claim of "genocide" no matter how false? What has one got to do with the other?

Most people throughout the world think that the court in the Hague is a kangaroo court and with considerable justification.

By being part of a LIE, you do yourself no favor because then people will think that if you are willing to LIE about one genocide, then you must also be lying about the AG.

Again, there was NO genocide committed by Serbs at any time. In fact, Serbs are allies of Armenians and what do you think these people would feel if they see Armenians accuse them falsely of genocide?

I submit once again that you are an uneducated child who has been spoon fed a bunch of crap and you have shown absolutely no signs of independent thinking.

What you have given as evidence are unproven accusations, there has been NO conviction. You were still in diapers when that supposedly happened. You need to stop only looking at one side and believing what you are told. You need to always question and inform yourself.

I stand by the truth and I know that the AG will be more than able to stand the test without my having to accept every single false claim of genocide.

Now continue to be ignorant and call me a "denialist" like the unthinking programmed robot you are, but I will NOT be part of a lie for you or anyone. Nothing angers me more than when people talk without thinking first and in my book now you have absolutely no credibility about any matter since you are willing to LIE in this manner.

BTW, next time someone accuses Armenians of genocide in Khojaly, keep your mouth shut. Or agree with the accusers. I don't want liars on my side.