Dashnaks Insist On Territorial Claims To Turkey

[1.5 million]

Stop this obssesion with genocide and stay on topic.

Just why are you here - on a Genocide forum - may I ask?

[maral_m79]

Melson makes a good distinction between "Total" genocide and other "genocides" the latter of which meet the UN accepted criteria but fall somewhat short of an attempt to totally annihilate a given people from where they live and to utterly destroy their culture and presence there. Of the former (total) Genocide - Melson argues there have only ever been two modern cases - that of the Holocaust of the Jews and the Armenian Genocide. (Melson is a Jewsih Holocaust survivor BTW...I felt aI needed to mention that as the new mode in the forum seems to be that one must mention "the Jews" in every post)....

But of course, I know who Robert Melson is
and as his name came by, I was wondering is there any of his books availible online ? maybe "Revolution and Genocide" , "Theoretical Inquiry into the Armenian Massacres of 1894-1896" and so ... ?
I was trying to find "Revolution and Genocide" online for long time... I mean the text of it .

[1.5 million]

Martal - you may know who Robert Melson is - that was not the point - the point is that he is a Jew who is very active in Armenian Genocide recognition...and I suspect that many here are unaware of such - or perhaps just don't want to admit that such a thing is possible - etc

And I doubt you will find the text of Revolution and Genocide online...however there are some bits of his thinking from interviews and such which make some of the same points. Still the book is best.

[Casper]

News

http://www.panarmenian.net/library/eng/?nid=70

The Rise of Anti-Semitism In Turkey
By Jack Manuelian

When the Donmeh sect and Zionists created the modern state of Israel they also made plans for the creation of an anti-Israel "force" in the Middle East that can be used to destroy their own experiment of modern Israel. Hence, The core Zionists would be both the creators and the destroyers of the state of Israel.

Nowadays, inner Zionists are activating the "self-destruction" mechanism of modern Israel; their plan is to bring a Turkish muslim dictator as a ruler of Turkey, a Muslim Hitler-like destroyer, a Turkish Bin Laden who would unite the various factions in Turkey and lead them to the old glory they once knew.

Presently the invisible rulers of Turkey are not real Turks but rather infiltrated secular "Turks" who are the secret followers of the anti-Mohammad and anti-Christ prophet Zabbatai Zevi, who was the founder of the Donmeh sect and of the Zabbataean movement.

In a country like Turkey where if you are a pro-Armenian Genocide activist you can be thrown in jail, and if Turkish academics plan to hold a conference in order to debate the Armenian Genocide, like they just recently tried to do in Istanbul, they are not allowed to; however, books such as Mein Kampf, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and The International Jew are freely displayed and sold in kiosk stands all over Turkey. Those books are not found for sale in the bookstores of USA and Europe and someone has to look for them in underground outlets, yet in Turkey those anti-Israeli books are best-sellers and can be obtained from anywhere and at cheap prices. Not only this, but newspapers in Turkey have the total unrestricted freedom to publish any kind of anti-Semitic, anti-Jewish, and anti-Israeli articles and commentaries. A fact that made Schily, the German Interior Minister, say this past May during a press conference: "If the Turkish government does not have the necessary [antisemitism] laws, they should create them." Schily did not say if this was one of the prerequisite for Turkey's admittance into EU.

All this in a country like Turkey that has very close military and economic relations with Israel and considers Israel to be its ally in the Middle East. However, according to Zionist plans, the "force" that would be able to destroy Israel has to rise now and be ready to destroy their "house-of-cards" in Palestine when the time is right (when the fullness of time is come), which is sometime in the next ten or fifteen years when World War III is ignited in the Middle East. Israel was created just after WW II for the purpose of another great war, that of WW III; when it starts then Israel, having accomplished its mission, can be disposed of like an old rag, this according to their plans-which may come to pass or may not.

The invisible secular rulers of modern Turkey know perfectly well that the Genocide of the Armenians was real, but they are doing everything in their power to hide, deny and suppress that fact. Why? because they are afraid that their cover would blow up and they are going to be discovered as belonging to the ones who planned and organized that Genocide.

A Turkish nationalist columnist, Selcuk Duzgun, recently wrote: "Wherever we turn we see impure, false converts. Whichever stone you turn over [in Turkey], there is a 'Jew' under it." Needless to say, a second holocaust of the Jews is on the horizon; those who executed so well the Armenian Genocide are capable of repeating the same--this time with the Jews as their victims. The Turks did not disappoint the planners and organizers of the Armenian Genocide, neither they will with the second holocaust of the Jews.

A secular liberal Turkish columnist, Sakir Suter, wrote in June 24, 2004 concerning the Turkish Jews: "They have an obligation to show us that they are distanced from the terror [he means the war with the Kurds] that resulted in the death of thousands in Turkey... and that the Jews are not 'plotting' against us together with the [Kurdish] elements in northern Iraq." First it was the false accusation that the Armenians were collaborating with the Russians during WW 1, and now the same accusation is being directed to the Jews as collaborators with the Kurds against Turkey. It is the same old Genocide plan that is being revamped; there is nothing new under the sun. In the same article, Sakir writes directing his speech to Jews of Israel: "We, on our part, are offering one last chance before officially and openly declaring that the Jews are our 'enemy.' ... we have reached such a juncture that... millions in Turkey are all too eager to pour out to the streets and cry out: Death to Zionism!"

This antisemitism is becoming a serious matter in Turkey; a mass movement like 1930s Germany. In an interview published in April 4, 2005, in Turkish newspaper Vatan, Rusen Cakie asks Barry Jacobs, the American Jewish Committee's director of Strategic Studies in the Office of Government and International Affairs, "Do you think anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism are at serious levels [in Turkey]?" Jacob's answer in part: "Yes, it's very grave. In fact, this is due to the recent rise in nationalism in Turkey. We see this nationalism in the Turkish military which has a very deeply rooted relationship with the American military, in the [Turkish] government and all the [Turkish] political parties."

As to the assessment of the status of the Turkish-American relations; Jacob's answer: "The relations are going through a difficult period. It would be exaggerated to say that this is a crisis, but in the past seven or eight months there have been serious problems. The American administration is disturbed by the increase in anti-American, anti-Western, anti-Israel, and anti-Semitic [manifestations] in Turkey, especially in the media."

The Turkish Prof. Dr. Ihsan Dagi has said in an interview published on February 28, 2005, in Turkish daily Radikal that "a new alliance is being created" in Turkey, and there is "a search for a new national unity in Turkey." The Professor explains: "It is a new and broad alliance against the Jews and the Donme, who are [said to] secretly plotting not only in the world but also in Turkey, who control Turkey and who need to be stopped...In this alliance you have groups from AKP (the current ruling part), the Left, Kemalists, the Republican People's Party (the current opposition party), Alevi, a whole world of people." from nationalistic-conservative and political Islam circles to the leftist and secular circles. Nationalism and radical Islam in Turkey have found a common ground in anti-Semitism.

Abdurrahim Karakoç, a columnist at the Islamic newspaper Vakit wrote in Aug. 17, 2004: "It was Hitler yesterday, and it is Osama bin Laden today." And may I add it is a Turkish Ben Laden tomorrow ruling over Turkey. It is clear now that this coming October there is not going to be any EU accession talks with Turkey until the present constitutional crisis is somehow solved. We read in a June 4, 2005 article in Economist: "There are, indeed, disturbing signs that Mr Erdogan may be pandering to a recent upsurge in nationalism that is being fanned both by anti-Turkish sentiment in Europe and by the country's hawkish generals, whose power may be eroded by EU reforms."

Turkey eventually will move away from Europe toward nationalism and aspire to become a great power again with a close solidarity with other muslim nations. She will choose the path of Anti-Zionism and advocate the destruction of Israel, this attitude or option alone will guarantee her a leading role in the Islamic world, specially among the Arab states and those of Central Asia: Their original homeland.

[1.5 million]

You are completely wrong, casper. Most of the Turkish people dont come from Central Asia, as you think of. The majority of Turkish nation consists of people who came from Balkans, east Europe, Russia. We are ethnically not real Turks. We are culturally Turks, therefore I dont see any reason to return to Central Asia. Central Asia has got its own people.
Concerning Armeniod opinions, I can say people full of hate like you cause massive destructions and agony in the human history. We dont say we didnot kill any armenian, many of them died or killed in a civil war. But genecoide is a another thing related to politics. Today there is a independent Armenian State. Why dont you go to live there? It is a part of your beloved soil?

Furthermore, will you apoligize for our diplomates killed by Asala? Or Azeri Turks killed in Karadag?

hahahaha - civil war...yeah. FYI the term genocide was specifically coined to describe the type of mass killings carried out by the Turksih Government in 1915 against the innocent Armenian population - so can you really tell me that this designation does not apply - no you can't. Guilty. Admit it!

[turkishforces]

Yes I can feel their haunting presence. I am against killing.
On the other hand genocide was coined after WW2. I you didnot know, you have learnt now. You should study more rather than insulting. I am not guilty because I havenot killed anybody.

[Hovik]

Yes I can feel their haunting presence. I am against killing.
On the other hand genocide was coined after WW2. I you didnot know, you have learnt now. You should study more rather than insulting. I am not guilty because I havenot killed anybody.

Welcome to the forum. Since you are in a teaching mood, why don't you tell us who coined the word "genocide", in what year, and on the basis of what event?

I am dying to learn this one

[turkishforces]

What is to you?

Turkey eventually will move away from Europe toward nationalism and aspire to become a great power again with a close solidarity with other muslim nations. She will choose the path of Anti-Zionism and advocate the destruction of Israel, this attitude or option alone will guarantee her a leading role in the Islamic world, specially among the Arab states and those of Central Asia: Their original homeland.

Yes Casper, what is to you? It is our problem. You are not a Turkish citizen!

[Kharpert]

Please read the FAQ found at this website to learn about the Armenian Genocide before you begin discussing it.

[turkishforces]

Origine of the word `genocide`

The term "genocide" was coined by Raphael Lemkin (1900–1959), a Polish Jewish legal scholar, in 1943, from the roots genos (Greek for family, tribe or race) and -cide (Latin - occidere, to massacre).

Lemkin said about the definition of genocide in its original adoption for international law at the Geneva Conventions:

Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.[1]
Lemkin's original genocide definition was narrow, as it addressed only crimes against "national groups" rather than "groups" in general. Interestingly, it was broad at the same time as it included not only physical genocide, but also acts aimed at destroying the culture and livelihood of the group.

[edit]
Genocide as a crime under international law
In the wake of the Nazi perpetrated Holocaust, Lemkin successfully campaigned for the universal acceptance of international laws, defining and forbidding genocide. This was achieved in 1948, with the promulgation of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.

The CPPCG was adopted by the UN General Assembly on 9 December 1948 and came into effect on 12 January 1951 (Resolution 260 (III)). It contains an internationally-recognized definition of genocide which was incorporated into the national criminal legislation of many countries, and was also adopted by the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, the treaty that established the International Criminal Court (ICC). The Convention (in article 2) defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:"

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The first draft of the Convention included political killings but the USSR did not accept that actions against groups identified as holding similar political opinion or social status, that would constitute genocide if carried out against an ethnic group, was genocide. So they were removed in a political and diplomatic compromise.

After the minimum 20 countries became parties to the Convention, it came into force as international law on 12 January 1951. At that time however, only two of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council (UNSC) were parties to the treaty: France and the Republic of China. Eventually the Soviet Union ratified in 1954, the United Kingdom in 1970, the People's Republic of China in 1983 (having replaced the Taiwan-based Republic of China on the UNSC in 1971), and the United States in 1988. This long delay in support for the Genocide Convention by the world's most powerful nations caused the Convention to languish for over four decades.