Question to people of Turkish decent

[imported_RUDO]

Alparslan Turkes legendary leader(basbug) of grey wolf movement, openly acknowledges that Armenians were wronged by Ittihadists.

TurQ why did you use this sentence?Or why did you use Türkeş's sentence instead of Atatürk's or another important Turkish leader?I think that you are also a Grey Wolf.Right?
Because you always advocate them and use their(Wolves)sentences?

[TurQ]

RUDO, elendil was saying that ultra-nationalists, greywolves would not say bad things had happened to Armenians, in response I said ALparslan Turkes, who is legendary leader of that movement openly says it.
In this point Ataturk or other Turkish leaders is not in this context.

Sorry for the confusion

TurQ why did you use this sentence?Or why did you use Türkeş's sentence instead of Atatürk's or another important Turkish leader?I think that you are also a Grey Wolf.Right?
Because you always advocate them and use their(Wolves)sentences?

[TurQ]

No I am not a member of Ulkucu movement. I am a nationalist but this does not mean that I am member of MHP. I had friends from MHP(actually from every walk of political life I had friends including partisan party members). When I was in high school I was a supporter of Turgut Ozal, after him I dont see any politician to support.

I dont remember advocating them, I just say what I know. I personally greatly dislike Bahceli or his brother Dogu perincek. There are lots of things that I dont like with Turkes as well, but this does not mean that I have to demonise them. I dont like CHP for sure, but I know lots of reasonable people within CHP, this does not mean that I have to demonise CHP.

I will find out that articles by Can Dundar about Turkes's relations with Levon Ter Petrosyan to establish relations between Turkey and Armenia etc.

There is a bad attitude in Turkey, if we dont like a person or some group we demonise it, using no knowledge but only emotions. You may not like somebody or some group but you have to know what you dislike or what you hate. This is my opinion RUDO.

TurQ why did you use this sentence?Or why did you use Türkeş's sentence instead of Atatürk's or another important Turkish leader?I think that you are also a Grey Wolf.Right?
Because you always advocate them and use their(Wolves)sentences?

[Gavur]

Bulllllhit!
But thank you L'elendil for your part to perffectly demonstrate Turkish stubborness on this issue .
Thanks god The acknowledgment of genocide is not up to Turks it will be decided by greater powers you will only get the summons to witness your own execution.
If it is left to the Turks of course they will never acknowledge.

[Gavur]

Turq if I put a hit on you in 2006 with your logic would I be blamed for causing Turks for Genocideing Armenians in 1915 tell L'elendil your answer.

[elendil]

But thank you L'elendil for your part to perffectly demonstrate Turkish stubborness on this issue .

Well, you are welcome

Thanks god The acknowledgment of genocide is not up to Turks it will be decided by greater powers you will only get the summons to witness your own execution.

Sure Gavur, we are waiting for summons

[Soorp Asdvadz]

Oh, so ur saying that it will never happen???!!?? Turkey will never be admitted into the EU if it doesn't admit...Why else have u guys been waiting to be submitted for the past 30 +yrs???

[Kharpert]

Sure Gavur, we are waiting for summons

Well, if elendil doesn't recognize the genocide, maybe Isildur will. Or perhaps we'll have to wait until Aragorn recognizes it.

[elendil]

Well, if elendil doesn't recognize the genocide, maybe Isildur will. Or perhaps we'll have to wait until Aragorn recognizes it.

[maral_m79]

First of all thanks for keeping calm I appreciate it.

don't worry, I'm not going to get angry.

You are saying this and I have full confidence that you are not lying. But Maral, who would you have me believe? There were Kurds,Turks before deportation in eastern Anatolia of considerable size. I am %100 sure of that while it is also correct that after Armenians were cast out their residences these people were replaced by Turks and Kurds, that is also true. However, it is the people (my people) that tell about Armenian gang acts. Not my state. If I cast their experiences, memories as lies and accept your eyewitnesses testifyings as truth, Is this not nominating my people as liars?

No elendil, I'm not trying to convince you that your people (not the gov.) are lying. I'm saying that they might be repeating a hearsay, a rumer or something that they were told by the gov. or they might be something happened (if true) after the war (maybe some low scale blind revenge acts).. you can not exclude that possibilty since the back up of people was needed back at that time to support & help in the gov.'s plan to eleminate the Armenians. Have you ever read Elif Safak's article about her grandmother's testemony ? Do you know that the Turkish gov. issued laws to punish kill and burn down houses of Muslims who sympathize with the Armenians and try to help them survive ? If not I encourage you to read the Turkish Military Tribunals 1919-1920, read the texts, see for yourself what were the crimes that the government was condemed to.

All that I'm trying to say, that you should have more knowledge and do more readings yourself, not to depend on what people tell you, or even what I tell you .... read for yourself and compare your readings to each other, you'll see what all sources agree on is not what the Turkish gov is trying to convince you with.

Ofcourse not, but that is what war is. There is no type of war that sides which wage war or let me say that leads a campaign can be equal in terms of power, authority. Such is not the nature of conflicts.

elendil, it was not a war ... when a government attack it's own people ( a specific ethnic group of it's people) regardless of age sex and what they did or not, that does not fit to the definition of "War".. you should know that !

Do you call Saddam's gasing Kurds in Halabca "A WAR" ?? or an aggression ?

There is no justification here. But at that time, at those conditions our safety(partly speaking) demanded such desperate pre-cautions. I may be hurting you while speaking this blunt but facts are pretty twisted in the Armenian issue of Turkey. Saying that taking out a people is a necessity in terms of security is also pretty inhumane, but this is war and in war people are killed,exiled regardless of innocence. Also in war it is a fact that people's life cost merely a thing.(Including ours)

This is exactly what Genocide is all about elendil, the punitive aggression against an entier ethnic or religous group of the government's own people, in order to eleminate them. Even the worsed paid denialist writers can't dare to deny the fact that the "Large Masses of the Armenian People of the Ottoman Empire were LOYAL to the gov."

What wrong did they do to be eleminated and exterminated in whole or even in part ? Almost all men were recuried to the army, and they served the Ottoman army very well that Turk army leaders acknowldged their loyalty and courage... who was left in those villages to be deported an eleminated, women childeren and old men .... what kind of danger those can pose ??

Perhaps because they were Christians, perhaps they were seen as intellectual architects of further Armeninan propaganda, resistance. The reasons could vary pretty much....

We have a saying in Armenian, it goes like this "Kogh Serd@ Togh" it means "the theif is always afaird" ... why would they think that those people might be the architects of "propaganda" in the future, if they are not sure that what they are doing is wrong accodring to all known laws (Divine and Human laws).

I know what that means. Besides I have no interest of justification. What can I say to people whose grandfather and families have been killed in war at those times? Nothing most certainly.

Elendil, my grandfather's mother was not killed in the war, she was killed in the deportation carvan, my grandfathers sisters were also not killed in the war they were killed in the massacres, nore my other grandfather's and grandmother's family ...
Ask every Armenian you know, how did your survivng grandparents had lost their family members, why did they end in an orphanage ... and see what they have to tell you !

I am quite a reasonable guy, I can assure you but perhaps not enough to meet your standarts in terms of values of humanity. Where as I dont give these values much credit.

I apologize once again if I caused any pain or anger in you people though also I remind you the very thread itself has asked to hear our side in the issue. I will say no more in this thread before my bretheren also answers the question
that was adressed to them.

With Regards

I know you are quite reasonable when you want to be, that's why you find me very calm and patient talking to you, but I must remind you that it's not me who sets those values elendil, and I didn't make those international laws.

I believe that you are out of curiousity joined this forum, you (maybe) wanted to know more about the Armenian issue, or the Armenians themselves, you wanted to know what's the big deal, and why we are still hurt after 9 decades ... If my guessing is true, then I must say, that you need to learn more before you make your judgment, and try to avoid pre-judgments as much as you can ....

I hope that you'll find the truth you've been looking for... maybe someday you'll manage to see outside the box !

Good Luck !