The Policy of Turkification of Iran

[imported_oslonor]

As far as oslonor is concerned, I see three possibilities:

I. either he is a pan-turkist disguised as (I really can't figure out) someone opposed to a fictitious "people" called "Azeri".

II. or he is confused and doesn't know what he's talking about, because no matter how many times I clearly explain that a nation called "Azeri" is a fabrication and has never existed throughout history, he keeps on sendind unintelligible messages.
I really don't understand whose side he's on.

III. or he is just pulling our legs and is having fun!

This can apply to you too.

To your post:

I don't know whether you are addressing oslonor or me, since you haven't used QUOTE tags.

If by "your article" and "that link of yours" you are talking to me, I can't believe you read that article in such a short time.
It's consisted of five parts, it is completely exhaustive and covers all areas regarding the question.

If you want my explanation, for the thousandth time:

Turks are not a race.

Turks are a race or an ethnic group does not really matter. Turks are not Iranians. That is very simple.

By Turks I mean the invading nomads who pillaged this side of the Caspian after the 11th century A.D.
They "conquered" the areas from the Caucasus to Asia Minor and forced their language and Turkic identity on the conquered, indigenous peoples through rape, harassment, genocide, taxes, janissary "recruitments", stealing of women as sex slaves, stealing of children, etc.

Actually you are trying to prove the today's Azeri agenda just in a different way. This was actually what the Ottoman turks did under ottoman empire. Azeri Turks are trying to do this today 400 years later. No. Azeris did not mix up with anybody at that time. They just killed the original inhabitants of those areas or forced Persians and Kurds to move away from those areas. Azeri Turks did not know about racism today and they did not think they should look European as Azeri Turks today think. I am sure you are very sorry that they did not do what the ottoman turks did. Then your theories would come true. But sorry that was not the way history developed with Azeri Turks. All your argument is based on Azeris are Medes or Kurds and those nomads married them. No they did not marry them!!! Azeris do not look like Kurds or Persians!!!!!!

The fake nation, "Azeris" are also the same as Turks. They are not an ethnicity.
The people of the REAL Azarbaijan (Aturpatekan) however, are the descendants of the Medes (an Iranian people), who became speakers of Turkish under the rule of Turkic invaders. They are Iranians racially, culturally and in mentality and they consider themselves Iranians.

Those Iranians have either been killed or moved from the area. Azeri are those invading nomads that you are talking about. Changing a language is one thing. Changing the culture is entirely different. Azeris do not have Iranian culture.

Now, if you had read the article you would have found out that "...Persia is not confined by linear conceptions such as “race”, “language” or even “culture”. An Iranian can just as easily be speaking Arabic in Khuzistan, Baluchi in Zahedan, or Turkish in Maragheh."

You are getting really confused. Anybody who is a citizen of Iran is called Iranian. It has nothing to do with ethnicity or race. Arabs, Jews and Assyrians and turkomans are also Iranians.

Iran is not Turkey, so do not project.
In Turkey EVERYBODY is a Turk and if they refuse to consider themselves as such, they will be exterminated like the Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians in 1915.

In Iran it is impossible to tell whether one is completely Persian or has Azarbaijani (Turkish speaking Iranian) "mixed" in their blood.
Almost anybody that I know will tell you: "my mother is a Tork (the word for Turkish speaking Iranian) and my father is a Lur", "I am Fars and my wife is Tork", "I am Kurdish and my husband is Fars" and so on, if they are asked.
It doesn't mean that it matters much, but that's what you hear all the time.

Most of those people are lying. There is very little intermarriage with Azeris. Kurds and Persians might be mixed in some areas, but Azeris and other groups very seldom. Besides Persians are small minority living far away places from Azeris such as in Khorasan and Lurestan. There are no Azeris in those Areas.
Some Azeris claim they are Persians. So when they marry other Azeris, those Azeris imagine they have married a Persian. In reality both of them are Azeris!!!!!!!

There is no distinction or discrimination among different "ethnicities" in Iran.
This is the secret that this country has survived against the odds and such different peoples of immense diversity have lived in harmony together for such a long time.

That is correct. But you forgot to mention they live in different provinces. Azeris in North West. Persians mainly in North East!!!!

The article, which neither you nor oslonor have read, clearly explains all of this and also exposes the enemies of Iran, the pan-turkists, who are trying to destroy this harmony.

Azeris are Pan-Turkist who are trying to steal other people's heritage.

Because destroy is what Turks do and they do it like no other.

I agree with you on this.

[imported_oslonor]

Except for the "Azeri Views on Persians:" part in this post, and ignoring the cussing, almost every single quote is absolutely true.

Can you prove any of them wrong?
The part IR in Iran is the same as Arya or Aryan.
It's the name of one of Fereiduns three sons, Iraj who is the ancestor of the Iranians, according to Iranian mythology.
Hitler misused this and his crap has been proved to be just that.
The term Indo/European is meaningless, just like the terms anti-semite, Eastern Anatolia and so on.
Dark hair people are equally human beings as lighter hair people.
I still don't know whose side you're on. I don't even know why I care!

I am not discussing any Aryan theory. All I am saying that Azeris and Persians are not the same ethnic group. Those pictures I have posted prove that. Arabs have Haplotype Group EU10 Gene Marker. Persians do not have EU10. For an Azeri a Persian is somebody who can speak Persian. That is how Azeris are Persians. For a Persian a Persian is somebody who look like a Persian. That is the difference between Persians and Azeri Views. In terms of antrhopology a Persian has long narrow face. An Azeri has an Oval face with often connected eyebrows.

Also here is an exchange between an Azeri Turk and an Anatolian Turk


Iranian Azeri
Remember Turkic peoples are non-turks who speak or adopted Turkish language and are not ethnically Turks.

Anatolian Turk:
You drive me crazy with such nonsens!!
Böyle piçleri hala ne konusturuyon burda seko??!!
Let me say something to you, you will never ever gonna be an ayran or aryan because "AZERI's ARENT ARYANS"

This is a Persian:


Say Hello

http://www.deepdish.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=section.home&id=4&sectionName=Music&sectionSubName=Media&releaseid=115

Flash Dance

http://www.deepdish.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=section.home&id=4&sectionName=Music&sectionSubName=Media&releaseid=100

This is an Azeri Turk

[Gavur]

Azeris circle wagons around opposition channel

Azeris circle wagons around opposition channel

The New Anatolian / Ankara



The Iranian Azeri diaspora in the U.S. and Canada have started a letter and petition campaign to urge Turkey not to ban the pro-Azeri TV channel GunAz broadcasting via a Turkish satellite.

Azeri political groups, in letters to Turkish ambassadors in Washington and Ottawa, have demanded the rejection of an Iranian request to revoke the TurkSat license held by opposition GunAz TV.

"Azeri Turks have always suffered cultural and economic discrimination at the hands of Iran," the campaign letter said. "We hereby urge the Turkish government, through you, to reject the Iranian request. In so doing, the Turkish government will show that it respects freedom of speech and freedom of the press, especially when it comes to the cultural survival of a nation -- the Iranian Azeri Turk nation."

Iranian officials conveyed their uneasiness about GunAz TV to Turkish officials last month and asked that the station's license be suspended, claiming that the TV station was "spreading secessionist propaganda."

Turkish authorities took note of the Iranian side's concerns and said that the issue will be investigated before a response to Tehran.

South Azerbaijan Television (GunAz TV), based in the U.S. city of Chicago, is the first 24-hour TV station broadcasting to Iranian Azeris. The station was established in April last year but has just recently started broadcasting. GunAz TV declares on its webpage that it will struggle against "Persian chauvinism" and aims for the revival of Azeri national identity.

[imported_oslonor]

Azeris circle wagons around opposition channel

The New Anatolian / Ankara



The Iranian Azeri diaspora in the U.S. and Canada have started a letter and petition campaign to urge Turkey not to ban the pro-Azeri TV channel GunAz broadcasting via a Turkish satellite.

Azeri political groups, in letters to Turkish ambassadors in Washington and Ottawa, have demanded the rejection of an Iranian request to revoke the TurkSat license held by opposition GunAz TV.

"Azeri Turks have always suffered cultural and economic discrimination at the hands of Iran," the campaign letter said. "We hereby urge the Turkish government, through you, to reject the Iranian request. In so doing, the Turkish government will show that it respects freedom of speech and freedom of the press, especially when it comes to the cultural survival of a nation -- the Iranian Azeri Turk nation."

Iranian officials conveyed their uneasiness about GunAz TV to Turkish officials last month and asked that the station's license be suspended, claiming that the TV station was "spreading secessionist propaganda."

Turkish authorities took note of the Iranian side's concerns and said that the issue will be investigated before a response to Tehran.

South Azerbaijan Television (GunAz TV), based in the U.S. city of Chicago, is the first 24-hour TV station broadcasting to Iranian Azeris. The station was established in April last year but has just recently started broadcasting. GunAz TV declares on its webpage that it will struggle against "Persian chauvinism" and aims for the revival of Azeri national identity.

This is actually correct. Ordinary Azeri Turks in Iran are severly suppressed by the Azeri Turk regime in Tehran. They call it "Pan-Turkism". The reason is that Azeri Turk regime in Tehran can only rule Iran if they present themselves as Persians. That is why they deny ordinary Azeri ethnic rights such as language rights. We think the "Pan-turkism" is by the regime in Tehran and not by ordinary Azeris. The policy of Turkification of Iran for the rest of Iran is something more complicated than some Azeris watching a TV program. It includes from racial policies by the state to moving Persians into Tehran to even moving the capital and Azeris into provinces. That policy is in force for the non-turks in Iran.

[imported_oslonor]

All Empire Forum: My changes:

This topic is about the origin of the present day Azaris, right? How can anyone exclude the Turkic origin, while they are presently belong to Turkic group? It's really odd.

It's probable the native people pior to the Turkic migration were Caucasian, Iranic, Ugrian or Indo european. The question is how come they had been Turkified, if Turkic tribes had no major role in the formation of them as Azaris?

The ruling power or language substitution by elites? I don't think so. You only need to remember Moghuls in India and Manchus in China. The opposite is the case. The ruling Azeri elite adopted the Persian language.

The culture? No again, as the native culture seemed to be more attractive or powerful than the nomad culture of migrating Azeris.

Why Talesh speaking ethnic group in Azerbaijan did not become turkified. Because nobody was turkified to begin with. Talesh remained Talesh. Azeris remained Azeri Turks.

The population? This seemed to be the answer, given the fact that above two possibilities are slim. The population was really Azeris.

So the conclusion is that Azeris are orininally mainly Turkic people.

[imported_Hellektor]

OK, oslonor. It's no use arguing with you. You either don't understand what I'm saying or you are a pan-turkist.

From your posts I deduce:

I. You claim a nation called "Azeri" exists whereas no such thing has ever existed.

II. You claim they speak a language called "Azeri" which is a fallacy and I will not repeat why, read my previous posts. The supposed "Azeris", Turks of the Caucasus speak Turkish.

III. You claim the peoples living to the south and to the north of Arax are one and the same whereas according to all historians (and geographical historians) from Strabbo, Pliny, Ptolemy... to Arab and Persian historians Balazari, Massoudi, Tabari, Dinvari... to Armenian historians from Khorenatsi, Pavstos Buzand, Agatangeghos to Kaghankatouatsi... have provided humanity with undeniable HISTORICAL facts, where there is absolutely no question regarding the separateness, duality, "unrelatedness", call it what you want, between the REAL Azarbaijan (Aturpatekan) and the land north of the Arax River in racial, linguistic, religious, cultural and national terms.

If you want to argue, go argue with all these historians in the other world.

IV. One can see that you want to dissect Iran and give all the western and northern parts to the Turks, which is and has been the fantasy of the Turks since Ottoman days. It shows you as a pan-turkist disguised as an "anti-Turk".

I am not discussing any Aryan theory. All I am saying that Azeris and Persians are not the same ethnic group. Those pictures I have posted prove that. Arabs have Haplotype Group EU10 Gene Marker. Persians do not have EU10. For an Azeri a Persian is somebody who can speak Persian. That is how Azeris are Persians. For a Persian a Persian is somebody who look like a Persian. That is the difference between Persians and Azeri Views. In terms of antrhopology a Persian has long narrow face. An Azeri has an Oval face with often connected eyebrows.

This shows you have been influenced by Western fascist ideologies. All this crap about the size of forehead, the shape of skull, nose, cheekbones, etc. and attributing levels of intelligence accordingly is the filthiest and the most irrational crap invented by the western "scientists" to rule the world the way they like.

There's no way one can check the so called "EU10 Gene Marker" or similar crap for every single person living in Iran.

I was born and grew up in Iran and you want to "prove" some fantastic, western, fascist ideas whereas I am almost sure you never have been in Iran.

[imported_oslonor]

OK, oslonor. It's no use arguing with you. You either don't understand what I'm saying or you are a pan-turkist.

From your posts I deduce:

I. You claim a nation called "Azeri" exists whereas no such thing has ever existed.

You should this article about who are the Azeris. That include all Azeris south and north. Arran or Azerbaijan names are not important. We are talking about Azeris. This article is written by an Armenian.

FROM NONSENSE TO NATIONHOOD: A DANGEROUS TRAJECTORY OF AZERBAIJANI NATIONALISM
INVENTING THE PAST: CULTURAL PLAGIARISM AS A CHARTER OF IDENTITY

http://azerinationalism.blogspot.com/

II. You claim they speak a language called "Azeri" which is a fallacy and I will not repeat why, read my previous posts. The supposed "Azeris", Turks of the Caucasus speak Turkish.

Yes. They do speak Azeri language. An Azeri friend of mine confirmed it too.

III. You claim the peoples living to the south and to the north of Arax are one and the same whereas according to all historians (and geographical historians) from Strabbo, Pliny, Ptolemy... to Arab and Persian historians Balazari, Massoudi, Tabari, Dinvari... to Armenian historians from Khorenatsi, Pavstos Buzand, Agatangeghos to Kaghankatouatsi... have provided humanity with undeniable HISTORICAL facts, where there is absolutely no question regarding the separateness, duality, "unrelatedness", call it what you want, between the REAL Azarbaijan (Aturpatekan) and the land north of the Arax River in racial, linguistic, religious, cultural and national terms.
If you want to argue, go argue with all these historians in the other world.

All your claims are based on a name. No. Actually these Azeris are related to each other within a Turkish family of tribes and composed of different tribes described in the article:

"Assembled from linguistically related but disparate pastoral and semi-pastoral tribal formations — known as Borchali, Kengerly, Demurchi-Hasanli, Djinli, Padar, Karapapakh, Afshar, Shahseven, Ottuz-Iki, Igirmi-Dort, Chobankara, Karim-Beghlu, Sayidlu-Akhsakhlu, Jam-Melli, Qafarlu, Karabeghlu, Godaklu, etc., etc. — Azerbaijan represents a mutant entity"

That is all we care at the level we are talking about. Azeris in Iran try their best to associate themselves with Qashqaii Persian tribes who have adopted a turkish language living in Fars province and who have nothing to do with Azeris ethnically or in terms of language and who live far away from Azeris. But Azeris do not want to associate themselves with their ethnic brothers just across the border who speak the same language and who are related with ethnically.

IV. One can see that you want to dissect Iran and give all the western and northern parts to the Turks, which is and has been the fantasy of the Turks since Ottoman days. It shows you as a pan-turkist disguised as an "anti-Turk".

I am not in any position to give away anything. You are trying to stop the discussion about the repercussions of a US attack on Iran. That is something entirely different. Those events have nothing to do with me. I should be a very strange "Pan-Turk" who is promoting the "Afghan Empire"!!!!

This shows you have been influenced by Western fascist ideologies. All this crap about the size of forehead, the shape of skull, nose, cheekbones, etc. and attributing levels of intelligence accordingly is the filthiest and the most irrational crap invented by the western "scientists" to rule the world the way they like.

I guess you have never taken a course in anthropology. Anthropology has nothing to do with Hitler. I have to describe how Azeris look like when you claim they are the same as Persians.

There's no way one can check the so called "EU10 Gene Marker" or similar crap for every single person living in Iran.

DNA is a science and not crap. Do a search for EU10 you will see it is an Arab gene marker.

I was born and grew up in Iran and you want to "prove" some fantastic, western, fascist ideas whereas I am almost sure you never have been in Iran.

What fascist ideas??? Can you explain my fascist ideas. Is posting a picture of an Azeri is a fascist idea?????? What is so secret about Azeri pictures. Shirin Ebadi is a very famous Azeri that I posted her picture.

[bell-the-cat]

People, something smells very fishy about this "oslonor" person and his identical postings in multiple blogs and forums, all composed in a curiously detached "written-by-committee" style. I advise you not to respond to his posts.
I doubt if "he" actually exists as an individual person. You are all living in innocence if you think that the propaganda potential of the numerous blogs and forums on the internet have not been recognised and are not being exploited by those with budgets in the billions.
What "his" end game is, I can't say. But if you are happy to be "his" lab-rats then continue to reply to "his" postings.

[imported_oslonor]

People, something smells very fishy about this "oslonor" person and his identical postings in multiple blogs and forums, all composed in a curiously detached "written-by-committee" style. I advise you not to respond to his posts.
I doubt if "he" actually exists as an individual person. You are all living in innocence if you think that the propaganda potential of the numerous blogs and forums on the internet have not been recognised and are not being exploited by those with budgets in the billions.
What "his" end game is, I can't say. But if you are happy to be "his" lab-rats then continue to reply to "his" postings.

Hello Mr. Bell-the-cat: I am not sure you are one cat or a committee of cats. But the point is that it is irrelvant. We are discussing some issues that can be read worldwide. Actually I am not supported by anybody as my views are not politcally correct according to some people. Usually I am banned from different forums. But if you think your views are correct then you should discuss them. It should not matter if the opponent is from the Moon or is down the block where you live. Only the people who lose the argument can argue like you.


Oslonor

[imported_oslonor]

Posted by =Hellektor

By Turks I mean the invading nomads who pillaged this side of the Caspian after the 11th century A.D. They "conquered" the areas from the Caucasus to Asia Minor and forced their language and Turkic identity on the conquered, indigenous peoples through rape, harassment, genocide, taxes, janissary "recruitments", stealing of women as sex slaves, stealing of children, etc.

This is an important point so I am reposting it. Actually you are trying to prove the today's Azeri agenda but assign to the past. This was actually what the Ottoman turks did under ottoman empire. Azeri Turks are trying to do this today 400 years later. No. Azeris did not mix up with anybody at that time. They just killed the original inhabitants of those areas or forced Persians and Kurds to move away from those areas. Azeri Turks did not know anything about racism at that time and they did not think they should look like European as Azeri Turks today think. I am sure you are very sorry that what you are saying actually did not happen. Otherwise you could claim that Azeris are Iranian Aryans. Then your theories would come true. But sorry that was not the way history developed with Azeri Turks. Azeris have actually this agenda today using Persians and Afghan refugees in Iran for Aryanization. But sorry Azeris are very late. And US will bomb them soon. So they will not have time to carry out their agenda. All your argument is based on Azeris are Medes or Kurds or Persians and those nomads married them. No they did not marry them!!! Azeris do not look like Kurds or Persians!!!!!! In summary what you have stated precisely proves the objective of Turkification of Iran is described very correctly and you even confirmed it. This is the real agenda of Azeri Turks in Iran today but you are trying to pretend that it happened 400 years earlier.