Reperation? Ok but How much?

[ScythianVizier]

Back to turkey? Looks like a little Frauedian slip here.

I though there was no turkey back then. Isn't that what the turks keep saying? It was the "ottoman empire" at the time of the expulsions and genocide they say. But here is an admission that it's still the same old land occupied by the same old turks.

Regardless, Armenians want nothing to do with migrating to turkey. We intend on getting our land back and migrate to our own country called Armenia.

It seems like you got a problem with the Turks, which can not be resolved peacefully.

If you think that Anatolia is some Armenian land, then you must act accordingly. Conversely, you must also be ready to bear the consequences of such radical perceptions.

[ScythianVizier]

For me it is totally an ill-logic that we were here before you and you have no right to be there etc etc.

I also am in afvor of settling some Armenians in Turkey, it could start with opening a big cultural centre that focuses on common TUrkish-Armenian history/culture, and artists or intellectuals be given citizenship to run such a center. At least the some of those whose families left Turkey after 1930s be given their citizenship. I think these would easily be achived after decreasing tension and mistrust between two nations.

Akdamar's Church restoration might set an example for such an initiation may be.

I agree. It is really weird to claim ownership of a land that many civilizations existed before and after.

I believe that migration of Armenians back to Turkey could result in positive impact on Turco-Armenian relations, and it is logical to promote such policies.

[ScythianVizier]

I do not think Armenians moving back there is very realistic either. At this point, with the violence and poverty, I don't think anyone is really that happy or comfortable out east. I've said this a few times but I wish Armenians could fix up the old churches and were free and safe to visit their ancestral homes and one day open tourist related businesses. Both sides would benefit from this. I would also advocate opening the border, if not for the trade aspect, at least to let Armenians visit Ani.

As far as people's reactions out east to Armenians, in general the Kurds (the majority in most eastern areas) are very friendly towards Armenians. It's the police and military you have to worry about as an Armenian visiting the area. A group of folks from my church visited in the summer of 2001 and traveled extensively and had many positive experiences with the common folk.

On another topic, I would encourage everyone to rent "JOURNEY INTO THE SUN", a film by Günese Yoculuk.

I guess settling the Armenians in western parts of Turkey, and in cities like Istanbul, Bursa, Izmir, Canakkale, Edirne, Eskisehir, Ankara could be the initial step that could be taken.

Some migration directly to Eastern Anatolia would be too complicated to handle as some others pointed out. However, migration to bigger cities at where many other ethnicities (as well as Turkish Armenians now live) reside could be a logical starting point.

[ScythianVizier]

Just to the opposite. 21st century will be a century of numbers. (China, Russia)
You are so confident, one will think that you have a very forward looking armament policy or large research funds or a large economy which is based on production.

I agree China, India would be important countries since they have some internal dynamics far stronger than the western ones. However, I believe that Russia will eventually lean on west since she is also in decline, in terms of demographics, culture, politics, military, and economics.

I guess what Varouj meant was related to biological or nuclear warfare that could be used upon those 70 million (Turks+Kurds), but I might be mistaken.

[Varouj]

IRussia will eventually lean on west since she is also in decline, in terms of demographics, culture, politics, military, and economics.

That is totally wishful thinking.

I guess what Varouj meant was related to biological or nuclear warfare that could be used upon those 70 million (Turks+Kurds), but I might be mistaken.

You can use your itty bitty little imaginations on that one, but in this day and age to cite superior numbers is ludicrous especially in light of turkish cultural, moral and fortitudinal inferiority. Your paranoia always gets the better of you and you are all insane if you think that Armenians will accept recreating the scenario of 1915 since you show us on a daily basis you haven't changed one bit.

[ScythianVizier]

That is totally wishful thinking.

Perhaps it is, perhaps it is not. Russia, at the moment enjoys sharp increase in commodity prices, but such fest will not going to last forever.

You can use your itty bitty little imaginations on that one, but in this day and age to cite superior numbers is ludicrous especially in light of turkish cultural, moral and fortitudinal inferiority. Your paranoia always gets the better of you and you are all insane if you think that Armenians will accept recreating the scenario of 1915 since you show us on a daily basis you haven't changed one bit.

Well, it appears to me that your have certain perceptions that you would never wish to change in relation to the Turks and Turkey. In that regard, please note that we do not care less since you are not the type of Armenian that we wish to reach some compromise.

Nevertheless, tell us more about "cultural, moral and fortitudinal inferiority" of the Turks. It might be interesting for any participant who wishes to know more about such ideas oscillating in extremes.

[Joseph]

I guess settling the Armenians in western parts of Turkey, and in cities like Istanbul, Bursa, Izmir, Canakkale, Edirne, Eskisehir, Ankara could be the initial step that could be taken.

Some migration directly to Eastern Anatolia would be too complicated to handle as some others pointed out. However, migration to bigger cities at where many other ethnicities (as well as Turkish Armenians now live) reside could be a logical starting point.

Most Armenians in the diaspora have no connections to the Western areas so probably would not be interested. As an Armenian, I'd rather see Armenians be allowed to fix up the existing churches in Diyarbakir, Akhtamar, Ani, Kars, etc., be able to travel there without harrasment, and revitalize what's left of their miniscule communities out east. It would also be nice to be able to go to an historic Armenian site and not see it labled as Seljuk, Greek or Byzantine.

[ScythianVizier]

Most Armenians in the diaspora have no connections to the Western areas so probably wound not be interested. As an Armenian, I'd rather see Armenians be allowed to fix up the existing churches in Diyarbakir, Akhtamar, Ani, Kars, etc., be able to travel there without harrasment, and revitalize what's left of their miniscule communities out east. It would also be nice to be able to go to an historic Armenian site and not see it labled as Greek or Byzantine.

I agree with your assertations in relation to the Armenian elements that must be rennovated and respected in Eastern Turkey, and you might be right about how Armenians in the diaspora feel about settling in the western parts of Turkey. However, I believe that the situation could be different for the ones who did emigrate after 1930s as Turq pointed out one of his posts.

[Joseph]

I agree with your assertations in relation to the Armenian elements that must be rennovated and respected in Eastern Turkey, and you might be right about how Armenians in the diaspora feel about settling in the western parts of Turkey. However, I believe that the situation could be different for the ones who did emigrate after 1930s as Turq pointed out one of his posts.

Realistically, I don't think any Armenians will return. They would be taking too big of a risk and giving up too much in their current lives. It would be an interesting gesture though.

[imported_Ottoman]

What about Armenia - Turkey Union in future.May be also including Iran, Azerbaijan,Georgia ... where race or religion is not important.
May be not now but 100, 1000 , 100000 years later.
Seeds can be spread now.
Is this a fantasy or too childish ?