Hello I am new here

[imported_crusader1492]

To Joseph,

As I said in my first post, I've been reading this forum for a long time and I only recently decided to join because there are alot of bright people here. Also, one of the main reasons I wanted to be part of this forum is because the standards here are very strict -especially when it comes to members who prefer to hurl insults instead of trading ideas or thoughts.

With that in mind, I have stayed away from invectives and character assasination, but it seems that Bell-the Cat cannot do the same. In the few days that I have been a member, I've been called a "contemptable insect" a "bigot"...only worthy of scorn, contempt, etc.
These are uncalled for personal attacks that are beneath the decorum of this venue. Moreover, these attacks signify nothing but venom...venom that has gotten many people banned from this forum in the past.

I hope something can be done about this. I don't deserve this.
I came to this this forum to discuss the Genocide and other Armenian isuues. These issues are close to my heart as I am the grandson of Genocide survivors. I don't need some ornery character belittling my opinions at every turn as if it was a hobby.

Thanks for your attention.

BTW Joseph, it is my opinion that if you were not a moderorator, Bell would treat you with the same disrespect he is treating me. I say this, because I agree with many of your opinions such as "can turkey be taught...no".
Bell wouldn't "challenge" you on this, but if I said it, I would get the cyber middle finger from him.
I hope you get my point.

[imported_crusader1492]

Welcom to the forum Lal & Crusader.

Thanks. You're one of the reasons I joined. I've read and enjoyed many of your posts before I decided to get invloved here.

[lal]

I think you put too much stock in Turkey's power to affect the world. Turkey's petulent behavior is only being tolerated by the west right now. However, Turkey is walking a fine line and if they get out of control (as they are starting to do in Kurdistan), they will be slapped down. Essentially, Turkey can be easily manipulated by the west on many fronts (politically, economically and militarily). For example, how easy would it be to stoke Kurdish nationalism in Diyabakir?

What I'm getting at is Turkey is in no position to make demands, or force their will on the west...and certainly, Turkey is not capable of creating "terrible consequences" for the world (nor for Armenia). Turkey is only capable of creating terrible consequences for people within its own political borders...past and current history is evidence of this.

Also, it is unlikely Turkey will enter the EU (btw, I have no preference on if they enter the union or not - that is the European's business)...simply put, Turks are not wanted as their culture and institutions are undesireable in Europe.
I certainly do not blame Europe for their pragmatic stance...although it would be nice if they took on the next-to-impssible task of civilizing Turkey.

this is my last post here,than ı will disappear.

everybody says, they want peace,but nobody wants it really. it is easy to fight ,it is difficult to make peace. because to make peace both sides must be brave enough to come closer to each other and swallow some difficult things.

but before ı leave you, with your dreams of getting your lands back,ı just remind you to look at phalestein.for such a small land ,they are fighting tens of years and 9.11 ,islamist terrorizm,multicultural clashes are all a result of that small land piece.

Turkey is 16 th bigest economy of the world ,although its people are not rich or fully free. Turkey is the only muslim populated country trying to prove that islam and democracy can work together.so it is a test arena. I know that it will never be accepted to eu. but ı say at least talks must go on,so that my country cant be the land of your counterparts here. İf we are thrown away ,all the muslims of the world is following eu-turkey relations very carefully, will get a messege that muslims are not wanted by west ,no matter whatever they do and there will be a thick line between islam and christianity.


ı respect your choice of power struggles.if you think turkey is a country to be handled easily, by many methods and it is very easy to achieve armenians goals this way, good luck to you in your mission impossible. this means that you will carry the problem to your grand children and this way will keep armenian identity alive for many more years. this is your real goal ,not armenias happiness.

ı think untill today, diaspora armenians did a wonderful good job to keep their cause alive. this is good for turks also on the road of civilization.

however,you dont play with the game the same tactics for ever.you have to adjust to new conditions. world is changed. our countries are not ours any more. big giant componies are all over the world,foreigners buying lands everywhere, our national basketball,football teams have brazilian,nigerian ,other nationality players. nationality concept is changing.one day we will all be world people.

at this moment Our bosses are multicultural and world people,But we ordinary people are not free to work and live everywhere.ı wonder why...

Bye bye

[Steph]

I cant debate with you ı have nothing to tell you or learn from you.

Why are you here then?

[Steph]

actually, belonging to 2 % of the atheist population of a country, being a vegeteran in a muslim country where they openly cut the throats of sheeps and cows on the streets in every chance,in a militarist country where others are not allowed to talk much, ı consider myself a minority.

also as a turk who walked almost 10 km, holding the pancarte saying ''ı am an armenian, ı am hrant** ı have no tolarance of taking a lecture from a typical diaspora armenian.

true,ım a middle eastern person and when ı am questioned with very silly questions like why dont turks give lands to armenians,ı might be unable to keep my tolarant moode up ,but ı certainly dont came here to preach hatred.

Bell was probably right in saying that you didn't march for Hrant Dink of Armenians, but for yourself. Pehaps as a protest against your own state and society. Your religion appears to be one of anti-establishment and would vary depending upon where you live. Many people desire to be a minority and indeed achieve that through protest against the "norms" of their particular society.

My question to you is why do many atheists seem to take the moral high ground concerning believers ? Gavur touched upon the missionary-like zeal of atheists pushing their supposedly modern educated views down others throats. Is their a secret society of Atheist Jesuits?

[imported_crusader1492]

this is my last post here,than ı will disappear.

everybody says, they want peace,but nobody wants it really. it is easy to fight ,it is difficult to make peace. because to make peace both sides must be brave enough to come closer to each other and swallow some difficult things.

but before ı leave you, with your dreams of getting your lands back,ı just remind you to look at phalestein.for such a small land ,they are fighting tens of years and 9.11 ,islamist terrorizm,multicultural clashes are all a result of that small land piece.

Turkey is 16 th bigest economy of the world ,although its people are not rich or fully free. Turkey is the only muslim populated country trying to prove that islam and democracy can work together.so it is a test arena. I know that it will never be accepted to eu. but ı say at least talks must go on,so that my country cant be the land of your counterparts here. İf we are thrown away ,all the muslims of the world is following eu-turkey relations very carefully, will get a messege that muslims are not wanted by west ,no matter whatever they do and there will be a thick line between islam and christianity.


ı respect your choice of power struggles.if you think turkey is a country to be handled easily, by many methods and it is very easy to achieve armenians goals this way, good luck to you in your mission impossible. this means that you will carry the problem to your grand children and this way will keep armenian identity alive for many more years. this is your real goal ,not armenias happiness.

ı think untill today, diaspora armenians did a wonderful good job to keep their cause alive. this is good for turks also on the road of civilization.

however,you dont play with the game the same tactics for ever.you have to adjust to new conditions. world is changed. our countries are not ours any more. big giant componies are all over the world,foreigners buying lands everywhere, our national basketball,football teams have brazilian,nigerian ,other nationality players. nationality concept is changing.one day we will all be world people.

at this moment Our bosses are multicultural and world people,But we ordinary people are not free to work and live everywhere.ı wonder why...

Bye bye

No Justice - No Peace.

So long and have fun in Turkiye

[bell-the-cat]

Why are you here then?

Probably it was like flipping over a big rock to see what was underneath. She saw a lot of little bugs scurrying around, unaccustomed to the light (in this case, the light was being shone by a well-meaning and intelligent Turk). But the bugs don't like light, will never like light, and in the end there isn't much interest in just watching bugs scurrying about in panic: they are just bugs after all. So I guess Lal has decided there are more useful things to do.

[Gavur]

this is my last post here,than ı will disappear.

everybody says, they want peace,but nobody wants it really. it is easy to fight ,it is difficult to make peace. because to make peace both sides must be brave enough to come closer to each other and swallow some difficult things.

but before ı leave you, with your dreams of getting your lands back,ı just remind you to look at phalestein.for such a small land ,they are fighting tens of years and 9.11 ,islamist terrorizm,multicultural clashes are all a result of that small land piece.

Turkey is 16 th bigest economy of the world ,although its people are not rich or fully free. Turkey is the only muslim populated country trying to prove that islam and democracy can work together.so it is a test arena. I know that it will never be accepted to eu. but ı say at least talks must go on,so that my country cant be the land of your counterparts here. İf we are thrown away ,all the muslims of the world is following eu-turkey relations very carefully, will get a messege that muslims are not wanted by west ,no matter whatever they do and there will be a thick line between islam and christianity.


ı respect your choice of power struggles.if you think turkey is a country to be handled easily, by many methods and it is very easy to achieve armenians goals this way, good luck to you in your mission impossible. this means that you will carry the problem to your grand children and this way will keep armenian identity alive for many more years. this is your real goal ,not armenias happiness.

ı think untill today, diaspora armenians did a wonderful good job to keep their cause alive. this is good for turks also on the road of civilization.

however,you dont play with the game the same tactics for ever.you have to adjust to new conditions. world is changed. our countries are not ours any more. big giant componies are all over the world,foreigners buying lands everywhere, our national basketball,football teams have brazilian,nigerian ,other nationality players. nationality concept is changing.one day we will all be world people.

at this moment Our bosses are multicultural and world people,But we ordinary people are not free to work and live everywhere.ı wonder why...

Bye bye

I believe there is a bridge between true believers of Islam and Christianity or whatever , it is called Sufi.

[Gavur]

Probably it was like flipping over a big rock to see what was underneath. She saw a lot of little bugs scurrying around, unaccustomed to the light (in this case, the light was being shone by a well-meaning and intelligent Turk). But the bugs don't like light, will never like light, and in the end there isn't much interest in just watching bugs scurrying about in panic: they are just bugs after all. So I guess Lal has decided there are more useful things to do.

On the contrary, I agree with the pattern we all including Crusader is smart enough to observe about Turks from all colors that very few of them hang around long enough to learn anything.
They just won't listen.

[imported_crusader1492]

On the contrary, I agree with the pattern we all including Crusader is smart enough to observe about Turks from all colors that very few of them hang around long enough to learn anything.
They just won't listen.

Zealots (even athiest ones), do not like to be challenged
Lal is just one example of this. Scratch the surface of most Turks on these forums and they either bark or leave.

Lal left...guess who sticks around and barks.