Parallel Roads

[phantom]

Well, Joseph, I admit maybe I got a little emotional. But I think you overreacted as well. I didn’t die ofcous from this 2 days ban, but it is pathetic for me to be banned from this forum. If you do not get why now may be you will understand that some day. I wouldn’t guaranty integrity of any other site where I was limited of my freedom of expression. But for obvious reasons in this case it is pathetic too.
You said: “it’s not what you say, but how you say it”. Well, Joseph, firstly: English is my 4th language, some times I can not express myself the way you do, I haven’t been born in US and haven’t got the education in English, my schools and colleges were quit different from yours, but believe me I have learned a lot what you do not learn in school (although I eventually have done my Academic education in the best university of my country and continued it abroad). But anyway I do not feel like chewing always the same ideas in my posts and putting them in mouth of others to be easy to swallow, I make short points and try create momentum for a discussion or conversation, I do expect minimum level of intellect from opponent. I think my posts until now all have made some sense.
I know we defend the same cause although you do it your way (by running this forum) and I did it in more than one ways (at the moment by some reasons, temporary I am very limited in my options and I am doing what I can do ) so lets respect each other and be a little more patient. If you feel like banning me for good it is in your power as moderator and I guaranty there will not be any consequences from my part as I think what you do in this forum does make some sense. But personally I do not see any reason for that.

Vahe, I'm glad you're back. I enjoy your posts, and I learned a good lesson from my own response to one of them: make sure I know what was meant in a post before running to unfounded conclusions.

[hitite]

I don’t expect the Turks to accept anything at all Hitite, in fact I don’t care what they accept after denying everything for so long. We know your marching orders from your false Idol

http://www.tsk.mil.tr/eng/gecmisten_...s/by/2_eng.jpg

Well Turks may really care about what you feel so doesn't that make us look stupid. Nevertheless if Turks accept, deny acknowledge th AG sometime in the future it will not matter if you care or not. I have the feeling that if this or the like happened and Turkey became a country of European style freedoms and prosperity (which is not perfect of course) Armenian hardliners would feel devastated. But I surely do know that MANY Armenians, especially those in Armenia would cherish and benifit greatly from this sort of Turkey. Maybe you dont care but there are a lot more Armenians around this part of the world that DO care. However your indifference is still understandable.

The link you gave: http://www.tsk.mil.tr/eng/gecmisten_...s/by/2_eng.jpg I think are words that any great leader would leave as legacy to their youth. Ok I'm not going to get into an endless argument as to whether he was a great leader or not but if you change the words Turk, Turkish and Turkey to Armenian and Armenia you will see they are a little more than marching orders. So you should actually give him credit for that.

If you think our efforts to get US congress to pass the AG bill is strictly politics then you really are confused.


Like I have said before, this is between Armenia and US and has nothing to do with Turkey recognizing anything. I don’t want relations with Turks. I could never Trust Turks. I want this Turkish government to pay for its freaking crimes against my people and stop hurting its Armenian population. We will never allow you to get away with it; we owe this to ourselves and to our ancestors who cry from their graves for justice.

You may have misunderstood me, Armenian efforts to get US congress to pass the bill sure is not "purely" political, maybe a good deal of it is. But the way the US is using this against Turkey and the way they have given false promises to US Armenians for decades, actually lying to them is shining bright power politics.

All the stuff you want from Turkey can only happen if you have relations with Turks. It is not going to happen sitting in your suburban home, and the US sure isnt going to do it for you. So if you dont want relations with Turks, buddy you aint getting nothing from us.

[hitite]

Bad language really annoys me, I like my daughter to read this forum, she's 11, and needs to understand her heritage...

I will be more careful; but you know sometimes you just gotta say it...

[Sako]

you are right ,ı must not try to solve the political problems as if ı know everything well,who am ı? it is none of my business.armenian ,azeri,,turkish governments can solve it themselves. ı sound stupit offering solutions. but ı want real peace, and people loving each other again,thats why ı try to offer something. not to beat you.but sometimes ı can get very defensive and bad,ı know,this is my character,ı dont like to be attacked.

Don't we all? Lal, what I'm saying is that you should not talk VERY convincingly when you don't know much and then go against us when we tell you the truth or what's going on. It puts us in a stupid state. How are we supposed to talk to you? I try so hard not to say anything offensive to you even in the slightest way. I try to stay calm and not be too hard on you. Believe it or not, I almost completely understand what you’re going through. You’re not the only one that has gone through strange feelings. Share your feelings and I ask everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, to relax and talk without punky mini-lines. In return, I ask you Lal to be more careful what you say but not afraid to say something. That's ridiculous, what else are these forums for? If you don't know something PERFECTLY well, don't be so convinced and don't try to convince everyone, it starts to become offensive. At that point, we don't look at you as the lovely Lal, we look at you as a rival (not in a bad way), someone we must explain the situation to very seriously. Soon many forget you don't know English properly and all this crap happens. You feel we disrespect you and what not. Let's all calm down and listen to each other as human beings not as Turks and Armenians. If there is something you didn't understand, tell me.

100 years has passed, but many of you still speak some turkish. this is exactly why ı understand the pain. ı never think armenians are foreigners. maybe you will get very offended again, but ı personally consider armenians almost like christian turks.

Why should we be offended, it almost sounds funny ? I get what you mean and I hope everyone feels that way soon. It was almost completely that way in the past and it is in many respects today. Any objections?

ı dont say these words to make you people love me, but ı really started to realise that it is my duty to work for the armenians, in turkey. as long as accepting the genocide officially, may bring some threats for turkish state, like compansations and giving lands, they may never accept it. but ı individually one more time ,and very sincerely apologise for the things happened from armenians.

I have explained this issue in great detail Lal but if you want I'll start from square one again. I’m ready to help.

it is very difficult for me to take a stand completely opposite of the state, unlike mr arda .ı cant go that further. but ı simply dont buy the things deniers talk about. not humanistic and not logical , and not even for the benefit of turkey.

You have already done a lot, don’t ever doubt that. If you can’t take a stand, help us, but don’t stop us from taking a stand either. You want to have happy relations between Turks and Armenians? We’ll have to work our minds and bodies very hard then. Nothing comes for free, Lal. Sitting and waiting won’t get us anywhere at all. Please share your feelings and let us all be more considerate. And please be careful what you say again unless you are simply letting out ideas in which case let us know. We may all be great friends but this issue is very serious and one wrong word or phrase can spark a fire. This is natural, don’t think Armenians are stupid and that’s why this happens.

Hey Hitite, there is no such thing as “that kind of Armenians”. Saco is trying very hard, with much credit to him, to bridge the gap between the young generation of Armenians and Turks which could bring more understanding of each other. That is a lot more than anybody can claim that they are doing and that my friend should be commanded and encouraged rather than be ridiculed like you have done.
This shows how desperately Turkey needs to continue to paint Armenians as monsters and to alienate them while Armenians, specifically our younger generation like Saco, try to connect and solve the problems despite what his people have gone through by the hands of your countrymen.

Thank you Edoman Jan, I think Hitite just had a clumsy moment, we all do. We both went a bit in the wrong direction. It would be an honor to work with him someday. We can’t do anything alone.

Can you understand how hard it is to do what he is trying to do, especially someone with no connection whatsoever to Turks (blood line or country of residence)?

Hitite has also done a lot. I’ve been here for only two months. And anyways, no matter what I do, you guys will always be one step above me, I’m not just saying that.

Well Turks may really care about what you feel so doesn't that make us look stupid. Nevertheless if Turks accept, deny acknowledge th AG sometime in the future it will not matter if you care or not. I have the feeling that if this or the like happened and Turkey became a country of European style freedoms and prosperity (which is not perfect of course) Armenian hardliners would feel devastated. But I surely do know that MANY Armenians, especially those in Armenia would cherish and benifit greatly from this sort of Turkey. Maybe you dont care but there are a lot more Armenians around this part of the world that DO care. However your indifference is still understandable.

I may not have understood how it all came to this but I don’t think Edoman is indifferent. He said that for a reason, not just out of the blue. How can we be indifferent? We’re working hard here and for what if we’re indifferent?

I will be more careful; but you know sometimes you just gotta say it...

And sometimes you just don’t …

[VaheTheGreat(e)]

Vahe, I'm glad you're back. I enjoy your posts, and I learned a good lesson from my own response to one of them: make sure I know what was meant in a post before running to unfounded conclusions.

Thanks , phantom, my brother

[ardakilic]

There may be a chance to visit Tsitsernakaberd in April hopefully. I try to arrange, i hope!

Is there anybody who wants to advice me something?

[Edoman]

Well Turks may really care about what you feel so doesn't that make us look stupid. Nevertheless if Turks accept, deny acknowledge th AG sometime in the future it will not matter if you care or not. I have the feeling that if this or the like happened and Turkey became a country of European style freedoms and prosperity (which is not perfect of course) Armenian hardliners would feel devastated. But I surely do know that MANY Armenians, especially those in Armenia would cherish and benifit greatly from this sort of Turkey. Maybe you dont care but there are a lot more Armenians around this part of the world that DO care. However your indifference is still understandable.

The link you gave: http://www.tsk.mil.tr/eng/gecmisten_...s/by/2_eng.jpg I think are words that any great leader would leave as legacy to their youth. Ok I'm not going to get into an endless argument as to whether he was a great leader or not but if you change the words Turk, Turkish and Turkey to Armenian and Armenia you will see they are a little more than marching orders. So you should actually give him credit for that.



You may have misunderstood me, Armenian efforts to get US congress to pass the bill sure is not "purely" political, maybe a good deal of it is. But the way the US is using this against Turkey and the way they have given false promises to US Armenians for decades, actually lying to them is shining bright power politics.

All the stuff you want from Turkey can only happen if you have relations with Turks. It is not going to happen sitting in your suburban home, and the US sure isnt going to do it for you. So if you dont want relations with Turks, buddy you aint getting nothing from us.

Hitite, did you read my post correctly? What I said is that I do not care what this Turkish government accepts after denying everything for so long. If the Turkish people (mainstream) want to wake up and redeem themselves… well Hell, that is just fine with me Ace. We will even give you a shoulder to cry on, how is that?


Come on now, don’t make me laugh. You must think we are fools to believe that US is using the AG Bill against the Armenians in any serious way other than the normal "vote for me" but you know what...
I have a feeling that what you and your government are really saying is that if we Armenians ever want to see this AG Bill get passed in US congress then we better start complying with Turkish demands because we the Turks can put such a squeeze on the US administration that Obama would be sorry he ever brought up the word Genocide.
This is in fact a step back for you from turkey’s stand of “We will never allow this Bill to pass come hell or high water”. What is wrong now? The pressure is too much?

Let me explain again. This is not an Armenian problem as much as your Government would like to make it. Your Governments ultimatums to Armenians in Diaspora are empty and we also know that it would be a political suicide for you to go ahead with any of your plans of Hurting Mother Armenia.

Let me repeat again. We do not want anything from Turkey, at least not yet. We can make deals later. But since you asked Hitite, it would be great if Turkey could stop blackmailing US and Israel for just one year, preferably this year; look what is happening in your country… but that is not your style now is it.


Ataturks Marching orders to future Turks, in short:

---Every entity outside Turkey and anybody inside Turkey… even your blood brother can become the enemy of the state, including your so called leaders; it will be up to you my children to figure out who these traitors are and destroy them. Your power is in your Turkishness.---

Now that’s inspirational. Turkish Democracy at its best.

[Sako]

There may be a chance to visit Tsitsernakaberd in April hopefully. I try to arrange, i hope!

Is there anybody who wants to advice me something?

Just get over here and leave the rest to me !

[VaheTheGreat(e)]

There may be a chance to visit Tsitsernakaberd in April hopefully. I try to arrange, i hope!

Is there anybody who wants to advice me something?

You need just a ticket to yerevan, some people will tack care of you in Yerevan, it will tack just a call from me

[Steph]

You need just a ticket to yerevan, some people will tack care of you in Yerevan, it will tack just a call from me

Vahe, you're wonderful, offering a relative stranger the hospitality of your friends. I'm sure Arda will enjoy!!!