Parallel Roads

[jgk3]

Re: Parallel Roads

Bell and I have had our dissagreements but I agree with much of what he wrote above. Although I have a higher opinion of AG forum than bell, we were just starting to achieve something and it is gone; we were never even warned.

Joseph, could you describe what was being achieved?

[Anonymouse]

Re: Parallel Roads

You seem to have limited expectations about the potentual value of forums, and a casual disregard about their potentual harm. I'm not going to apologise for still having high expectations. There are no "Turkish forums" or academic circles for ordinary Turks to go to and engage with non-Turks about Armenian Genocide issues, so they came here (here being armeniangenocide.com). They were mostly far more serious about the issue than most Armenians seem to be, and they expected a proper, serious forum to express their opinions. AG forum at its best only barely served that function, hyeclub doesn't come even close to serving it.

I don't disagree with what you were saying earlier, but my point is you can't have high expectations on an internet forum that is public, despite your appeal to the contrary. It just can't happen. This is neither a university setting or a research institution nor an academic journal or group. And your concern about merging of the forums is also irrelevant because such decisions were undertaken not with these lofty goals that you have in mind, but based on purely administrative and cost-benefit purposes. If you don't like it, perhaps you are willing to incur the costs of running a server so that only the most highly academic of discussions are allowed, along with the most serious-minded posters? Again, I don't disagree with your point in theory, but in practice it's a totally different thing.

While many Armenians here take these here forums for granted and express some blind nationalistic zeal and resort to name-calling and insults, that does not take away from the fact that this is still not an academic circle even if some Turks want to take it seriously. One could very well argue that both the Turks and the nationalistic Armenians take it seriously, albeit in different ways and via their own perceptions of what they deem 'proper'.

Calling upon Armenians here to face the reality of addressing this sensitive topic in a more cordial and civil fashion as opposed to the blind moronic name-calling displayed by Hellektor or others due to misplaced nationalistic allegiance which has replaced the genuine pursuit of addressing genocide denial head first, is a totally different issue than what you seem to be concerned about, namely some 'serious avenue' which is a hub of 'scholarly debates'. While the discussions can and do result and resort to scholarly tendencies and aspects, that should not be confused with somehow transforming this place or any other public forum into a hub of scholarship in its own right.

If that is what we want, we wouldn't be a public forum, we would aim to be an invite only group based on some strict screening guidelines.

[Steph]

Re: Parallel Roads

Joseph, could you describe what was being achieved?

Over recent months the AG Forum was being used by an increasing number of turks. turks who recognised the Genocide, who had protested about Hrant Dink's assassination, who had signed the apology, who looked for a forum where they could discuss their positions. turks who were genuine contributors to the cause of recognition.
Where are those members now? Will they come here?
The fact that no warning was given, usernames changed shows a certain lack of respect for AGF members, I personally couldn't log on, flitted around to find my log in details. How many others won't?

Also, can you tell me why this site actually disrespects it's own rules regarding advertisements, foul and disrespectful language between members.
Whilst not a perfect intellectual site, I believe the AGF was mid-shelf whereas this combined forum has parts certainly that are top-shelf.
A recent post concerned the "white" genocide of assimilation, I allowed my 11 yr old daughter to visit AGF to contribute just a little to her heritage, I will not allow her access here.

[jgk3]

Re: Parallel Roads

I will take your response into serious consideration, I will discuss it with the administration here.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Parallel Roads

I don't disagree with what you were saying earlier, but my point is you can't have high expectations on an internet forum that is public, despite your appeal to the contrary. It just can't happen. This is neither a university setting or a research institution nor an academic journal or group. And your concern about merging of the forums is also irrelevant because such decisions were undertaken not with these lofty goals that you have in mind, but based on purely administrative and cost-benefit purposes. If you don't like it, perhaps you are willing to incur the costs of running a server so that only the most highly academic of discussions are allowed, along with the most serious-minded posters? Again, I don't disagree with your point in theory, but in practice it's a totally different thing.

While many Armenians here take these here forums for granted and express some blind nationalistic zeal and resort to name-calling and insults, that does not take away from the fact that this is still not an academic circle even if some Turks want to take it seriously. One could very well argue that both the Turks and the nationalistic Armenians take it seriously, albeit in different ways and via their own perceptions of what they deem 'proper'.

Calling upon Armenians here to face the reality of addressing this sensitive topic in a more cordial and civil fashion as opposed to the blind moronic name-calling displayed by Hellektor or others due to misplaced nationalistic allegiance which has replaced the genuine pursuit of addressing genocide denial head first, is a totally different issue than what you seem to be concerned about, namely some 'serious avenue' which is a hub of 'scholarly debates'. While the discussions can and do result and resort to scholarly tendencies and aspects, that should not be confused with somehow transforming this place or any other public forum into a hub of scholarship in its own right.

If that is what we want, we wouldn't be a public forum, we would aim to be an invite only group based on some strict screening guidelines.

You say "This is neither a university setting or a research institution nor an academic journal or group". Why should serious discussions be limited to just those settings? Are ordinary people incapable of serious discussions? Have they to be completely disenfranchised from the issue?

The internet, if used positively, can help to end elitist attitudes like that. It is sad that you, a smart and incisive person, have limited your aspirations for it to such a degree that you can state "It just can't happen". AG forum, however limited in effectiveness, was still trying to "make it happen", and was not a secretive, invite-only group based on strict screening. And that is the best proof that there has not been a merging of two forums, it is actually the extinction of one for "cost-benefit purposes".

[jgk3]

Re: Parallel Roads

again bell, if you are so strong in your ideals, you could put forth the small monetary sum to achieve those ends, in fact I encourage that if you continue to show such hostility to our new merger situation. We have to make the best of this and adjust through a series of discussions, agreements and finally, implementations, not through condemnation of eachother, you're not helping any more than our "fascists" are helping.

By teaching the other side what the AG forums were about, I think we can come to some kind of agreement.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Parallel Roads

You say "This is neither a university setting or a research institution nor an academic journal or group". Why should serious discussions be limited to just those settings? Are ordinary people incapable of serious discussions? Have they to be completely disenfranchised from the issue?

The internet, if used positively, can help to end elitist attitudes like that. It is sad that you, a smart and incisive person, have limited your aspirations for it to such a degree that you can state "It just can't happen". AG forum, however limited in effectiveness, was still trying to "make it happen", and was not a secretive, invite-only group based on strict screening. And that is the best proof that there has not been a merging of two forums, it is actually the extinction of one for "cost-benefit purposes".

I think, all this boils down to, is not about academia, issues, genocide vs. no genocide, serious discussion vs non-serious discussion, but it's just about your sense of loss of the little forum community that you had. And that's fine. I understand. But we have to go with what we have. I'm sorry it's not what you want, but we cannot satisfy every individual person's want here. In an ideal setting, we would have individual forums. Hell, if you can cough up the money, we can.

[crusader1492]

Re: Parallel Roads

I think, all this boils down to, is not about academia, issues, genocide vs. no genocide, serious discussion vs non-serious discussion, but it's just about your sense of loss of the little forum community that you had. And that's fine. I understand. But we have to go with what we have. I'm sorry it's not what you want, but we cannot satisfy every individual person's want here. In an ideal setting, we would have individual forums. Hell, if you can cough up the money, we can.

What ind of money are we talking about?

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Parallel Roads

Depends on the size of the forum and how much bandwidth, if this is more than a few gigs its gonna cost a bit. However if anyone has a permanenet uncapped net connection, you can essenially host it yourself, especially if you have permanent Leased line for free.