Turkey will be split apart as Iraq is.

[gegev]

Re: Turkey will be split apart as Iraq is.

Repeating same thing wont help discussion.
Armenia is realy an unimportant problem at EU-Turkey relationship. So It is not a good weapon for Armenia.

Geopolitical situation in the world is radically changed.

Several years ago Turkey, perhaps, through establishing diplomatic relations with Armenia, could slow down the AG recognition process. At that point they had the best "know-how" and "new" technologies in the population reproduction and in Turkish - diplomacy (mainly-lying) "Industries".

They thought Turkey can prevent Genocide recognition process even without easing down, a little bit, the pressure exerted on RoA. The hatred against Armenians prevented them to set the "diplomatic trap" for RoA; which could assist them to declare that the Genocide issue is a Turkey – Armenia bilateral problem and only the two countries should discuss and "settle" it during coming "centuries".

But now:

USA democrats won presidential elections; because voters want to return the USA army home, reduce the budget deficit, promote industrial growth and, at the same time, ensure that US strategic interests in the Middle East are not affected.

Democrats are patriots of their country, therefore their primary goal is not to maintain Iraq's territorial integrity; just to accommodate Turkey's national interests (Preventing Kurds to establish a Kurdish state in Iraq) at any cost to USA.

Growing instability in Iraq and collapse of USA projections on creating pro-American United Iraqi government, within reasonable cost and timeframe, failed. Because America wanted do it without breaking it into three states, Kurdish Sunni and Shia; to comfort Turkey’s national interests.

This radically changed political situation, during recent years, in USA. America, using its military superiority, rapidly occupied the country and apparently it was the most easy; first part of their plan.

And now they are unable (mission impossible) accomplish the second part of their plan, and the end, it is apparent, that way USA can not continue this war. Because, after occupying the country, when Americans are located inside, in large numbers, throughout Iraq, they can not use their only advantage; mass destruction weapons.

Meanwhile the Iraqi's have the most effective military means in that situation; the "alive weapons", suicide bombers (PS. – Christians don't have); who can not be attacked by the US mass destruction weapons, used at the start, to win Sadam. In this situation the bombardiers, helicopters artillery, tanks etc. are useless, most of time.

USA voter is aware that the dollar; the US most effective political and military tool is gradually becoming a second grade currency.

I guess, to adjust the situation above, and promote its national interests, US may act this way:

To justify next steps;

USA congress, first of all, needs to pass the bill; on the Armenian Genocide. Which, of cause, will serve as a legal and justifiable argument for the next steps below:

Letting, not preventing, Kurds create a puppet Kurdish state in Iraq, which will be a natural ally for America. Preliminarily, of cause, ensuring that; most of the Iraqi oil reserves are controlled by Kurds and make sure that they are properly armed to confront Shias, Sunni and eventually – Turkey to free their occupied land.

Expel Turkey form NATO, because USA will have several opportunities for relocating military bases in the region; Kurdistan, Georgia and perhaps the Sunni state.

Relocate military bases from Turkey to Kurdistan.

Return US army home.

Doing so America will enjoy, almost world wide support; because the action will help the justice to prevail. And for USA most important thing is that it will, first of all, serve American national interests. Of cause Kurds and Armenia will benefit from this too. But, you know, this is not the primary goal of the action above.

What happened to France-Turkish relations after passing the Armenian Genocide bill … nothing! Now Turks are handling their politics with France more cautiously and politely, than ever before, that is the results are positive for France.

Regards Gegev

[Eddo211]

Re: Turkey will be split apart as Iraq is.

Your warrior gods must have given you the wrong pacifier this morning Nobody said Turkish pilots are the best in the world.... where is this feeling of inferiority coming from all of a sudden?

What gets under my skin is the blatant lying/insults and the lack of professionalism that comes from you guy . The Turkish B-737 that crashed in Amsterdam just lately is a good example. First your government stated that the pilot’s heroic efforts saved many lives after the airplane experienced catastrophic structural failure (blaming the aircraft manufacturer Boing who lost three engineers in this crash as passengers). Then later it was reported by Turkish Airline pilots that the crash was due to wake turbulence (pointing the blame to air traffic controllers for not giving proper separation).

Well, come to find out from the black box that this Turkish crew knew about a faulty altimeter that feeds the autopilot, even worst is that they allowed the auto landing system to fly the airplane which initiated the landing flare 1000 feet above the ground and to top it off they failed to recover in a timely manner………….all pointing to pilot error for flying with a known problem, not hand flying the aircraft so close to the ground, not having situational awareness (altitude/airspeed), poor judgment, showing lack of basic skills, and not reacting properly to emergency that they put themselves into. Your heroic captain Hasan Tahsin Arisan, was an experienced former Air force pilot.

There is a reason why turkeys can’t fly.

[hitite]

Re: Turkey will be split apart as Iraq is.

Yea but not much has been happening since May 2006 when them two Greek F-16s made a fool out of your two Turkish pilots in a mock Dogfight over Aegean………………..right after one of your jets made a sudden provocetive manoeuvre that violated air-traffic rules and could have been almost e classifyed as provoking War between the two countries.

Too bad your humiliated pilot lost his cool after the conclusion of the engagement and decided to ram the Greek Jet from behind instead of heading home.

This is proof that you have learned nothing from your training over the hot deserts of Tucson Arizona. I get the lowdown that comes from some of your American flight Instructors and they indicated indirectly that you can’t handle pressure let alone multitasking/prioritizing in a highly volatile and stressful environment but wait, it does however seem like you have learned the classic desperate Nazi’s Luftapha offensive of "ramming technique" used in WWII which fits right in with the Fascist/borderline Jihadist mentality……….but the German pilots were taking out Bombers valiently, not other fighters in a fit of anger.

That kind of mentality will only get you killed up there Turk. Lucky your Government has decided not to “play” anymore.........Ha.

Your warrior gods must have given you the wrong pacifier this morning Nobody said Turkish pilots are the best in the world.... where is this feeling of inferiority coming from all of a sudden?

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey will be split apart as Iraq is.

Hi Alexandros,

If you look at the Turkey's progress for EU, you'll notice the great drag after the initial fast period after Erdogan came to power. Whoever came to power at that time HAD TO pass these regulations because political scene was pressing for it and good relations with EU had a political gain behind it. Erdogan semi-dictatorship leadership reinforced its power among intellectual elite at those times. Once he was done with gaining the overall support for his first term, he stopped making any move towards other regulations. This includes the progress in Kurdish problem as well. And believe me, EU is not among the top priority list of AKP supporters.

may,

had CHP or MHP garnered the votes as AKP did back in 2002, I highly doubt that they would have implemented the reforms that AKP did regardless of the "political scene"; CHP and MHP seems to be competing with each other with who is more nationalistic but nationalism won`t solve Turkey`s economical, social... problems.By the way, I think that it would had been easier for AKP(and frankly for other parties as well if that was their intention) to make "real" changes if it wasn`t for the Turkish military`s influence in politics.

The Turkish military has made it very clear that they won`t bow to EU`s demands since the EU has said that the Turkish military must stay out of politics and must be under civilian control and not vice versa...

[Eddo211]

Re: Turkey will be split apart as Iraq is.

Wha what do you mean my dear may?
Everything I have said is practically common knowledge and can be attained easily in the aviation industry. You yourself could get access to some of that information if you knew where to look without being a professional Aviator who has friends in this field.

........was aware that you know anything about Turkish domestic, international politics, people.........

Most of the time I wing it may.

[may]

Re: Turkey will be split apart as Iraq is.

Yea but not much has been happening since May 2006 when them two Greek F-16s made a fool out of your two Turkish pilots in a mock Dogfight over Aegean………………..right after one of your jets made a sudden provocetive manoeuvre that violated air-traffic rules and could have been almost e classifyed as provoking War between the two countries.

Too bad your humiliated pilot lost his cool after the conclusion of the engagement and decided to ram the Greek Jet from behind instead of heading home.

This is proof that you have learned nothing from your training over the hot deserts of Tucson Arizona. I get the lowdown that comes from some of your American flight Instructors and they indicated indirectly that you can’t handle pressure let alone multitasking/prioritizing in a highly volatile and stressful environment but wait, it does however seem like you have learned the classic desperate Nazi’s Luftapha offensive of "ramming technique" used in WWII which fits right in with the Fascist/borderline Jihadist mentality……….but the German pilots were taking out Bombers valiently, not other fighters in a fit of anger.

That kind of mentality will only get you killed up there Turk. Lucky your Government has decided not to “play” anymore.........Ha.

I was aware that you know anything about Turkish domestic, international politics, people... But with this post I learned about your in depth knowledge about Greek and Turkish pilots, how Turkish pilots are trained, what are their characteristics... You can even give date for the end of dog fights (along with details of how the last one happened) in Egean Sea. I am impressed! I am not sure how many state officials have access to such data...

This kind of self confidence with "know everything" attitude will get you being ridiculed elsewhere Eddo, a friendly warning... What a self confidence!! I'm really impressed...

[may]

Re: Turkey will be split apart as Iraq is.

Erdogan has made it very clear that he wants Turkey to join the EU.Many of his voters knows that very well considering that they have been in power since 2002.And from what I know, is that AKP is going to win - not in all regions and citys but in many of them if you are to believe the latest polls.

Hi Alexandros,

If you look at the Turkey's progress for EU, you'll notice the great drag after the initial fast period after Erdogan came to power. Whoever came to power at that time HAD TO pass these regulations because political scene was pressing for it and good relations with EU had a political gain behind it. Erdogan semi-dictatorship leadership reinforced its power among intellectual elite at those times. Once he was done with gaining the overall support for his first term, he stopped making any move towards other regulations. This includes the progress in Kurdish problem as well. And believe me, EU is not among the top priority list of AKP supporters.

[Eddo211]

Re: Turkey will be split apart as Iraq is.

.........3- This has been going on for years and I think we should both shake hands and accept the fact that TR and GR airplanes just need to have their occasional dog fight over the Aegean. Its good training for pilots.

Yea but not much has been happening since May 2006 when them two Greek F-16s made a fool out of your two Turkish pilots in a mock Dogfight over Aegean………………..right after one of your jets made a sudden provocetive manoeuvre that violated air-traffic rules and could have been almost e classifyed as provoking War between the two countries.

Too bad your humiliated pilot lost his cool after the conclusion of the engagement and decided to ram the Greek Jet from behind instead of heading home.

This is proof that you have learned nothing from your training over the hot deserts of Tucson Arizona. I get the lowdown that comes from some of your American flight Instructors and they indicated indirectly that you can’t handle pressure let alone multitasking/prioritizing in a highly volatile and stressful environment but wait, it does however seem like you have learned the classic desperate Nazi’s Luftapha offensive of "ramming technique" used in WWII which fits right in with the Fascist/borderline Jihadist mentality……….but the German pilots were taking out Bombers valiently, not other fighters in a fit of anger.

That kind of mentality will only get you killed up there Turk. Lucky your Government has decided not to “play” anymore.........Ha.

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey will be split apart as Iraq is.

Would Turkey be more democratic if EU norms were not implemented? Probably no, but for NOW. But nobody can claim that these regulations will not be demanded by the Turkish citizens as well in close future. And who knows, maybe with a delay, these regulations would be implemented with public support instead of top-down laws and better embraced by the people.

Erdogan has made it very clear that he wants Turkey to join the EU.Many of his voters knows that very well considering that they have been in power since 2002.And from what I know, is that AKP is going to win - not in all regions and citys but in many of them if you are to believe the latest polls.

[may]

Re: Turkey will be split apart as Iraq is.

And lastly, you could always pick an issue here or there and accuse the EU for double-standards but what the Turks should ask themselves is that: would Turkey been more democratic today if they didn`t implement all those reforms in order to join the EU?(I`m not trying to excuse the flaws in the EU)

Hi Alexandros, I am aware that criticising is an easy thing, especially for complex instutions like EU. My main point was assessing Turkey's membership in the light of her relations with neighbours: There are more important, unavoidable issues to be resolved before it comes to neighbor relations.

That being said, the regulations for EU are not issues that EU invented. EU, with all the double standards, want to play the world's new power, an example of a country(!) with all "humanistic" values in the world. EU tries to represent the "west" and its "values". The world politics demand such regulations, and EU tries to put an example of an instutition with all the regulations that world demands. As Gandhi put it about western civilization, "it would be a very good idea". However, as historically the case for Europe, Europeans are not good followers of "their values" when it works against their benefit. EU members fail to act in coherence to implement those regulations that they force EU candidate countries to accept.

Would Turkey be more democratic if EU norms were not implemented? Probably no, but for NOW. But nobody can claim that these regulations will not be demanded by the Turkish citizens as well in close future. And who knows, maybe with a delay, these regulations would be implemented with public support instead of top-down laws and better embraced by the people.

Still, I am happy about these regulations to be passed as laws in Turkey. But whenever EU is pointed as the body that those regulations materalize as flesh&blood, I remember these "unfortunate" facts about how they are implemented in EU.