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  • #71
    Winston Churchill

    ...

    At the moment the Great War began Armenia, divided between Russia and Turkey, repressed by force or actual massacre, had no defense but secret societies and no weapons but intrigue and assassination. The War drew upon them a new train of evils. After the Balkan Wars the Pan-Turks cast away both 'Ottomanization' and 'Turkification' as means for recreating the State. They attributed the disasters which the Turkish Empire had sustained in part to the opposition of the non-Turkish races in their midst. In blunt but significant language they concluded that these races 'were not worth considering; they were worse than encumbrances; they could go to the devil.' The re-created State for which patriotic Turks hoped must be formed by Turks alone.

    The goal, if attainable, could be reached only by a long road and hard. The sooner therefore the Turkish people set out upon it in deadly earnest, the better. The Turks took this road from 1912 onwards; and the fact that they had done so went long unrecognized in Europe. The Armenians were, however, better informed. They saw that the incorporation of the Moslem areas of Caucasia in a great Turkish State would, if carried to achievement, place the Armenian plateau, including Russian Armenia, under Turkish sovereignty and jeopardize the whole future of their race. The outbreak of the Great War brought these issues to a head. The Turkish Government in furtherance of their own aims tried to secure Armenian support of Russian Armenians. A grim alternative was presented to the Armenian leaders. Should they throw their national weight as far as it lay in their power on the side of Russia or of Turkey, or should they let their people be divided and driven into battle against each other? They took the remarkable decision that if war should come, their people in Turkey and in Russia should do their duty to their respective Governments. They thought it better to face fratricidal strife in the quarrels of others than to stake their existence upon the victory of either side.

    When Turkey attacked Russian Armenia, the Czar's Government, fearing that a successful defense of Caucasia by Armenians would dangerously inflame the Nationalist aspirations of the race, conveyed a hundred and fifty thousand Armenian conscripts to the Polish and Galician fronts and brought other Russian troops to defend Armenian hearths and homes in Caucasia. Few of these hundred and fifty thousand Armenian soldiers survived the European battles or were able to return to Caucasia before the end of the War. This was hard measure. But worse remained. The Turkish war plan failed. Their offensive against Caucasia in December 1914 and January 1915 was defeated. They recoiled in deep resentment. They accused the Armenians of the Turkish eastern districts of having acted as spies and agents on behalf of Russia, and of having assailed the Turkish lines of communication. These charges were probably true; but true or false, they provoked a vengeance which was also in accord with deliberate policy. In 1915 the Turkish Government began and ruthlessly carried out the infamous general massacre and deportation of Armenians in Asia Minor. Three or four hundred thousand men, women, and children escaped into Russian territory and others into Persia or Mesopotamia; but the clearance of the race from Asia Minor was about as complete as such an act, on a scale so great, could well be. It is supposed that about one and a quarter millions of Armenians were involved, of whom more than half perished. There is no reasonable doubt that this crime was planned and executed for political reasons. The opportunity presented itself for clearing Turkish soil of a Christian race opposed to all Turkish ambitions, cherishing national ambitions that could only be satisfied at the expense of Turkey, and planted geographically between Turkish and Caucasian Moslems. It may well be that the British attack on the Gallipoli Peninsula stimulated the merciless fury of the Turkish Government. Even, thought the Pan-Turks, if Constantinople were to fall and Turkey lost the war, the clearance would have been effected and a permanent advantage for the future of the Turkish race would be granted.

    Early in 1918 the Russian Army of the Caucasus abandoned the front in Asia Minor and dissolved into an armed rabble struggling to entrain for home. The Russians had gone. The Turks had not yet come. A desperate effort was made by the remaining Armenian manhood to defend their country. The Armenian elements of the Russian Army therefore held together, and with the help of volunteers succeeded for a time in holding back the Turkish advance. Their hundred and fifty thousand soldiers were already dead or scattered, and they could never muster more than 35,000 men. The Treaty of Brest-Litvosk in February 1918 was the signal for a general Turkish advance eastward. The Armenian line was overwhelmed; and by May not only had the Turks recovered the districts occupied by the Grand Duke, but they had taken the districts of Batum, Kars and Ardahan and were preparing to advance to the Caspian.

    At the very moment when the Turks had reached the goal in Caucasia for which they had run such risks and to which they had waded through crime and slaughter, their whole State and structure fell prostrate. The Armenian people emerged from the Great War scattered, extirpated in many districts, and reduced through massacre, losses of war and enforce deportations adopted as an easy system of killing, by at least a third. Out of a community of about two and a half millions, three-quarters of a million men, women, and children had perished. But surely this was the end.

    The earlier miseries and massacres of the Armenians have been made familiar to the British people, and indeed to the Liberal world, by the fame and eloquence of Mr. Gladstone. Opinions about them differed, one school dwelling upon their sufferings and the other upon their failings. But at any rate in contrast to the general indifference with which the fortunes of Eastern and Middle-Eastern peoples were followed by the Western democracies, the Armenians and their tribulations were well known throughout England and the United States. This field of interest was lighted by the lamps of religion, philanthropy and politics. Atrocities perpetrated upon Armenians stirred the ire of simple and chivalrous men and women spread widely about the English-speaking world. Now was the moment when at last the Armenians would receive justice and the right to live in peace in their national home. Their persecutors and tyrants had been laid low by war or revolution. The greatest nations in the hour of their victory were their friends, and would see them righted.

    It seemed inconceivable that the five great Allies would not be able to make their will effective. The reader of these pages will however be under no illusions. By the time the conquerors in Paris reached the Armenian question their unity was dissolved, their armies had disappeared and their resolves commanded naught but empty words. No power would take a mandate for Armenia. Britain, Italy, America, France looked at it and shook their heads. On March 12, 1920, the Supreme Council offered the mandate to the League of Nations. But the League, unsupported by men or money, promptly and with prudence declined. There remained the Treaty of Sèvres. On August 10 the Powers compelled the Constantinople Government to recognize an as yet undetermined Armenia as a free and independent State. Article 89 prescribed that Turkey must submit to 'the arbitration of the President of the United States of America the question of the frontier to be fixed between Turkey and Armenia in the vilayets of Erzeroum, Trebizond, Van and Bitlis, and to accept his decision thereupon, as well as any stipulation he may prescribe as to access of Armenia to the sea.' It was not until December 1920 that President Wilson completed the discharge of this high function. The frontier he defined gave Armenia virtually all the Turkish territory which had been occupied by Russian troops until they disbanded themselves under the influence of the Revolution; and era which, added to the Republic of Erivan, made an Armenian national homeland of nearly sixty thousand square miles.

    So generous was the recognition in theory of Armenian claims that the Armenian and Greek population of the new State was actually outnumbered by Moslem inhabitants. Here was justice and much more. It existed however upon paper only. Already nearly a year before, in January 1920, the Turks had attacked the French in Cilicia, driven them out of the Marash district and massacred nearly fifty thousand Armenian inhabitants. In May Bolshevik troops invaded and subjugated the Republic of Erivan. In September, by collusion between the Bolsheviks and Turks, Erivan was delivered to the Turkish Nationalists; and as in Cilicia, another extensive massacre of Armenians accompanied the military operations. Even the hope that a small autonomous Armenian province might eventually be established in Cilicia under French protection was destroyed. In October France, by the Agreement of Angora, undertook to evacuate Cilicia completely. In the Treaty of Lausanne, which registered the final peace between Turkey and the Great Powers, history will search in vain for the word 'Armenia'.


    Winston Churchill, The World Crisis, vol. 5, "The Aftermath" (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1929).

    Comment


    • #72
      Originally posted by cemil
      You started first, just like you started 100 years ago
      We started 700 years too late.

      Comment


      • #73
        Originally posted by cuddles20035
        Just so you know Hitler got his idea from the Turks "Who remembers the Armenians"
        Would you please repeat the following 1000 times "Hitler never said anything along the lines of "who remembers the Armenians". Try to get that fact into your head, and stop repeating laughable Armenian propaganda.
        Plenipotentiary meow!

        Comment


        • #74
          Originally posted by RookieArcher
          wow. winoman !
          Someone here revealed your IDç according to him, you worked for USA propaganda machine in Kosovo.
          I did not say that! I just said that he is employed by the US government and his work involves producing propaganda (including for the US millitary). I never said or implied anything about Kosovo, although, by his own words, he does seem to have been involved in it in some way, quote: "My plan - advocated to those who mattered BTW - was for the US to invite the Turks in as peacekeepers".
          Last edited by bell-the-cat; 05-10-2005, 07:00 AM.
          Plenipotentiary meow!

          Comment


          • #75
            Originally posted by winoman
            In fact you are wrong - for the most part these massacres were taking place. My wife headed an investigative commitee overseeing UN HCR efforts which went to Kosovo and to Bosnia (Sareajvo in particualr) and investigated these various massacres. WHile there was often discrepency regarding some of the particualrs and of course numbers of dead - these masscres did take place and round ups and detention of ethnic Muslim males - sometimes leading to massacre also occured and in large numbers- and BTW mass graves were found.
            I'd guess your knowledge of the issues surrounding the Armenian Genocide is not due to your partial Armenian ancestry, nor to any concern for truth and justice, but because of the vast number of ideas it provides for a professional truth-manipulator like yourself.

            Kosovo and Bosnia are different places and the events you seek to combine into one actually took place years apart. There were no widespread massacres in Kossovo, except for the post-conflict killing of Serbs, and the genocide that took place there was the post-conflict one inflicted on the Serbian population under the control of America and planned by Americans like you in advance. Did you get the idea to connect Kosovo and Bosnia from the Turks, I wonder. It's similar to their attempts to whitewash the Armenian Genocide in Turkey by linking it with Armenian attacks on Turks in 1918-20 in the Armenian republic.
            Plenipotentiary meow!

            Comment


            • #76
              If you accept and justify Russia and England support on Armenian independance, you must justify Germany resistance against it too. Otherwise it will mean you are stil continuing World War 1.

              Now i know what you are going to say ; ‘’you accept Germany resistance about the case, so you accept Germany and Ottomans destroyed Armenians ‘’

              No i dont mean it, what i mean is, Turks resisted Armenian claims , and Germany helped Turks.

              WW 1 is over.Even WW 2 is over.

              All of these conflicts on earth, why arround middle east and caspian sea region?
              15 years later, Usa will not have any oil left on its lands. China is using 1/4 of the oil that they will use 15 years later. Same need for EU,India,Japan. 78% of world energy is in this region.

              Unfortunately WW 3 looks close. I hope not. But countries jumping over the oceans and turning the world into hell. Democratic Iraq diary is 10s of death everyday for 2 years

              What i really want you know is, when you talk about democracy in Turkey, you turn us mad.

              This understanding of democracy can go to hell. Democracy to weaken the states, who dont let western exploitation and show resistance.To seperate them into pieces and create small countries to direct easier.

              Ottoman were telling you ''All Ottoman country is yours'' but you wanted to steal a part of it. Due to big countries' provokations,their fake human rights.

              In Turkey we dont have Usa's democracy, we have firstly unity,then atatürk principles. Atatürk says, turk doesnt mean ethnicity, but a will to improve the country and live together.

              You faught against us in ww1, and after ww1. We defeated you and kicked out of Turkey. While your armed actions, you caused your innocent people suffer too. Because murderer Hinchak and Dashnak committees were fed by your villages.

              If you didnt do that, you would be living here now,like many Armenians live today. With your hostile moves in diaspora, you are making your Turkey Armenians ashamed.

              **

              When you talk about genocide with your imperialist western friends, you can tell them this: ''one of the turks i met tells, you can take your democracy and get stuffed''

              Comment


              • #77
                You people are no different than your Ottoman ancestors.

                Comment


                • #78
                  do you hear anybody? It must be TomServo
                  Question to brainless diaspora freak: where are your archives?

                  Comment


                  • #79
                    winoman-
                    But you have already claimed that the Armenian genocide never happened and that I am a believer of fables. You hae made it plain that you will consider anything that acknowledges the claim of genocide as biased in favor of the Armenian position.


                    Reasonable man are not like rock, not static. He changes over time. I am serious for learning. You can change me. Sticking to fables, though they were refuted, is not virtue. I am asking you for help to help me Armenian standpoint: Documents, analysis all ok. All those Turks you quoting were once denialists, at least in their youth age. They have changed, so why dont i? One Turk believing/recognizing ArmenianGenocide is more important than many non-Turkish genocide believers.

                    You can show your diffirence by being reasonable and polite.

                    Regards.

                    Comment


                    • #80
                      Originally posted by RookieArcher
                      I thank you for the quotes above.
                      My purpose here was to learn "yourside of story and its sources".
                      Your reply above was what i expected from you before as well, not insults.
                      Please keep the level of discussion as high as this one, dont belike that of peopleyou critisize.

                      You are not talking to deaf ears. I have receptive ears and heart. I have mind and logic, i can judge what was possible what was not,therefore i can visualize in my mind what might happened and what could not be happened.

                      Give me some online list of readings that are not biased - either Turkish or Armenian bias- proof of Genocide. I will appreciate that.

                      I also appreciate recommended reading list from bell-the-cat (if he is reading this posts) whom i see as reosonable/intelligent man.

                      Regards.
                      I am sorry to say this (since I thought that your raising of the subject of the fake "genocide" in Kosovo was a legitimate point) but, after reading your later posts, I do think that you are now listening with deaf ears.

                      And it is you who have made yourself deaf.

                      Why do you accept the lies of the Turkish State, (even if they are lies done for your benefit)? Why do Turks want to live in such a "nanny state" that their delicate ears must be protected from hearing the truth about events that happened over 90 years ago? This is not a healthy condition for a nation to be in. It is YOUR history that the Turkish State is re-writing - it is YOU that it is lying to (Armenians know the truth - and the rest don't actually care much). And it is YOU, though these lies, that is being made to look (in the eyes of the world) as guilty of the Genocide as those who actually did the killing all those years ago. You should be very VERY angry at all of that! The issue for you should not simply be the fact of the Armenian Genocide, but the fact that the Turkish State has denied it for 90 years. The denial is what is affecting you, and not the actual Genocide. Remember - "A people which is cut off from its own past is far less free to choose and to act as a people than one which has been able to situate itself in history. This is why the past has now become a political issue" - John Berger, "Ways of Seeing".
                      Plenipotentiary meow!

                      Comment

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